What if Glastonbury switched to Ticketmaster and Dynamic ticket pricing????

[Toilet Duck]

On 9/2/2024 at 9:06 PM, Suprefan said:

 

have the laws changed yet..... tell me when the laws changed. Im telling you theyre going to come to some middle ground where its just about transparency. It literally just happened here.

 

we had legislation pass about "no hidden junk fees" and Ticketmaster was a prime target. Everyone thought the fees would be removed. All that happened was we are now given the total cost of tickets before we go to the pay screen. Live Nation has more lawyers than the other guys. And they have something nobody else does. Time. Is there gonna be an injunction that stops the practice? No. Cause you can appeal and continue on with your business. Just saying.

 

fyi, if you wanna know what the fees are about its for security. Onsales like Oasis dont come along that often and it would be a target of identity theft. You pay that extra money to know nobody is stealing your credit card info. ( yes, we just had a data breach, but so did See a couple years ago and we all got a nice check )

New amendment to existing legislation on ticket sales submitted in Ireland today, specifically to ban dynamic pricing. Existing law bans sale over face value (yes, injunctions were used and rapidly and it shut down the secondary ticket market overnight when it was introduced). Mistakenly, it was believed the existing law would also cover dynamic pricing as the cost is above the advertised price, however TM argued that it was still advertised prior to purchase…hence this new amendment. With political will, this can be stopped. TM’s monopoly in Ireland has also been referred to the EU (they used to make a % available via other channels but when those companies went bust they were never replaced)…anyway, let’s see how it shakes out, but may not be business as usual for much longer, at least within the EU (who have as many lawyers as TM!)…

[MilkyJoe]

6 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

New amendment to existing legislation on ticket sales submitted in Ireland today, specifically to ban dynamic pricing. Existing law bans sale over face value (yes, injunctions were used and rapidly and it shut down the secondary ticket market overnight when it was introduced). Mistakenly, it was believed the existing law would also cover dynamic pricing as the cost is above the advertised price, however TM argued that it was still advertised prior to purchase…hence this new amendment. With political will, this can be stopped. TM’s monopoly in Ireland has also been referred to the EU (they used to make a % available via other channels but when those companies went bust they were never replaced)…anyway, let’s see how it shakes out, but may not be business as usual for much longer, at least within the EU (who have as many lawyers as TM!)…

Excellent. I said on the other thread more than once that this is the only way they could do it legally, by making it unlawful to sell tickets above face value thereby leaving other industry dynamic pricing out of it.

 

The problem with this is that it is still fairly easy to circumvent. In the case of the Oasis sale, tickets weren't printed and instead digitalised so technically there was no face value.

[Toilet Duck]

2 minutes ago, MilkyJoe said:

Excellent. I said on the other thread more than once that this is the only way they could do it legally, by making it unlawful to sell tickets above face value thereby leaving other industry dynamic pricing out of it.

 

The problem with this is that it is still fairly easy to circumvent. In the case of the Oasis sale, tickets weren't printed and instead digitalised so technically there was no face value.

Think it’s “advertised face value” in the existing legislation and whether a physical ticket or not, it doesn’t matter. However dynamic pricing wasn’t specifically banned, hence this new amendment today. 

[CharlotteB]

9 hours ago, DeanoL said:

I really doubt either of them has the first clue what a dynamic price is.

 

The whole reunion has been pretty calculated so far. I'd struggle to believe they didn't know anything about pricing, or if they didn't, the ignorance was a choice.

[Suprefan]

17 hours ago, Toilet Duck said:

New amendment to existing legislation on ticket sales submitted in Ireland today, specifically to ban dynamic pricing. Existing law bans sale over face value (yes, injunctions were used and rapidly and it shut down the secondary ticket market overnight when it was introduced). Mistakenly, it was believed the existing law would also cover dynamic pricing as the cost is above the advertised price, however TM argued that it was still advertised prior to purchase…hence this new amendment. With political will, this can be stopped. TM’s monopoly in Ireland has also been referred to the EU (they used to make a % available via other channels but when those companies went bust they were never replaced)…anyway, let’s see how it shakes out, but may not be business as usual for much longer, at least within the EU (who have as many lawyers as TM!)…

Tm is still gonna end up ahead. Youll see how fast they adjust. They have contingencies for this. And see how Ireland couldnt even cover all their bases in the first place? They know how to legislate. And remember this. You will be getting rid of this pricing model, but youre not getting rid of tickets being priced higher. These politicians arent thinking far enough ahead and it shows. Youre now going to be saddled with higher face values because you got upset over one concert ticket sale. Think of the ripple effect.

