am i the only one who hopes

[greeneyes1980]

retired, sorry.

It might have included wages, but he had been done by Prost at Ferrari, and he knew it would have happened again at Williams.

[oafc0000]

Who is this "we"? I'm part Italian. And Austrian. And English. Well, if South Shields is in England. I've got relatives in France, Austria and Spain. I'm quite happy about that to be honest. It allows me to look down upon petty squabbling over which bit of artifical contructed national boundry and realise it's just another con - another trick - used by the establishment to keep you in your place. I'm also happy about this becasue it means I get very cheap holidays.

Edited August 5, 2008 by oafc0000

[King Blue]

You miss my point.

Firstly, would you say this of say the wurling durbishes? Or the Buddhist monks?

Secondly, despite everyone being of the same nationless global culture, we were all born of different cultures and traditions, which have an impact upon our contemporary attitudes and values. It's simply recognising people's cultural difference. This is entirely different to someone being nationalistic.

[oafc0000]

hhhhm maybe but lets face it the paycheck he was gonna get going to indy car racing as a F1 legend was massive

did he join Newman/Hass?

[oafc0000]

Thats what I agree with,and thats what I'm implying. Us English broadly share the same attitudes and values with Scots these days. I don't see there as being a large cultural difference between us and the Scots. 'Us' is a broad term as well actually.I'd say I have as much in common with my fellow 'countryman' from Sunderland as I do with a bloke from Glasgow.

Edited August 5, 2008 by oafc0000

[worm]

Essentially(And I mean these days.Maybe I should use the word broadly.)I don't feel like I share much in common with people from Newcastle for example. But we speak the same language,watch the same films,read the same books,eat similar food,look fairly similar. I agree with what your saying,but I mean in comparison with other cultures,England and Scots aren't that dissimilar these days,broadly speaking.

Edited August 5, 2008 by worm

[sifi]

hhhhm maybe but lets face it the paycheck he was gonna get going to indy car racing as a F1 legend was massive

Edited August 5, 2008 by sifimaster

[Peevis]

lol...the we is everyone who is English, Welsh and Scotish and who isnt Italian

used by the establishment to keep you in your place

lol, I love loonies like you The big evil goverment sat there trying to keep people like you down Its for your own good!

[Radar]

I don't believe in patriotism.Simple as. The only thing I am patriotic about is the system of governance actually . As in,equality,democracy etc that this country is based upon. I feel patriotism promotes a false sense of pride in things you have no influence over and no bearing over.You are simply born in a place.To accept pride in what my nation has done for the good means I have to accept the negatives as well,and for me,most countries negatives outweigh their positives.A bleak outlook,but one that works for me.I don't feel I belong with any one nation.That is a massive amount of people you are talking about,most of whom I have **** all in common with.I feel I belong to my mates,my family.Thats what I'm proud of. I choose my own alleigances.

Fair enough Welsh and Scots feel like they have little in common and resort to a collective sense of pride. Possibly because I am English,I don't feel the need.I just think broad patriotism is a bit silly,which is why I love it when England fail at football .

[worm]

I don't think that is true. From my recollection he performed - or tried to perform - overtaking maneouvres that others would not dare. Berger on the Peralta in 1990 springs immediately to mind. Brilliant maneouvre. Rember it?

Edited August 5, 2008 by worm

[sifi]

It was a witty retort.

Edited August 5, 2008 by sifimaster

[Radar]

It allows me to look down upon petty squabbling over which bit of artifical contructed national boundry and realise it's just another con - another trick - used by the establishment to keep you in your place.

[King Blue]

No one in the world is entirely dissimilar due to global culture, the english language and modernism. Modernism being the cut off from tradition. But there are still local cultures that exist aside this global culture and act as resistence to it. This is not nationalism, it's simply communities holding to their own local traditions and heritage.

[greeneyes1980]

Even if it was the pay check....so what If I was driving a car around a track at around 200mph risking my life I would go where ever the money was greenist

Edited August 5, 2008 by greeneyes1980

[oafc0000]

You misunderstand his point. Completely.

hHe's saying that countries are artifically constructed to give the establishment something to rule. England was constructwed as it is for the benefit of the ruling classes. As was any country. They then make plebs like you swallow down big globules of nationalistic spadge to justify the fact that they are in charge.

[Radar]

He's saying that countries are artifically constructed to give the establishment something to rule. England was constructwed as it is for the benefit of the ruling classes. As was any country. They then make plebs like you swallow down big globules of nationalistic spadge to justify the fact that they are in charge.

[worm]

No-one in the world?What about those who live outside our spectrum of life,like an innuit who lives on the ice in Canada?

[oafc0000]

Senna did things no one else would dare to do. It was what defined him as apart from the rest.

[Peevis]

You're patriotic about our system of governance... wow. What, because this is the ideal, nay the only right way. I expect you think we should impose it everywhere as well?

Yes it is a bleak outlook. We simply disagree - I believe (as Take That unfortunately sang) you should never forget where you're coming from. Your roots matter - you cannot divorce yourself or your family from their roots. If you know who you are, you know that the places you and they came from and the experiences which you and they have had will inevitably but happily shape and characterise the person that you are.

It's not "a last resort" as you patronisingly imply. I think as an Englishman you are probably right not to be patriotic - we all know what godawful people English patriots tend to be. Perhaps this is why you cannot understand that it is different for our respective Celtic nations. It is not about chest thumping and racist chants, lager and football hooliganism. Incidentally I don't deny you have a perfect right not to care about football. Though this isn't about sport either anymore, I think we've moved away from that.

[sifi]

No one in the world is entirely dissimilar due to global culture, the english language and modernism.

[worm]

Italy has a notable difference in culture,even if it is not entirely dissimilar.

Edited August 5, 2008 by worm

[sifi]

Senna did things no one else would dare to do. It was what defined him as apart from the rest.

[worm]

No one in the world is entirely dissimilar due to DNA

[oafc0000]

Yes, and within Italy there are notable differences. You can extend this as far reaching as you like until you come to what we call global culture, or retract this until you come to one individual. The national boundary and national identity is completely fabricated in terms of culture and cultural identity.

What you mainly see about Italian culture is a stereotype or a foil. This is how nationalism and national identity works.

[ben_cosmia]

so, this andy murray guy...