Debt Collection with Menace

[t8yman]

with the financial climate as it is, I have a few people that owe us money and I really dont think we can survive any more hits this year, we have already taken about 4x what we would normally anticipate in a given year, and we still have a financial quarter left.

Has anyone ever used "heavy" style debt collection? I have always been very cautious about going that route, but I have a few people that are giving me cause for concern and I really would like to be at the front of the queue if they go bust.

part of me thinks "its mine (and my staff's) livelihood/job security" and the other part of me despises the use of aggression and menace.

thoughts?

[Mellowfella]

What would Bill Hicks do?

I think its a call on wether someone genuinly can't pay, in which case, no matter what methods you employ, they still can't pay or; is someone taking the mick to ensure they are alright and stuff everyone else?

From what I've read of your posts t8yman, I dont think you're the type of Guy to get heavy and such methods can often cost you your soul. I dont think that is a price worth paying.

[gedrulz]

I thought you sold the debt to a debt collection company rather than hiring them?

You could always start court proceedings.

[TalkShow Bob]

What sort of heavy are you talking about? Skinhead on the doorstep or menacing court letters? Who are you carrying them out against? Companies or individuals? Might be better to write them a letter saying your going to sell the debt to a debt collectors if they dont pay up, they will probably pay up quite sharpish then...

[oafc0000]

with the financial climate as it is, I have a few people that owe us money and I really dont think we can survive any more hits this year, we have already taken about 4x what we would normally anticipate in a given year, and we still have a financial quarter left.

Has anyone ever used "heavy" style debt collection? I have always been very cautious about going that route, but I have a few people that are giving me cause for concern and I really would like to be at the front of the queue if they go bust.

part of me thinks "its mine (and my staff's) livelihood/job security" and the other part of me despises the use of aggression and menace.

thoughts?

[whitesweatysock]

i don't know what your business is but i suppose you have got to ask yourself are you and your workers working as a business or a charity? its sad when a business having to fold and costing people their jobs and there homes because of bad payers.

i always find a polite but forceful letter out lining your intentions could push you to the front of the the payment list and remember sometimes, something is better than nothing?

[dakyras]

do you charge late payment fees/charge interest?

[Purple Monkey]

If you're going to use Menace, remember to bring Gnasher aswell.

*bud-dum-tssssh*

YOU'VE BEEN A GREAT CROWD GOODNIGHT!!!!

Edited January 11, 2009 by Purple Monkey

[gratedenini]

Sore point for me this--- having experience both sides of this ie having had heavies chasing me for money many years ago--to being owed lots nowadays.

Selling debt? We "bought" a book of vouchers a few yeras ago and when we had a non-payer-- we would use one of these vouchers and the company would do their stuff... we never got one penny back!

Courts--whata laugh.... over the last 4/5yrs we have instigated about 8 county court proceedings...and honestly--we would only do it if the punter is "bang to rights" as it were.

We are not doing it again. Once again--we have not received one penny from this route... honestly--the last 2 have been the final straw... people just refuse to pay--one is in business only a few streets away from us--but they are so cute that they run their buisiness under a different guise --so the courts cannot touch em. One previous-- the Order was issued by the court..to repay the money--they refused... so we instigated the bailiff to act (£50 quid)-- bailiff laughed at us when he seen who it was and candidly told us to forget it--- "I`ll go round and do me job--but I`m tellin yer now--you8 wont get a penny--these people know the system etc etc"

Its took a long time--but we have finally wised up on how to deal with it--and the only answewr is PREVENTION---- once the punter goes out of the door without paying--- yer on thin ice--not all the time-- we have to use discretion esp with regulars--but particulary with new clients --or people with no landlines-- we instruct the staff to make sure payment is made.

Ours can be a very emotive business--and as we are soft as shit--- the amount of insertions in our CLAIMS BOOK was getting ridiculous--but you have to realise its a business as well--and we have kids to feed.staff to pay etc etc. Its a fine line.

