Cricket

[kaosmark2]

So, 6 wickets down before 200 is on the board, again. With only one of the top order managing 50.

McGrath, Lee, Warne et al would struggle to defend the scores England's batsmen are giving their bowlers.

Indeed.

What's the solution to sorting out our batting? I can't believe it'd be mass changes because in general these are the most talented cricketers available for England (personal preference to see James Taylor come in aside). Sack Gooch? Something with the psychologist? Practise games?

[TheGayTent]

I tend to think a lot of small things have gone wrong all at the same time. Which, if true, would mean no panic and no mass changes.

Regarding Taylor, I think he was harshly treated and I wouldn't have dropped him. However, I wouldn't bring him back now. Who for for starters? KP or Bell? Don't think so, they're just out of form they haven't suddenly become bad players. Root? If you did you're just treating him as harshly as you did Taylor. Stokes? For sure Stokes isn't a No.6 batsman as long as I have a hole in my arse, so wouldn't argue with that.

[kaosmark2]

I tend to think a lot of small things have gone wrong all at the same time. Which, if true, would mean no panic and no mass changes.

Regarding Taylor, I think he was harshly treated and I wouldn't have dropped him. However, I wouldn't bring him back now. Who for for starters? KP or Bell? Don't think so, they're just out of form they haven't suddenly become bad players. Root? If you did you're just treating him as harshly as you did Taylor. Stokes? For sure Stokes isn't a No.6 batsman as long as I have a hole in my arse, so wouldn't argue with that.

I agree, but it's not exactly been a new thing. Batting problems have plagued us for over 2 years. I just feel something has to be done to address it, but I've little idea what.

Oh I'm not advocating bringing Taylor back right now. I just think it's harsh that he didn't get a chance in any series since the SA one and that others have jumped ahead of him. Bairstow's been constantly in-and-out since and Ballance has moved ahead, when of all of them I'd have liked to see more of him. I don't think Bairstow's been treated fairly either but at least he still knows he's around the squad and will get chances. I think Root's done enough in his career so far to buy him a while before he gets dropped - 2 centuries to his name and the bad form won't have been helped by being shunted about the order. I think Stokes has partially been kept in because of the Perth heat meaning that it's more worth having that extra bowling option, I'd be surprised if he gets selected for the Sri Lanka and India home series'.

[TheGayTent]

I think upheaval is one of the reasons for the poor batting. In the last 2 years how many batsmen have played for England?

Strauss

Cook

Compton

Root

Carberry

Trott

Pietersen

Bell

Bairstow

Taylor

Stokes

Add to that the fact some of those players have been moved up or down the order and you can see why it's not been a settled side. England, and all test teams play at their best when they have a settled top six.

We're in a transitional period.

Edited December 15, 2013 by TheGayTent

[kaosmark2]

Patel played in India. I think Bopara got a Test as well since Morgan was dropped? And even that wasn't long ago - 11-12 tour of the UAE. You could arguably say Woakes as well.

Some of it has obviously been forced (Strauss' retirement, KP's messaging, Trott's illness, Bell's kid, KP's injury), but yeah, they haven't gone to anyone except Root "You're in the team for the long-term now", and even he's been shunted around constantly. Morgan was given a good run after Collingwood's retirement and rightly so, but after they dropped him they've messed around loads. I didn't feel Bopara or Patel warranted the chances they got, but they should have said to Taylor or Bairstow "You're our number 6 for 10 Tests. Claim it for 10 years".

The transitional period will extend further as well. Swann's retirement will surely come soon at the very least. We might get 3 years out of Carberry, but it's unlikely. KP 1-2 years probably. 3 out of Jimmy? Might stretch a bit longer but I can't imagine the England lineup will be that similar next time we're down under.

[kaosmark2]

Its been poor to this point but its now tipped over into embarrassing now...

How weak does the bowling attack look without Broad... Convicts knocking us all over the field.

We've been reliant on Jimmy and Swann for years. Broad has his great spells but he doesn't always perform yet Jimmy and Swann have consistently taken wickets all the time. Now everyone's out of form, the bowlers and captain don't have runs to play with, and the pitches don't suit Jimmy at all, so we haven't got anyone who can take wickets.

We definitely should have played Finn, but the main problem is our batting giving the Aussies massive 1st innings leads. They can bat freely without any concern or pressure.

[lharris92]

sigh, another day, another weak collapse.

they really need to work on their batting during the break after this series, and maybe even start looking towards the people who are to replace the current old guard. when you go 21 innings without hitting 400 when your opponents are showing its comfortable to do (even if their top order collapses they had people who stuck in there and made the score good), then there has to be a change.

now i'm not saying i know how to change it cause i don't, but the way its been going - especially in summer where the bowlers bailed out the batting in some of the tests, there needs to be something done to change the dynamics of the team.