 

Its like when u.s politicians were trying to get Facebook to play nice and you had people who didnt understand the internet talking to Zuckerberg.   he knew how to win with random and vague answers cause congressmen couldnt hire some 25 year olds with a computer science dlegree to  know how to navigate this sh*t. 

 

 

Liam and Noel are going to play dumb. But they knew what they were getting into. Their agents asked for a specific number and it got negotiated. None of the onsale details get swept under the rug. Look at the next sales with the ballot and everything. They organized that within 4 days of the last sales. Youre gonna tell me a reunion about a year in the making was sorted out in one afternoon of talks? No. This takes a lot of time and it was all planned exactly how they wanted. But the uk government is gonna try and get every single minute detail in hearings and out in the public so people see how this works? Fat chance. They all work hard to not let you know how the sausage is made. Its just that they need to ensure you buy it.

 

the Cure showed how any artist can be involved in every aspect of this. Shoot, even Adele was that conscious on her last tour in 2016. But then she took all the money in Vegas and in Germany. Would the Uk government have tried to stop everything if Adele had been asking £2000 to sit in the front row at a uk residency gig and fans were upset? Now thats a question right there. Its prob why she only did BST. Nobody was willing to do what she wanted in the uk and pay the same. So Vegas was the move.

Edited September 6 by Suprefan

[DeanoL]

14 hours ago, CharlotteB said:

 

The whole reunion has been pretty calculated so far. I'd struggle to believe they didn't know anything about pricing, or if they didn't, the ignorance was a choice.

They would have said we want X million and are willing to play so many gigs. That, along with the cut the promoter wants, plus all the other costs, would have determined how much money they needed to bring in from tickets.

 

Only after that point do they start looking seriously at pricing strategies. If dynamic pricing wasn't being used the face value would have been around £180 instead. That's how it works. They don't just work out how much money is needed (including everyone's fees), divide that by the number of tickets, get £150, and then Ticketmaster go "hey, do you want us to sell the last 20% for £350 and we'll give you an extra £10 million?"

 

The greed happens well before ticketing models are discussed. 

[sildante]

wrong thread

Edited September 6 by sildante

[Toilet Duck]

8 hours ago, Suprefan said:

Tm is still gonna end up ahead. Youll see how fast they adjust. They have contingencies for this. And see how Ireland couldnt even cover all their bases in the first place? They know how to legislate. And remember this. You will be getting rid of this pricing model, but youre not getting rid of tickets being priced higher. These politicians arent thinking far enough ahead and it shows. Youre now going to be saddled with higher face values because you got upset over one concert ticket sale. Think of the ripple effect.

 

Its like when u.s politicians were trying to get Facebook to play nice and you had people who didnt understand the internet talking to Zuckerberg.   he knew how to win with random and vague answers cause congressmen couldnt hire some 25 year olds with a computer science dlegree to  know how to navigate this sh*t. 

 

 

Liam and Noel are going to play dumb. But they knew what they were getting into. Their agents asked for a specific number and it got negotiated. None of the onsale details get swept under the rug. Look at the next sales with the ballot and everything. They organized that within 4 days of the last sales. Youre gonna tell me a reunion about a year in the making was sorted out in one afternoon of talks? No. This takes a lot of time and it was all planned exactly how they wanted. But the uk government is gonna try and get every single minute detail in hearings and out in the public so people see how this works? Fat chance. They all work hard to not let you know how the sausage is made. Its just that they need to ensure you buy it.

 

the Cure showed how any artist can be involved in every aspect of this. Shoot, even Adele was that conscious on her last tour in 2016. But then she took all the money in Vegas and in Germany. Would the Uk government have tried to stop everything if Adele had been asking £2000 to sit in the front row at a uk residency gig and fans were upset? Now thats a question right there. Its prob why she only did BST. Nobody was willing to do what she wanted in the uk and pay the same. So Vegas was the move.

Oh, I don't doubt that TM will be fine! Also agree that ticket pricing in general is and will be higher. AC/DC tickets were too steep at the outset, so I just thought, nah. By the time I was at the top of the queue for Oasis, they were beyond what I was willing to pay, so again, much as I would have liked to see them, I thought nah. More about transparency really, if the pricing changing during the sale can be stopped, then I know whether to bother in the first place. Would have paid the $400+ required to see U2 at the Sphere, but just missed them (was there a couple of weeks after they finished), but it would need to be something once in a lifetime like that for me to even consider shelling out that much. Otherwise, I see the price and look at other options and go see someone else instead. 