I get abuse on a weekly basis..when i take a call on a sat night at 11pm--- I tell em what the call out fee is etc etc--- "I haven`t got that money--what shall i do now--let the f**kin dog die,yer robbbin bastards"

We have wrote off thousands of pounds over the years--but we are a lot lot tighter now... I have no confidence in any options of recovering money by whatever means.

We certainly have the options of going "heavy"... but as has been mentioned--- we couldn`t have that on our concience--and the risk of being caught far outweighs what yer likely to get back.

So-- prevention is def the best route--as difficult as that is sometimes.

Best of Luck

den

[Atlanteanlost]

Aren't there established methods of collecting unpaid bills.....courts etc.

[oafc0000]

Aren't there established methods of collecting unpaid bills.....courts etc.

[thesixthzuton]

It really is the easiest and simple solution to sell the debit...

[oafc0000]

But not always the best. You don't sell the whole debt, only 90% of it, and you have no idea what the factoring company (to use the technical term) is doing to collect the debt - and it will treat all of your debtors the same, as it doesn't know which of your clients are good payers and which aren't. Is it worth pissing off your best client because they were a couple of days overdue with their payment in order to collect £500 from Bodgit and Scarper?

[lamstonite]

*snip*

[PeterD]

mate you do go on don't you? I've never read any of your posts past the 1st few lines

[Mellowfella]

I enjoy Dens posts, but maybe I've got an attention span.

[t8yman]

thanks for the input, and yes, I have used various methods before from taking a charge on someones property to the usual threats of court action, but the last one cost me money with absolutely no result.

I'd happily accept 60-70% of the debt that is causing me the most concern at the moment, because I reckon he is likely to disappear in the very short term.

Its a grand he owes me, or just over.I reckon the bailliff option might be the way to go.

[llcoolphil]

thanks for the input, and yes, I have used various methods before from taking a charge on someones property to the usual threats of court action, but the last one cost me money with absolutely no result.

I'd happily accept 60-70% of the debt that is causing me the most concern at the moment, because I reckon he is likely to disappear in the very short term.

Its a grand he owes me, or just over.I reckon the bailliff option might be the way to go.

[t8yman]

Does the guy know you'd accept 60 -70% (or anything he can pay for starters Id imagine)? You strike me as being way above threatening with menaces, as annoying as the situation might seem

[gratedenini]

mate you do go on don't you? I've never read any of your posts past the 1st few lines

...and my dear Lam, I`ve never read any of yours.

[gratedenini]

oh and just to put it into perspective--below is a sample of really going on enjoy,with a cuppa or two....

Friday Jan 9th 1976.......12.30pm

I passed me driving test! It was snowing really bad and the test was nearly cancelled but ahead it went and I passed first time.

In retrospect --the bloke had me legs well oiled.... certainly because he`d f**kin LASHED em so much.... he gave me 20 lessons which looking back prob could have been halfed, or say 12.

I think lessons at that time were about £3.50... of course some of you will remember em being a LOT cheaper than that..and some of yer will recall when yer didnt even need a license.

Mr Armstrong (next door) --he didnt have a licence -- me Dad used to go spare...

"Bastard dilutee he is" ... a dilutee for those who divvent knaa... is a person who isnt a full blown tradesman ie one who has had short term training to do a "proper" job.

When i was serving my time, there was quite a few dilutees, most of em were better at the job than fully served people. Mr Armstrong didnt really fit into that latter catergory I`m afraid... cos even though I was quite young and didnt know the full ins and outs... I sided with me Dad... Mr Armstong was a right sack of weak shit. He used to bake! Bread and scones etc.

Blokes didnt DO that then did they?

I get away with it now cos I`m "new" man. I can cry openly and even wear nail varnish on occassion with predujice. Oh how things have changed eh.

War changes folk. Me Dad wouldnt have worn an ear ring.

"Cis.... Cis!!! Whats that... in his ear?"

(me Mams in the washouse wringing his vests through the mangle)

"It`ll be his earring"

"Ee... ear? Earring? By lad! ... an I think of all those lads who went down!"

