Beer tent clearance on Sunday night

[barbienightmare]

If the dogs are trained that is EXACTLY what they would not do. Trained dogs will only attack or bark to ward off on command. From the evidence presented these dogs were not trained. In addition why take dogs into a confined space. In fact why the f**k use dogs at all.

[barbienightmare]

. THEY were the people that should have been in control, and they should know dogs and people under the influence do not mix.

[barbienightmare]

That was my fifth and last Endorse It, for me it was spoilt on Friday evening when entering the main arena. I was searched on the gate, I don't object to a quick check for weapons or concealed bottles etc. but this was unnecessarily aggressive, rude and intimidating. I don't know why I was singled out for this treatment (maybe the Pronghorn T shirt made me look like trouble), had it been carried out with a smile, a please or maybe a thank-you afterwards I wouldn't have minded, but it wasn't, it was rude and aggressive.

Edited August 12, 2008 by barbienightmare

[Loodlini]

"

how rude exactly was it ? or was it they were abrupt and to the point to get the search done quickly so they can move on to the next?

mabey they should give everyone a balloon who passes the search ? "

No. No balloons. But I paid good money to enjoy myself, and not get spoken to like the poop on someone's shoes. No. No balloons, but I've been to loads of gigs and footie matches and festivals, and this IS NOT the norm. Mostly, security companies teach their staff to be courteous and positive. It's part of their legal training. It inflames things if they don't act as equals, as must, I'm sure, occurred to you during the build up of this thread.

I suggest you weren't there last year, or the year before, or the year before that, etc, etc, to see a perfectly happily balanced festival, security wise, and in all other ways.

I'm 42. I am responsible for a family and a career. So no, no balloons. Just no unfair meanness and thuggery. thank you so much.

Edited August 12, 2008 by Loodlini

[pendleton_girl]

...I'm signed in as my wife (lost my password!) so Cybertec writing....

First and last Endorse-it for me, didn't have much interaction with security, but noticed the handcuffs and was puzzled. My problem was with the shambolic organisation all around....it just got worse the further from the entrance you got....as my wife has written the campervan field was a nightmare....the 'search' at the entrance obviously failed to pick up the generator and speakers for the (crap) 'sound system' that kept most of us awake during Friday night

.....On a lighter note the 'legal highs' being advertised on a board in the 'campervan area' was one of the funniest things i've seen in many a year of festival going (though i'm sure they didn't know they were being ironic)....and they were offering poker games, damned near pissed myself laughing....AS IF....

Flounder you are the 'spokeman' for this festival..WTF was going on...was it a money thing? it hadn't sold out , so corners were cut?

And to Elf....you did the right thing in the late night tent.

[mentalista]

yes surley only ugly people should be searched........

a couple of minuets of your time , like everyone else who happened to get searched for the saftey of you and me and everyone was such an inconvenience I can see your complaint ... ?

how rude exactly was it ? or was it they were abrupt and to the point to get the search done quickly so they can move on to the next?

mabey they should give everyone a balloon who passes the search ?

At the age of 39 I've some experience of authority figures, I've lived on the road & done the old festivals before ravers, E, K, heavy handed security and associated bull***t spoilt it all. I've been searched by Policemen on the street and off it, I've been searched at football matches, I've been asked to show the contents of my pockets/bag at the entrance to venues, I've no problem with this when it is carried out professionally (and I totally understand the point about everyone's safety), I'm not usually aggressively man-handled after co-operating. The point is after being encouraged to complain by stewards I attempted to do so, suggesting it could be carried out in a more courteous and friendly way so as not to create tension and the reply I received made it clear that courteous and friendly weren't on the agenda (unlike the previous 4 Endorse Its) and the way I was being stared at by the nearby band of gorillas added to the intimidation.

If it had only been a couple of minuets of my time I wouldn't have minded but he didn't ask for a dance, I never said I wasn't ugly and maybe they should have given out balloons, then the other "security" operatives could smile at us for passing the search...

