Cricket

[Osama Jim Laden]

Aye, Flowers instructions..

'Wrap it up quickly lads'

[kaosmark2]

Swann 151-2 (4)

Panesar 157-1 (7)

Maidens in brackets...

Like I said... Totally overstating what went down....

Now by Swanns standards that is terrible but Monty had hardly shown him up...

Edit: second innings hardly worth talking about

Monty bowled more overs:

Economy:

Swann: 3.36

Monty: 2.91

Not only that, I was emphasising that figures weren't the only part of it (Swann's stats in Aus are always worse than usual). Australia have more right-handers in their team than they did in the summer, Monty LOOKED like taking wickets even though he didn't, some of the dropped catches were off him, Swann didn't threaten at all. Jimmy and Broad have nearly identical figures and yet anyone who watched knows who bowled better.

I know exactly what you mean but as far as anyone else left to come in, he's the only one likely to make any difference.....

SHIT!!! Fucks sake Broady!!!!!!

(cont.) with bat & ball.. Maybe Rankin with more experience but not yet..

I think Finn could. Finn's a wicket-taking bowler, the problem is you've got a risk of him going at 4 an over, but if you have Stokes in the team as well then you can use Finn as a strike-bowler without it being quite as bad a risk.

[Osama Jim Laden]

I think Finn could. Finn's a wicket-taking bowler, the problem is you've got a risk of him going at 4 an over, but if you have Stokes in the team as well then you can use Finn as a strike-bowler without it being quite as bad a risk.

I can see that, if he does go for runs with no reward the selectors will be criticised..

We do need to attack, by then we'll have.....

Fucks sake! Every time I log in here another goes....

(cont.) nothing to lose though, good call.. I thought Johnson was going to be erratic & expensive but, totally wrong..

[lharris92]

the end is nigh

[kaosmark2]

I can see that, if he does go for runs with no reward the selectors will be criticised..

We do need to attack, by then we'll have.....

Fucks sake! Every time I log in here another goes....

(cont.) nothing to lose though, good call.. I thought Johnson was going to be erratic & expensive but, totally wrong..

The selectors will be criticised unless we win, and even if we do then they'll probably be some call to do something different.

Can you not log in the rest of the series then please?

That's the thing, the wickets seems to favour bowlers with a lot of pace like Johnson, Finn's our best option on that front IMO.

At least we've reached 300 now...

[lharris92]

they really need to work on that hook shot.

prior finding a bit of form as well, another positive.

now its up to the other batsmen at the top of the order to follow him and roots example.

pietersen did ok i suppose too but its the way they've been giving away wickets which is the worry

[Osama Jim Laden]

The selectors will be criticised unless we win, and even if we do then they'll probably be some call to do something different.

Can you not log in the rest of the series then please?

That's the thing, the wickets seems to favour bowlers with a lot of pace like Johnson, Finn's our best option on that front IMO.

At least we've reached 300 now...

They'll probably choose Bresnan to beef the batting too.. Finn to replace Swann? Can't see it happening..

[kaosmark2]

They'll probably choose Bresnan to beef the batting too.. Finn to replace Swann? Can't see it happening..

I agree Bresnan is more likely, but you can't win if you don't take wickets...

Your talking about dropping one of our best bowlers off the back of a slight improved (arguably) performance from someone who can't find his way to a toilet....

If Panesar had taken wickets instead of looking like taking them you might have a point.

Anyway, each to their own, but like I wouldn't of promoted Bell to three (like you wanted) I wouldn't drop someone who is largely considered to be fucking awesome when on form for someone who pretty much only ever performs at Old Trafford, has done little in this test.

I'm talking about dropping a bowler who is out of form, has consistently poor stats in Australia and favours left handers for a bowler who fractionally favours right-handers and has a good record of consistency in Australasian conditions.

I never said I wanted to promote Bell to 3, I said I expected it.

[Osama Jim Laden]

It's only worth dropping if you have something better to put in its place. Panesar simply isn't better no matter how much you want to fool yourself.

Swann looks tired though, Panesar is fresh.. Swann isn't bowling anywhere near the standard he's set

[kaosmark2]

It's only worth dropping if you have something better to put in its place. Panesar simply isn't better no matter how much you want to fool yourself.

No, Swann has a history of being better generally while Monty has a history of being better in Australia. Depending on why Swann is in poor form is the key to whether he should be dropped in favour of Monty. It could be just bad form, in which case he should absolutely play the rest of the series. It could be that because of batting failures and Cook's field-placings he hasn't got the set-up to bowl to. And if that's the case, he should keep playing. However if it's related to his surgery, or his book coming out and feeling like he's now won everything he wants to, or that Australian pitches don't suit him, then Monty should play instead.

[kaosmark2]

Only time Monty has played in Oz is 2006 is it not? That's a very long time ago... How relevant is it?

Only moderately. It's a small factor that's worth considering though because of Swann's mediocre performances in 10-11.

[Osama Jim Laden]

He didn't look tired to me... He looked out of form... And still took one more wicket than Monty...

In that case he SHOULD be dropped then, we can't carry him..

[Ed209]

I would play a spinner. It adds balance to the attack and is always a useful option, especially considering we don't really have the option of a bowling batsman to chew up a few overs (root and KP aren't up to the task). Its a fair point - I think what Swann adds to the batting (on paper) and in the field over Monty puts him ahead in the pecking order. If Monty was the better spinner by a bigger margin then it would be a different matter, but he's not.

[kaosmark2]

Something we are missing is the possibility of dropping BOTH Swann and Monty...