(yet ANOTHER reference to the torpedoed boat etc etc)

"Dad, its only an earring... everybody gets em"

"Aye well the only people I see wearing them in the club sit down to piss!"

"Jim!"

"Dad.. its the 70s man"

"Aaaagh. Bugger the 70s. Jim Reeves... now he could sing a tune he could... not like all these now. There was none of this Top of The Pops then. Was there Cis. eh?"

"Jim Reeves... he`s rubbish. Dad, wait... come and listen to this!"

(I scuttle upstairs and put T-Rex on --- Jeepster)

"Cis... Cis CIS... whats that he`s put on the gramaphone? Sounds like a mouse chowin glass! Have I got a shirt for tonight?"

... 30mins later.. he`s off for the bus to the cluuuurb... to sup another 10-15 bottles of broon.

Me Dad was a f**kin good supper of ale. Never... I never seen him bad with it though... seen him totally pissed and sleeping on a rock in the park,and missin his stop on the bus and having to walk (stagger) further home... but he was NEVER bad with it. He never spewed... or slept in cos of the ale. never. I grew to never understand it... esp when at 16 ish... I rolled in pissed after 2 Double Maxims and a whisky chaser!

Head in the bathroom sink... stomach heaving into my mouth. Me Mam downstairs thinkin she`s now lost her youngest son to the Demon Drink.... me Dad pissin in the tiolet next door... I didnt get told off or anything.

He gave me a little nod the next day... I was expecting a telling off... but all I got was a tellin nod... maybe he was proud of me... I dont know --he never said... just a nod. Never threw flowers me Dad.... he threw money though!!!!

Occasionally, he used to come home from the cluuub.... and we`d all be playing in the street (grove)..... and he would take all the money out of his pockets and toss it in the air...and we`d all scramble about for the coppers.... "Whoa... thanks Mr Lindridge!"

Looking back--- he`d probably had a double up (two non-runners) and picked his winning up.

Mind.. he was a funny f**ker me Dad. Dry as a rats arse he was. He wouldnt tell jokes as such, but his descriptive stories, even about the most serious of stories-- I found hilarious.

He hated Bruce Forsyth.... and every sat there would be conflict as me Mam sat down to watch The Generation as he readied himself for Session No2 at The Cluuuub.

In those days of course... pubs were only open 11am-2pm ish then would hav to close and open at 7pm-10.30 / 11pm.

So, he would get there for 11am on the dot...and leave when forced... come home.... tea on the table... leave it (I`d pinch the meat if he left it)... go to bed.... ALWAYS wake up without alarm clock.... in time to get a wash in the kitchen sink...and back to the cluuub for 7pm.

In todays world... thats a f**kin disgrace tbh... but not then... loads...loads of working class blokes were exactly the same.

Strangley enough.... not ... Like father like Son in my case (or me brother). I`ve only found the demon drink in later life...and drink for different reasons to me Dad... my vices manifested in differing forms (earrings for instance)

So, I passed my test... and got me 1st car.... I bought it from a tutor at the college I attended.

It was a Riley Kestrel.... wood dashboard,manual choke...AND twin carbs. I found out the advantage of twin carbs on a jaunt to Whitby one sunday afternoon... Charltons bank is a steep and winding affair which leads onto the A172 and across the Moors to the seaside Metropolis.

Charltons bank becomes dual carriage way.... and I become a f**kin madman!!! 2nd gear and the whole car takes off.. and I`m whizzin past all the Sunday drivers like Thingy Hunt.

Twin Carbs. My penis glowed a glow when I discovered Twin Carbs.

I bought that car for £80 .. and sold it for £93... the start of my selling carreer..... about two weeks later I was upstairs with Santana 2 on the gramaphone and a joss stick smouldering, me dad asleep in his chair..... and Me Mam beckons me down... theres someone here for you.

I goes down (pretending I`d been smoking a joint.. but actually it was only a Brut soaked Joss-stick I tried to light up)..... bloke who I sold the car too stood there....