[William of Walworth]

I wasn't there, but barbie's take on this seems very skewed to me. 'Hats off' to the man who knocked her down, WTF? Blaming people for not being keen on dogs being there? Why on earth are you making excuses for there being dogs there AT ALL? Their very presence is UTTERLY UNNECESSARY and a standing provocation, surely? (Handcuffs too -- entirely unneeded). And as Planet Dave says, dogs serve NO constructive purpose. I can't remember the last festival where I saw security with ANY -- and I've been to some with some pretty tough and uncompromisising security.

Barbie, you also seem to be blaming the punters -- well no doubt there were a few lairy drunken folks there, reluctant to leave, there were some at my last 3 Endorse Its too. I'm making no excuses for arseholeism, fencejumpers, pisstakers, etc.. nor (as you rather stupidly are implyng of Planet Dave and others) am I pretending that everyone there would have been sweet and innocent and blameless. But there are ways and ways to handle them. IMO dogs are NOT the way. I have never seen ANYONE come close to kicking off at my previous EiiDs. Perhaps harder core security than was in any way necessary, badly trained (by the sound of it) to boot, and with fierce scary, provocative dogs, might have inflamed/escalated the situation? Why (in the OP's account) did the two doghandlers' boss have to calm them down?

And what's with your utterly stupid and irrelevant reference to guns and knives? At small festivals like this? You're having a laugh, Endorse It isn't Hackney or Peckham or Moss Side.

I'm returning to EiiD next year, but I'm looking forward to some strong reassurance from Flounder that dogs will NOT be re-employed, and that Security will resume their low key, friendlier, less in yer face approach that seemed to work JUST FINE back in 2006 and 2007. Surely in the instances where Security do need to be tough (which I accept will happen) they can handle things better and without dogs?

I know some people -- some of who are my friends and who I trust -- are saying this year that security was fine, and I know plenty had a fine old time at the Fest with no bother. But this story is very disturbing, even when you allow for the OP's post being just one account.

I'm glad this and other complaints are being investigated seriously, respect to Flounder and the organisers for doing this.

Edited August 12, 2008 by William of Walworth

[elfskin]

lol! sounds all a little bit too dramatised..

If there is a dog handler, security , police, military which ever then unless your a complete idiot then its obvious thet any sudden moment , aproach toward the dog is going to result in the dog going for you, its wht there trained to do.... wave around on the end of the lead and bite anything that moves basicaly, they bark and snarl and jump and normal people put 2 + 2 together and come up with 4 and know to back off.

[William of Walworth]

people are so quick to moan about security ...but Ive not read about any murders at endorset or muggings or 50 dead partyers from too much of something they took ... or even riots , so I think the security must have been doing a bit of what there paid too at least?

[William of Walworth]

At the age of 39 I've some experience of authority figures, I've lived on the road & done the old festivals before ravers, E, K, heavy handed security and associated bull***t spoilt it all. I've been searched by Policemen on the street and off it, I've been searched at football matches, I've been asked to show the contents of my pockets/bag at the entrance to venues, I've no problem with this when it is carried out professionally (and I totally understand the point about everyone's safety), I'm not usually aggressively man-handled after co-operating. The point is after being encouraged to complain by stewards I attempted to do so, suggesting it could be carried out in a more courteous and friendly way so as not to create tension and the reply I received made it clear that courteous and friendly weren't on the agenda (unlike the previous 4 Endorse Its) and the way I was being stared at by the nearby band of gorillas added to the intimidation.

Edited August 12, 2008 by William of Walworth

[mentalista]

Thank you William.

[Flounder]

i wasn't there at all..................and i am always suspicious of a first post on here like yours.

[rosemarymagpie]

Major Fail in Logic skilz there barbie.

No-one's saying security shouldn't search or keep an eye out for bother.

But have them be lower key, politer, less lairy (as they were in 2006, 2007 -- and without dogs and handcuffs) and there'll be muggings, 50 dead, riots?

Yer talking utter shite.

