I am very sad to be the bearer of bad news.

[Pinhead]

A good post that reminds me why I love this site, its members and Glastonbury - there are seemingly fewer such forums for such free thinking conbinations of people and their institutions these days.

[William of Walworth]

A good post that reminds me why I love this site, its members and Glastonbury - there are seemingly fewer such forums for such free thinking conbinations of people and their institutions these days.

Edited January 1, 2009 by William of Walworth

[glastoman417]

+1

[TalkShow Bob]

An utterly brilliant post

[eFestivals]

*They now run a fair trade line, have massively cut their environmental impact and put all the money they stole off of ethiopia back into development in the country.

1. their fair trade line is a frigging joke. It's far from being REAL fair-trade, it's simply a corporate trying to undermine the real fair-trade traders.

2. they continue to encourage people in 3rd world countries to buy their powdered baby milk (the original reason for the boycott), which ultimately results in undernourished children.

The big problem with the left in the UK is that we can never admit when we have won

The big problem is that the left hasn't won.

[TalkShow Bob]

1. their fair trade line is a frigging joke. It's far from being REAL fair-trade, it's simply a corporate trying to undermine the real fair-trade traders.

2. they continue to encourage people in 3rd world countries to buy their powdered baby milk (the original reason for the boycott), which ultimately results in undernourished children.

The big problem is that the left hasn't won.

[Alcatraz]

Of course the left hasnt won but its on top. Look at the right, the Tories have gone further left than labour have moved right. We have lost our voice but so have they. Now I know its not a strait out war between the two factions but on the whole thats more of a step to the left than a step to the right.

[TalkShow Bob]

So now all three major parties are centrist...

[glastoman417]

That baby milk thing is verging on racist. Ohh those poor folks in Africa cant understand, like we can because its global branding and global advertising, that the baby milk isn't as good as breast milk for there kids.

[TalkShow Bob]

It's not racist to state a fact, namely that rates of illiteracy is much higher in the developing world than in developed countries. Where illiteracy is high, people need more protection from unscrupulous marketeers, but instead they exploiot lax laws e.g. dressing up sales staff in medical gowns posing as doctors giving medical advice - despite it breaking the voluntary code. Something they would not get away with in developed nations.

One of the issues Mark Thomas raised in his tv program was that in Nestle's native Switzerland they put warnings in English, French, German and Italian, but in Africa they only labelled in English, despite the fact that many of those who can read, can only understand Africanse. Clearly intentional.

The whole of the UK voting either Labour or Tory would make very little difference to anything these days as they are both singing from pretty much the same hymn sheet. The whole country boycotting Nestle products would force them to change their ways or go under (the UK is a small part of the global market, but the negative publicity would be enormous).

So yes, not buying a pack of fruit pastilles won't make any difference on it's own, but you can say the same thing about voting.

Edited January 5, 2009 by TalkShow Bob

[cogstar]

Can I just not eat the yellow ones as a small protest

[Alcatraz]

As I was not old enough to object to Nestles past, I still buy their products when I have to. Same goes with Coke

[TalkShow Bob]

As I was not old enough to object to Nestles past, I still buy their products when I have to. Same goes with Coke

[Peaceman]

You might want to have a look at Mark Thomas' new book on Coca Cola. Murderous indeed.

I agree with some of TalkShow Bob's post - we very rarely celebrate or acknowledge our victories unless they are way back in the past. And IF companies change then we should support them. But Dorlomin's post is brilliant! I could add so much about the SWP, they really are shit to try to work with and are often a mirror image of those on the right.

[Alcatraz]

You might want to have a look at Mark Thomas' new book on Coca Cola. Murderous indeed.

I agree with some of TalkShow Bob's post - we very rarely celebrate or acknowledge our victories unless they are way back in the past. And IF companies change then we should support them. But Dorlomin's post is brilliant! I could add so much about the SWP, they really are shit to try to work with and are often a mirror image of those on the right.

[glastoman417]

Africanse? I presume you mean Afrikaans?

[TalkShow Bob]

I stand corrected, I suffer from a bit of Illiteracy myself!

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying they get away with marketing practices in those countries that they wouldn't get away with in developed countries. They exploit their weaknesses and I choose not to give my money to such a company.

There are many other reasons why I don't buy Nestle products. The agressive blokes I came across in an ad agency who were screaming at some poor girl because they wanted 2 year olds to recognise Milky Bars, their promises to keep the blue riband factory in Glasgow open when they bought Rowntrees, and quickly broke their promise - they can make them where they like, but they shouldn't expect me to buy them. Sueing the Ethiopian government at time of famine etc.

>Yes illitracy is high but it dosent mean common sence

Sense, this illitracy is catching!

>The point about buying fruit pastilles was that Nestle have changed there ways

So they say, but they would say that. Profits are at stake.

The thing is, I've never been to Africa, perhaps Baby Milk Action are spinning us a lot of crap and Nestle really are this nice innocent corporation being bullied.

But ask yourself this, if Baby Milk Action have said a single thing that they don't have proof of, then don't you think Nestle have the budget to get the worlds best laywers on the case, and crush Baby Milk Action like a bug and quosh the boycott once and for all?

>and there are other people that need to be boycotted nowadays but no one will because there to buisy >drinking their coke and having a go at me for eating a kitkat.

This is very true, but Nestle have possibly one of the worst track records, and they are the worlds biggest conglomerate, so lets start at the top and work our way down!