[CharlotteB]

6 hours ago, DeanoL said:

They would have said we want X million and are willing to play so many gigs. That, along with the cut the promoter wants, plus all the other costs, would have determined how much money they needed to bring in from tickets.

 

Only after that point do they start looking seriously at pricing strategies. If dynamic pricing wasn't being used the face value would have been around £180 instead. That's how it works. They don't just work out how much money is needed (including everyone's fees), divide that by the number of tickets, get £150, and then Ticketmaster go "hey, do you want us to sell the last 20% for £350 and we'll give you an extra £10 million?"

 

The greed happens well before ticketing models are discussed. 

 

It amounts to the same thing. I feel like there will have been a mathematician involved right from the start. The Oasis boys wouldn't've plucked a random number out of the air for their fee without knowing the knock on effect. 

 

Dynamic pricing has always been wrong, and the issue is only going front and centre because this is a high profile set of gigs.

[DeanoL]

2 minutes ago, CharlotteB said:

 

It amounts to the same thing. I feel like there will have been a mathematician involved right from the start. The Oasis boys wouldn't've plucked a random number out of the air for their fee without knowing the knock on effect. 

 

Maybe. Or maybe they're always said they'd do it for £10 million each and gig prices have finally caught up to where that's feasible.

 

I don't agree on dynamic pricing being inherently wrong either. Seatfiller and other such places that offer massively discounted tickets on shows that haven't sold well are another example of dynamic pricing. And they create the same unfair result: you could be sat or stood next to someone who paid 4x what you did. Yet they're broadly seen as a positive, because they offer a discount on face-value rather than an upcharge. 

 

But then "face value" is meaningless. It's just a number chosen by the promoter. And the real problem with gig prices at the moment is the way that number has increased by 200-300% over the last decade.

[CharlotteB]

12 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

Maybe. Or maybe they're always said they'd do it for £10 million each and gig prices have finally caught up to where that's feasible.

 

I don't agree on dynamic pricing being inherently wrong either. Seatfiller and other such places that offer massively discounted tickets on shows that haven't sold well are another example of dynamic pricing. And they create the same unfair result: you could be sat or stood next to someone who paid 4x what you did. Yet they're broadly seen as a positive, because they offer a discount on face-value rather than an upcharge. 

 

But then "face value" is meaningless. It's just a number chosen by the promoter. And the real problem with gig prices at the moment is the way that number has increased by 200-300% over the last decade.

 

Well I think that's just where the opinion differs, because I don't think the price should be different for the same seat. The pricing should just be fair, and people like Paul Heaton prove that the artist can control that.

[DeanoL]

On 9/6/2024 at 4:21 PM, CharlotteB said:

 

Well I think that's just where the opinion differs, because I don't think the price should be different for the same seat. The pricing should just be fair, and people like Paul Heaton prove that the artist can control that.

Blue light discount for NHS? Concessions for young/elderly/unemployed?

Presumably Glastonbury should stop offering free tickets for children?

Or is it more we have certain places we accept variable pricing and certain places we don't?

[Furq]

Anyone know who many VIP tickets Glastonbury sells these days?

[tarw]

1 hour ago, Furq said:

Anyone know who many VIP tickets Glastonbury sells these days?

Glastonbury doesn’t sell any VIP tickets!

 

There are hospitality tickets, that meant to be for the music industry, which have a separate camping area and access to office facilities in the interstage areas. 

Some hospitality tickets are given to local landowners to pay for using their land. Most of them use their allocation to have their own glamping sites which are varying degrees of VIP and price. 

 

So the festival doesn’t sell them and the total number of tickets used for VIP options area a mystery 

[incident]

1 hour ago, tarw said:

Glastonbury doesn’t sell any VIP tickets!

 

There are hospitality tickets, that meant to be for the music industry, which have a separate camping area and access to office facilities in the interstage areas. 

Some hospitality tickets are given to local landowners to pay for using their land. Most of them use their allocation to have their own glamping sites which are varying degrees of VIP and price. 

 

So the festival doesn’t sell them and the total number of tickets used for VIP options area a mystery 

 

Yep and just to add to that - Hospitality tickets are considered as Staff for the purposes of the licence, and so are separate to the 142,000 public tickets.

[DeanoL]

I mean, Glastonbury hides its upsold VIP tickets better than most - you need to know where to look to buy one - though I'm not convinced that's necessarily better.

[Jonalyn bathan]

10 hours ago, Furq said:

Anyone know who many VIP tickets Glastonbury sells these days?

Have you been sorted out with tickets yet?

[CharlotteB]

18 hours ago, DeanoL said:

Blue light discount for NHS? Concessions for young/elderly/unemployed?