[Cybertec]

Flounder....you seem to be ducking a lot of the issues here, concentrating on the admittedly serious and worrying allegations.....however the FACT that the organisers deemed it suitable to allow ANY security dogs on site at a festival that has hitherto had no problems, let alone to let the security personnel wander about with handcuffs, (which they may not use legally) has to be addressed..the 'Campervan Chaos' thread REQUIRES a reply...it was a total f•cking shambles.

This is the first festival I have ever taken my wife along to where I was worried about her wandering about without me.

As for the 'incident book' - who writes it?...will there be any statements from punters present?

Where were the real police? - don't believe I saw one all weekend....

[Rufus Gwertigan]

That does cut both ways - look at the joining date of the people making the allegations - the report also ties in with what security have said. However, I want this cleared up and in order for this to be sorted, both sides have to be heard fairly and would be appreciative if posts like "we squared off to them and fought the goons" - or whatever words were used weren't put up - it just makes you sound as aggressive as the allegations against security and really isn't helping your point to be put forward. I need clear information over this and thanks to everyone who has posted with whatever take on the situation.

[eFestivals]

Flounder....you seem to be ducking a lot of the issues here, concentrating on the admittedly serious and worrying allegations.....however the FACT that the organisers deemed it suitable to allow ANY security dogs on site at a festival that has hitherto had no problems, let alone to let the security personnel wander about with handcuffs, (which they may not use legally) has to be addressed..the 'Campervan Chaos' thread REQUIRES a reply...it was a total f•cking shambles.

This is the first festival I have ever taken my wife along to where I was worried about her wandering about without me.

As for the 'incident book' - who writes it?...will there be any statements from punters present?

Where were the real police? - don't believe I saw one all weekend....

Please give Flounder a break here - while the likes of you and me have returned to our normal lives, people such as him still have lots of work to do in dismantling the festival. I'm sure he'll give more time to these issues here when he has that time and when he feels he has all the available facts to hand so that he's not having to guess at bits he might not otherwise have to guess at.

While I understand that people feel there were some issues - and I'm not trying to lessen those - please do try to keep things in some sort of perspective. The dogs with security were on site all weekend yet there appears to have been only this one issue.

Outside of that, and ignoring the fact that security people can very often be grumpy arseholes whichever firm they're from and whichever festival they're at (and this is no different from all of us when at work sometimes), were they really so bad?? The only time I saw them getting involved with anything all weekend was in helping deal with people in need of medical help, and where they acted certainly no worse than I would have expected and actually a lot better than might have been expected when considering that they were sometimes dealing with people that might not have been acting in any predictable manner. They certainly didn't make any of my friends both male and female worried about what they might do.

[sazzled]

As I said before, if they were meant to be clearing us out, where were we meant to go? The tent was done up with two exits containing snarling dogs.

Approaching an aggressive dog is a stupid thing to do, but it is quite obvious that if people have been partying for 3 days there will be a real risk of something happening.

The dogs scared me and there was no way I was going anywhere near them, but I kind of hoped that they were trained to merely threaten and that the handler was in control. If they were as you say about to rip her arm off then there is no way they should be there. They should have warned people like me that this may happen. I obviously realise that dogs can be trained to rip peoples arms off, but not by professional security firms whom I believed they were.

And as for the issue about us being asked to clear out I would be happy to swear in court that I heard or saw noone. Yet had heard people the previous two nights when there were more people in there.

Security was weak and friends in Crew camping had people wondering in breaking in to there vans and stuff. Not good when they are known to be working on site till 3am. I can understand them wanting to bring in support but I guess they were (over) prepared for trouble and when they couldn't find it descended on a small gathering of people.

I guess the best thing we can all do is give feedback on where we saw security issues failing so that they can improve next year.

[rosemarymagpie]

Flounder....you seem to be ducking a lot of the issues here, concentrating on the admittedly serious and worrying allegations.....however the FACT that the organisers deemed it suitable to allow ANY security dogs on site at a festival that has hitherto had no problems, let alone to let the security personnel wander about with handcuffs, (which they may not use legally) has to be addressed..the 'Campervan Chaos' thread REQUIRES a reply...it was a total f•cking shambles.