Do you think Nestle got involved in Fair Trade because they wanted to do the "right thing", or because they saw their market share threatened and money to be made? The fact that they offer fair trade and unfair trade coffee is a joke as far as I'm concerned.

Again, all Nestle need is for Baby Milk Action to make one untrue claim to get them into court. I mean Ken Barlow sued a newspaper for saying his character was boring!

A) We have to be careful not to be naive though too. Just because Nestles's highly paid PR paint a picture of an innocent corporation being persecuted by those nasty Baby Milk Action people, doesn't meant to say it's true. But at the same time it doesn't mean to say that large corporations, even Nestle are always the big bad wolf either. We need to keep an open mind.

We find something to agree upon!

Indeed, it will be sadly missed.

[Fairies for Change]

Anyway I am very very very very deeply concerned that the BNP is making massive electoral inroads in the UK. It has been taking and losing council seats for years now. It is improving on its policy weaknesses and seems to be getting to the point where somewhere round the country they are going to strike gold and find that one candidate that will be able to take them to the next stage. They are very widely tipped to get a seat in the next European elections. We are headed into an econmic downturn with the political left in a shambles, the far right surging and a huge ignorance in the public about the issues that affect them deeply.

[glastoman417]

I spent a lot of time formulating this view and trust me im not one to fall for PR from a companies. It decided to reassess whos products I purchased and decided that boycotting Nestle was no longer what needed to be done. I now avoid but do not boycott them. This means that from time to time I buy sweets of theirs I like or more often than that I buy nesquick milkshake. The reason for this is that they are changing there ways, if this is for money or for ethics is non consequential for me. I suspect its for money, but at the end of the day a boycott is an economic device. The point of the boycott was to take away there money. If there change in approach is ignored by us then why would they continue with it. Id say in a lot of ways it is vital to make sure the boycott is successful to slowly show your appreciation for the changes, go out and buy some of their fair trade coffee to make sure they get the message. This is part of the embracing where we are winning that I was talking about. They will have to see their changes paying off in there bank accounts or they wont continue.

[504329lt]

Any news on what is replacing the Leftfield?

[Peaceman]

Nothing yet. Leftfield has finally disappeared from the official site 'Performance' section. It was in the Other Areas bit until last week

[Stuzo]

Bumped to help the spirit of Leftfield live on at Glastonbury

Sorry if people object to the bumping of threads that are falling off the radar but the posts on this thread show (particularly dorlomin's post at the top of page 7 and those that followed it) that the spirit of Leftfield lives on.

If you haven't already I urge you to read what has been said from page 7 onwards and then start to throw forth some ideas on what we can do to ensure that the important messages that leftfield stood for are not lost.

It's up to us to ensure that all this years Glastonbury virgins do not miss out on the important messages which Leftfield once preached. If the organisers replace Leftfield with something of equal or greater worth than then we can celebrate a victory for our ideals and do all we can to make it an even bigger success than Leftfield has been. Initially though, we must ensure that the organisers hear our voice and understand what a great loss it would be if the important messages of 'doing the right thing' and 'playing our part in a global community' were diluted in the face of increased commercialisation of the festival.

If the organisers do allow themselves to trample on the roots which made this festival great and bow to commercial demands then we are responsible for turning up and making a stand. We need to go along on 24th June and make sure that the message is not lost, that those who once had their eyes opened by Leftfield do not miss out on hearing our message this year; and that those who decide how much space and resources are allocated to spreading a positive political message and how much is sold to the highest bidder are reminded what holds Glastonbury festival above the crowd, and what if taken away will cause Glastonbury to land in a field of mud like Gary Glitter attempting to crowd surf at the Daily Mail summer BBQ.

...and above all else, please try to help the cause by writing in paragraphs which don't cause half your audience to run away and cry into their fair trade coffee (I'm looking at you dorlomin for that monster at the top of page 7)

So, where do we go from here?

[504329lt]

Something has to be put in its place that is true to the spirit of the Leftfield.

But I think it has to come from music, not just political or 'alternative' speeches. The only people who will go to listen to these are people who want to listen to the speakers, music reaches new audiences.

I would like to see a tent with punk / ska / reggae etc that has a message. Look at the sort of bands that have played 'Strummercamp' or 'Endorse it in Dorset' for ideas.

Please don't let Glastonbury turn into another corporate fest like V or T in the Park (although to give 'T' its due, they did book Rage last year).

However, I'd imagine that whatever is replacing it is already being planned. Any ideas anyone?

[Alcatraz]

Something has to be put in its place that is true to the spirit of the Leftfield.

But I think it has to come from music, not just political or 'alternative' speeches. The only people who will go to listen to these are people who want to listen to the speakers, music reaches new audiences.

I would like to see a tent with punk / ska / reggae etc that has a message. Look at the sort of bands that have played 'Strummercamp' or 'Endorse it in Dorset' for ideas.

Please don't let Glastonbury turn into another corporate fest like V or T in the Park (although to give 'T' its due, they did book Rage last year).

However, I'd imagine that whatever is replacing it is already being planned. Any ideas anyone?

Edited February 5, 2009 by Alcatraz

[llcoolphil]

It's up to us to ensure that all this years Glastonbury virgins do not miss out on the important messages which Leftfield once preached. If the organisers replace Leftfield with something of equal or greater worth than then we can celebrate a victory for our ideals and do all we can to make it an even bigger success than Leftfield has been. Initially though, we must ensure that the organisers hear our voice and understand what a great loss it would be if the important messages of 'doing the right thing' and 'playing our part in a global community' were diluted in the face of increased commercialisation of the festival.

So, where do we go from here?