And another reason why we certainly need Swann is his abilities in the slip

(they just made this point on Five live)

I did suggest this a while ago, but I'd play a spinner as Ed says.

Swann's fielding is something I certainly think is an excellent argument to play him over Monty. I don't have a problem with faith being kept in Swann, as I said before, I think it depends on the reason for his poor form rather than the fact of it.

[Osama Jim Laden]

So what would your XI be for the WACA?

Agree to extent about Swann but he's so out of form, AC won't be dropped as he's captain but this has been coming, we weren't worth the 3-0 win this summer..

Although we dealt better in the 2nd innings this time, it was still only 300 runs.. We're not going to beat Aus with that..

The wicket at the WACA is renowned for being pacey, is Swann needed? I think another, albeit risky, option would be using Root as spinner & playing Bres (I think it's a certainty) & Finn..

We handled the short balls better 2nd innings but on a batsmen friendly track, it'll be horrible next test..

[kaosmark2]

Cook

Carberry

Root

KP

Bell

Stokes

Prior

Broad

Swann

Finn

Jimmy

I genuinely think we need to bring Finn in. We're chasing the series and have to take the gamble. He's the best option we have to come in and take wickets. Bresnan will keep it tight and get one or two wickets but he won't get a five-fer while Finn could. If we play Finn, it also means IMO that we're best off having another quick in the team, which means Stokes or Bresnan as an all-rounder option and now we've selected Stokes for a Test I think we should give him a short run. He bowled fairly well and wasn't particularly bad with the bat.

If we want to shore up the batting with Ballance or even Bresnan I think it has to be at the expense of a spinner. KP and Root between them could offer a bit but I still think that's a gamble. I just feel we need Finn to take wickets, but if we have him it's best to have another quick in so we can use Finn as a strike bowler in short bursts which will limit the costliness of his overs.

[Ed209]

Cook

Carberry

Root

KP

Bell

Stokes

Prior

Bresnan

Broad

Swann

Jimmy

Although I do appreciate the argument for Finn

[kaosmark2]

KP will always do stupid things and get out in stupid ways. The chance of him learning has gone now, but the talent and desire is still there. Cook's form is the big concern, but everyone apart from Stokes in our top 7 how has a 50 in this series so things don't look anywhere near as bad as they did after the first innings. The overall batting problems are a major concern though, they've been developing for a while and I think it's too ingrained to put down to just form.

My biggest worry is Swann's bowling, at 34 will he be able to find the drive and energy to reinvigorate himself and discover his best form again? I don't know.

Broad is playing well, Jimmy's doing reasonably, he's not really making mistakes just the conditions don't suit him enough to make him truly dangerous. I think the biggest problem our bowlers have had is the defensive fields, which partially come from Cook's captaincy and partially from the lack of batting runs. It's a lot easier to be aggressive when you've got runs.

I think the Aussies will win the series 3-1, I think the Ashes are gone now, but we can inject some fight and make them work for it, and if we do that enough they might collapse and who knows?

[kaosmark2]

Cook - Weight of captaincy / form

Carberry - Too early to judge

Trott - Heads gone

Root - Either fantastic or a let down. Age / experience ?

KP - Does he still want it ?

Bell - Not a worry at the moment

Stokes - Too early to judge

Prior - Form

Trott has put his hands up and the only other one I question is KP really. No one can doubt his raw talent... I just wonder if he still cares / wants it enough ?

England haven't scored 400 in their last 20 innings. It's over 2 years since we consistently had 3 batsmen in form at once.

With regard to Root, I really think he struggled being pushed up the order and not being able to build partnerships. With both Cook and Trott out of form it made it a lot harder for a new opener. It's why I've been so impressed with Carberry getting some starts given Cook/Trott/Root struggling at the top in this series. I think once Root is left in the same place in the order for a year and allowed to settle, gain better understanding of his partners he'll become a reliable performer.

Cook is the biggest worry to me, his daddy hundreds combined with Broad/Anderson/Swann being fantastic have for years masked over inconsistency elsewhere. KP's terminally inconsistent but I think he's shown his desire in his fielding this series, I just think he's making characteristic mistakes that have plagued him his whole career. I'm sure KP will get at least one century this series if not more.

[Osama Jim Laden]

Alec Stewart also saying maybe drop Swann for the WACA and leave spin up to Root/Pietersen.. I agree..

Finn is going to offer more with extra pace on that track rather than Bresnan, even though I do think it'll be him they select..

[kaosmark2]

I know the problem is our batting, but we need to take wickets to win. Not impressed with the lack of Finn.

Edited December 13, 2013 by kaosmark2

[kaosmark2]

Fucking hell, that runout throw was spectacular.

[Osama Jim Laden]

Their tail hasn't struggled against us whereas ours has..

[Osama Jim Laden]

Amazing.. Three times we've had them on the ropes now, three times they're gonna go and score big..

Only Bresnan as replacement is a strange one, AF said there will be 'changes'.. Do they have no faith in anyone else? Bresnan ain't played for months..

[TheGayTent]

Amazing.. Three times we've had them on the ropes now, three times they're gonna go and score big..

Only Bresnan as replacement is a strange one, AF said there will be 'changes'.. Do they have no faith in anyone else? Bresnan ain't played for months..

I don't think they wanted to play Bresnan but had their hands forced by how poor the other potential replacements have been in the warm up matches and Alice Springs. To have any chance of winning in Perth, we had to get a first innings lead and Finn et al aren't trusted not to concede a lot of runs.

We can moan about poor performances with the ball, but regardless you have to doff your cap to Haddin - so many runs for a No.7, and twice when coming in at a relative position of weakness for his team. Fair play...the convict bastard!