This is the first festival I have ever taken my wife along to where I was worried about her wandering about without me.

As for the 'incident book' - who writes it?...will there be any statements from punters present?

Where were the real police? - don't believe I saw one all weekend....

[William of Walworth]

Please give Flounder a break here - while the likes of you and me have returned to our normal lives, people such as him still have lots of work to do in dismantling the festival. I'm sure he'll give more time to these issues here when he has that time and when he feels he has all the available facts to hand so that he's not having to guess at bits he might not otherwise have to guess at.

Edited August 12, 2008 by William of Walworth

[eFestivals]

I just thought the issues raised -- even if isolated from the general run of how security were -- sounded worryingly different from previus 2 years,a nd tat barbie;s comments were tad arseholeish to say the least.

my own experience of security this year was that they were much better than two years ago. I wasn't bothered by them once, and every time I saw them around they were doing nothing I felt they shouldn't be.

And I guess what can be drawn from that is regardless of what anyone sees at any fest, another person's experience might well be vastly different. While the dogs incident sounds unpleasant, I'd guess that was an experience for a relatively small number of people and not typical for most attendees.

As for the campervan toilets thing, I've heard a number of different reasons why it happened and they can't all be true, so I won't try to presume which might be the correct one. I'd guess that at the end of the day it was a huge cock-up by someone somewhere who didn't join up all the necessary dots, cos I'm sure it wasn't done as any cost saving (there were more than enough loos around elsewhere on site, so it doesn't seem like skimping). Other festivals might not listen or try to do better next time, but I'm sure EIID will do.

Edited August 12, 2008 by eFestivals

[Cybertec]

I'm more than happy to give Flounder 'a break', hadn't realised he was actively involved int he takedown, so apologies due. However the campervan field shambles is not excusable on the grounds that there were 'plenty of toilets' elsewhere on site.....the fact is people were s•itting in/next to campervan walkways, to me the 'obvious' two reasons were.

a. the two toilets weren't even adequate for 'campervans only' a lot of which have on board facilities...

b. allowing the car campers access to this area vastly overloaded the limited capacity.....

I'm sure Flounder and co will do there best to improve the situation for next year, however they have left this first time customer (and by the sound of it a fair few others) not wishing to return.

[Flounder]

Right - I've spoken to both security and the festival managers. The reason everything is taking so long is I'm having to do it in a mixture of the library pc and my own - I am not ducking issues, just prioritising - apologies if it appeared that way. Efestivals will be able to confirm this, as the IP addresses used are displayed in the top right corner of each post and should be different

Firstly and let there be no doubt - the dogs were not authorised by EiiD to be used on the site for clearance .

Cybertec - there were previous problems with undesirable elements, you just weren't aware of them as they were dealt with and were off the actual arenas. The police were on site at varying times. I have no idea why security had handcuffs - however the issue with the dogs has had to take priority

Dave - I'm not disputing Elfskin's experience and I do recognise the name from elsewhere. However, we have to be able to hear everyones opinion, no matter when they joined efestivals. To be suspicious of someone with a post of one, whilst taking the opinion of another with a similarly low posting rate as gospel, is hugely biased. If we didn't care, we wouldn't be going to all this trouble.

This is what security have told us. Dogs were to patrol the perimeter - they were fully trained with experienced handlers. This was for staff and punters protection and also for the local residents. The reason security used the dogs in the bar, was because various incidents were kicking off at that point that required immediate attention. For example, despite being very clear about no naked flames on all our literature, someone was letting off fireworks in the wheat field - there were other incidents occuring which are standard for the last night of any festival when people have been drinking all weekend - the point is that they were all at once, as the site was being shut down.

Security had asked several times for the bar to be cleared, had met resistance of an unpleasant sort and made a decision to bring the dogs in. A lady in the bar went to pat one of the dogs and was told on 3 occasions not to come near the dog. She then lunged/slipped towards the dog and the guard pushed her back to keep her away from the dog. People then took this to be an assault and a situation developed, which was dealt with by one of the guards calming everyone down and diffusing the situation.