[lharris92]

some improvement today (batting wise), but just can't see us salvaging this game, a few of the wickets were given away needlessly again. saying that stokes has done well.

as for tonight when they come out to bat, stokes and prior need to be sensible and get through the new ball as well. whether they can or not is a different matter.

the bowling at the start, well they were always going to struggle without broad but to get whacked around like that was poor

Edited December 16, 2013 by lharris92

[kaosmark2]

Impressive from Stokes though, to get a score with everyone around him failing.

[Osama Jim Laden]

I'm impressed with stokes too, needed an anchor or two and he's stepped up..

Can't see it lasting too long today.. Don't think it'll be 5-0 whitewash either..

Vaughan was talking about Carberry sticking round for a few years, makes sense..

Similar to what Aus done with Rogers, get a nice opening pair (AC fault wrong at the mo' but he'll be back) and build from there..

[kaosmark2]

For sure Stokes isn't a No.6 batsman as long as I have a hole in my arse, so wouldn't argue with that.

I think Stokes has partially been kept in because of the Perth heat meaning that it's more worth having that extra bowling option, I'd be surprised if he gets selected for the Sri Lanka and India home series'.

Eating my words.

[Paul ™]

Home

[TheGayTent]

Melbourne.

[TheGayTent]

Still don't think he is - scoring a century doesn't change that.

[kaosmark2]

Still don't think he is - scoring a century doesn't change that.

A good century in tough conditions with wickets falling around him though.

[TheGayTent]

A good century in tough conditions with wickets falling around him though.

A very good century - albeit with little pressure on

[kaosmark2]

A very good century - albeit with little pressure on

Definitely earned the right to prove us wrong over a longer period of time, I didn't really rate him before either but I'd be happy to be shown up if he can keep delivering like that in different circumstances. And he's a useful seam option.

[TheGayTent]

Definitely earned the right to prove us wrong over a longer period of time.

And he's a useful seam option.

Agreed.

[TheGayTent]

Wowzers - I wouldn't have worded quite like that but I almost 100% agree with Bazza!

I don't think his place is under threat anyway. KP will not play for England because he has a(nother) fall out with his teammates/management or he retires.

[kaosmark2]

Wowzers - I wouldn't have worded quite like that but I almost 100% agree with Bazza!

Snap.

[kaosmark2]

Fuck off Agnew:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/25414580

"The views of those connected with first-class cricket should be listened to, as well as those of the media, the people who have watched England play over the last few years.

We write on this team every day. Sometimes we are right, sometimes we are wrong, but we do watch a lot of cricket and can offer an opinion on the direction in which England should go. Ultimately, there will have to be lessons learned from this tour."

Trying to say that those in the ECB who try and sort out England should listen to the media is absolutely ridiculous. While I have a lot of time for the BBC's cricket coverage I don't think they or any other outlet should be able to have any influence or say on the way to manage things. Their job is reporting, if they want to be involving with that side of things they need to resign their current job and apply, not hide in the armchair and try and dictate decisions without having responsibility when they're wrong.

[lharris92]

on the view of kp above - I agree with 99% of it. the only thing that makes me counter it (even this is a weak argument) is that if the team has had its back against the walls and you are under constant barrage then you be a bit more patient than you normally are. the way that he got out several times in a row with a hook/pull shot showed that the aussies had done their homework well and baited him into his attacking shots.

but as said above when you have your backs against the walls like that you do need to be positive so that throws the view out of the window. was he too positive/reckless though is the question to be asking. wouldn't drop him though.

as for the next two games, they should try and go out there and be positive and try and brush the previous results under the carpet until the end of the series when they can assess it properly.

[lharris92]

swann retired with immediate effect.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/25481772

personally think its silly to do it mid series but oh well.

favourite part of what i've read about it:

"So now with the series beyond our reach I have just brought forward the decision by a couple of matches."

so if we were still in the series it would have been as soon as the series was won by either team.

leaves you to wonder who'll be a long term replacement.

[kaosmark2]

Great player for us. I've been critical of him this series, and wondered if his heart was still in it, but no question he's earned the right to make the decision himself.

[Ed209]

His average is 29.96 ... wonder if that any influence on his decision

More likely is Flower had a conversation which went something along the lines of, you're not playing the next test, I'm giving you the option of retiring before being dropped.

Either way, fantastic servant to English test cricket. A spin bowler of both his defensive and wicket taking standards, along with being a great slip fielder and able to knock a few runs too, is not an easy cricket to find. He's going to leave a gaping hole in the team.