Presumably Glastonbury should stop offering free tickets for children?

Or is it more we have certain places we accept variable pricing and certain places we don't?

 

That's not even remotely comparable. 

[DeanoL]

2 hours ago, CharlotteB said:

 

That's not even remotely comparable. 

No, but it means you are actually okay with people paying different money for the same seat. So that's not actually your issue. 

[gfa]

20 hours ago, Furq said:

Anyone know who many VIP tickets Glastonbury sells these days?

 

18 hours ago, tarw said:

Glastonbury doesn’t sell any VIP tickets!

 

There are hospitality tickets, that meant to be for the music industry, which have a separate camping area and access to office facilities in the interstage areas. 

Some hospitality tickets are given to local landowners to pay for using their land. Most of them use their allocation to have their own glamping sites which are varying degrees of VIP and price. 

 

So the festival doesn’t sell them and the total number of tickets used for VIP options area a mystery 

This is a massive technicality that detracts from the original question i feel (while not wrong)

 

There is a huge amount, 10s of thousands its got to be.

 

There's what 250k on site, 140k ish normal people. That leaves 90k left (80k maybe discounting sunday?)

 

There can't be more than 40k staff surely, so then would that leave 40k hospitality / vip / press etc maybe? I'm not sure but its got to be a lot (maybe i've missed something)

[incident]

1 minute ago, gfa said:

 

This is a massive technicality that detracts from the original question i feel (while not wrong)

 

There is a huge amount, 10s of thousands its got to be.

 

There's what 250k on site, 140k ish normal people. That leaves 90k left (80k maybe discounting sunday?)

 

There can't be more than 40k staff surely, so then would that leave 40k hospitality / vip / press etc maybe? I'm not sure but its got to be a lot (maybe i've missed something)

 

The licence is for 210,000 total, of which 63,000 are "Staff" tickets.

 

In this context, "Staff" covers literally every ticket type that isn't directly sold by Seetickets - so all Artists / Crew / Volunteers, all Hospitality passes, and even a nominal amount set aside to account for kids under 13.

 

Would be surprised if the Hospitality part of that totalled as high as 25k and probably is a fair bit below.

[tarw]

7 minutes ago, gfa said:

 

This is a massive technicality that detracts from the original question i feel (while not wrong)

 

There is a huge amount, 10s of thousands its got to be.

 

There's what 250k on site, 140k ish normal people. That leaves 90k left (80k maybe discounting sunday?)

 

There can't be more than 40k staff surely, so then would that leave 40k hospitality / vip / press etc maybe? I'm not sure but its got to be a lot (maybe i've missed something)

Not a massive technicality at all. It’s the answer to the question masked. The festival don’t sell any “VIP” tickets which was what was asked!

To me VIP tickets involve access to special viewing areas and bars. As far as I know the only viewing areas are one on top of the mixing desk which is for Emily’s invited guests. A lot of whom are artists agents etc that she wants to schmooze and show them what an opportunity the festival would be for them. 
A hospitality ticket might get you access to some of the crew bars but only if they’re quiet and it’s easy enough to get in anyway. 
If the question was how many glamping tickets are available then that’s different. The festival sell Worthy View and Sticklinch but those aren’t really VIP. The off-site glamping sites are not run by the festival and as the tickets are given in return for using land the numbers are not known because of commercial sensitivity. 
I think that there are far more glamping tickets than there used to be. Just look at the question section of the forum. 10 years ago there were hardly any threads about glamping, now they make up about half. 

[stuie]

Most events sell VIP tickets and although it’s a bit w*nky, it’s totally different to dynamic pricing and even tiered ticket sales. The issue here is changing the price due to demand.

[Furq]

3 hours ago, tarw said:

Not a massive technicality at all. It’s the answer to the question masked. The festival don’t sell any “VIP” tickets which was what was asked!

To me VIP tickets involve access to special viewing areas and bars...

No, no, I meant 'hospitality tickets'.

Was quite susprised when I heard about them being sold for £1000ish.
 

On the flipside, it makes sense that the number of free tickets is restricted.

 

All good.

[philipsteak]

4 hours ago, incident said:

 

The licence is for 210,000 total, of which 63,000 are "Staff" tickets.

 

In this context, "Staff" covers literally every ticket type that isn't directly sold by Seetickets - so all Artists / Crew / Volunteers, all Hospitality passes, and even a nominal amount set aside to account for kids under 13.

 

Would be surprised if the Hospitality part of that totalled as high as 25k and probably is a fair bit below.

 

It'll be traders too, which I suppose are staff just not employed by the festival and will account for a decent chunk of that number too