Endorse it as previously recognised, has a good reputation, and we take the safety of everyone from customers to local residents very seriously. Rest assured that we are and will carry on looking into this and other issues, to ensure that they never happen again. What is gutting is that there has been upset caused and until made aware of this, the festival had been the most successful yet - I've had more people shaking me by the hand and saying what a great time they're having than frankly I would have ever expected.

I won't be posting on this issue again unless there is any more news, as I honestly don't think there's anything else I can constructively do on-line. What I do ask again though , is that if you have any first hand information, from any perspective, please email the festival and we will be able to keep a file going. This issue will be a priority at the first festival breakdown meeting.

Thankyou for the contributions.

[Interface]

What a wicked wonderful weekend - and I am so glad that I paid for 2 tickets and camper van to be bullied by intensive in your face security! I work really hard and was looking forward to a peaceful weekend meeting up with friends that I had not seen since last year. That’s all- Endorset is one of best festies left in the UK - this time it was not!!! The vibe was there but unfortunate I do not want to be oppressed or feel like I am in a prison. Every time I saw your security I put my hands up to show that I had nothing in them? I do not want to have feel like that - and I do not want my children to do that either.

I mean - When has anybody every been stabbed at Endorset- does this mean that this is NO LONGER a family festival. Should those with children BE WARNED that Endorset has a knife problem! and the dogs!! I will not recommend anyone to bring their children on to a site that is patrolled by incompetent security staff with vicious animals - a dog can rip a Childs face to shreds in second!!!!.

Unlike last year and the year before I felt that the security 2008 were looking for trouble.

I witnessed 3 incidences that were rough handled. I saw one guy on the Sunday evening - young chap we had been talking to him earlier that day soft spoken . 5 security staff got hold of him around 10.00pm by the main stage and I honestly thought they were going to break his back. I have 5 years medic training! He was bent facing up over a half fence two of the security had his legs held down on the floor and two others were pulling him backwards- this is really unacceptable behaviour even the police are NOT allowed to do this. Four individuals ran to his aid they equally concerned for his back (broken spines do not fix you know) The security were aggressive and really quite abusive - they pulled this poor lad up flicked him over and put handcuffs on him and wrenched his arms up his back - and dragged him away?

I mean did he have a gun or a knife - what would make security act in such a way - come on!

Handcuffs and pepper spray - ????????????????????? Will it be TEAR GAS CANISTORS, TAZORS crowd control next year?? –What about riot shields and watchtowers??

Who are we being protected from - did you expect an attack of some description? How come the festie down the road do not have those problems - they have subtle security who are there to try and make everyone have a nice time not to try and spoil their fun.

Roll up Roll up 75.00 for getting a beating - hmmmmmm see the bands through the swollen slits once known as eyes courtesy of ESP security - sorry it was that bad.!

ENDORSET what are you endorsing ? what should we do next year - should I bring a STAB vest to protect myself just in case the security decide that they should leap on me. Perhaps we should all look to the ground - no jumping up to the music no clapping (could be misconstrued) Scary mean men - out to cause trouble! These are those we do not want at our festival isnt it!!

What is really ironic in you main programme the pages that showed the line up - your background picture is of riot police storming a social building- is this where you got your idea from I wonder!

Sorry but is the truth I speak!!

[Flounder]

Pepper spray? Stabbings???? What ARE you talking about?????

The incident I will make sure is looked into, but as I've said before, alarmist posts will be taken for what they are and disregarded. Clear information however will be gratefully received.

[elfskin]

That does cut both ways - look at the joining date of the people making the allegations - the report also ties in with what security have said. However, I want this cleared up and in order for this to be sorted, both sides have to be heard fairly and would be appreciative if posts like "we squared off to them and fought the goons" - or whatever words were used weren't put up - it just makes you sound as aggressive as the allegations against security and really isn't helping your point to be put forward. I need clear information over this and thanks to everyone who has posted with whatever take on the situation.