"I want me money back!"

"Eh? What for?"

"Look!!" ... he points to the aforementioned auto some 10m away "the bonnet just flew off along York Rd!"

This I can vouch for as a true story... cos I seen it!!! I was driving in the other direcxtion and seen the bloke attempting to retreive said bonnet from the path of a No6 Truro Drive.

I honestly knew nothing of a fault with the bonnet strap... but waht amazed me was how the stupid bastard didnt realise that the synchro had gone on 2nd gear!! How he drove it away without that tell-tale grating noise I`ll never know!!

Anway... I calmly expressed my apologies and said I`d already spent the money.

He toddled off..and I returned to my room and opened the sawn-off sideboard which now doubled as my wardrobe.... took out me toffee tin with 20 pics of wild animals on it...and counted AGAIN the £93.. well actually-it was £90 cos I`d bought me Mam a thimble from Regency House (in York Rd actually)... THE ornyment shop of Hart le Pool with the odd 3 quid.

I was a good kid like that... very much earlier in my childhood... it was my intention to fullfill what I thought was a dream of me Mam...and that was to have above the fire plastered with mirror tiles.... I saved up me pocket money... and went (on me own)... to see what I could do... I came out of Bloomies Pawn shop with a strip of small mirror tiles about the length of the mantlepiece.... My Mother took it as the gesture it was meant... and that one strip of tiles went above the fireplace... and only ever one... and remained there for approx 15yr... until Dad got his asbestosis money... and the coal fire was done away with.

I dont think he was ever too happy with this change...and he would be forever saying "Just put one bar on, the meter is spinnin!".

Similarly, I recall buying (from the same emporioum) a huge f**k off ring for me Mam. Purple it was.... flexy-size I suppose the phrase would be. The stone was clipped into place with 4 extremely femmer "gold" clasps.

She bent it on her finger on one of the very rare times she went to The Cluuuub...and it was still there when she returned,although I had to take this on trust cos I was in bed by then.

3/6d that cost... I can see it now. Of course--I dint know it was a pawn shop---how/why could I? Thats how it was then... now its all a little less seedy.. they are called Cheque Cashing shops now.... purveying all that shit jewelry in the gaudy windows. I`ve had occasion to use such establishments I must admit... oiling my finger before entry (TO THE SHOP yer bastards!) and removing the bands of gold for inspection by the always heavily gilded ladies behind the counter... I would always look at them thinking they`d bought half the bastard shop, the amount of jewelery adorned about them.

Opps Silke is giving me the look... the oway--BED look...so bye.... I COULD have gone on....

den

[Paul ™]

Oh and ty8man, baseball bat and a couple heavies will sort that out

[llcoolphil]

It really would be a last resort, as I said, we would normally expect about 3k a year on average, we must be somewhere in the region of 16k already this year.

the guy isnt the type that will just cough up £700 anyway, I put him on stop on friday, saying we wouldnt leave the stock without payment, and a chunk (at least £100) of the aged money, he rang me and had the front to ask if he could square us tomorrow for the stock. I refused, he paid for the order (and nothing on top) and he didnt order saturday.

[t8yman]

I feel like I must be suggesting stuff you've already thought of, but if he's ordering and paying cash, any chance of dealing on the basis he pays for the order and x amount on top for the debt? or can he be easily supplied elsewhere?

[t8yman]

I am in the same position again. Ive just spoken to a manager at a hotel I deal with, I have known the guy for over a decade, and he told me he has been suspended, the owner of the hotel is basically clueless, and believes he wont have to pay this manager if he is suspended the manager has told me the guy has no money, and owes thousands. He owes me just short of 4K, he doesnt reckon the hotel will trade much past the end of the month.

we cant take this hit.

I never did get the money (via the legal route) that I opened this thread about, the guy disappeared and we got zilch, minus the cost of the legal stuff.

I am seriously considering "getting the boys in". As well as being the jobs and livelihoods of all of our staff- its my future, and dads pension at stake here.

unless anyone else has any suggestions I havent thought of?