Petshop Boys

[Tugger2k]

The unique thing about your opinion though is that you have a propensity to claim it's factual; people inevitably question you on this so you back track, diverting the discussion onto other issues.

Jeez people who don't have the abilty to have a reasoned arguement should be prevented from contributing to any type of forum!

[pinback]

not once i have claimed any facts in here.

i have stated over, and over, and over again, that what i say is a personnal opinion.

some of you are taking this way too seriously.

jeez, someone doesnt like a band you do and then has the temerity to voice that opinion. people that that cant take the fact that there will always be differing opinions should bother reading 'discussion' forums

[glastofun]

not once i have claimed any facts in here.

i have stated over, and over, and over again, that what i say is a personnal opinion.

some of you are taking this way too seriously.

jeez, someone doesnt like a band you do and then has the temerity to voice that opinion. people that that cant take the fact that there will always be differing opinions should bother reading 'discussion' forums

[Tugger2k]

Re-read what I've actually said.

[Tugger2k]

I guess we're never going to agree.

Oh yeah, and I love that good old panacea of a response, 'you're taking this way too seriously'. No I'm not, I'm just passing my time at work

[glastofun]

The point is that it's a discussion board, not an opinions board. We're supposed to interact I like to come out of a discussion having learned something rather than just rigidly repeating that I don't like a band over and over again (as you have). I responded to you initially because some of the things you said were inaccurate and some of the things you said just didn't make sense. It's nonsense (yet again!) to suggest I challenged you because I can't handle you not liking a band I like - one less person in the crowd between me and the stage. Re-read what I've actually said.

If you're dissing of PSB was done with any wit and based on knowing anything about the group, I'd find it funny. You know, something like Mr. Agreeable might have written in the Melody Maker back in the day.

[Katster]

After ME saying early last year that the crowd was getting "too middle aged" and that he wanted to appeal to a "younger, more urban crowd". It seems like a strange lineup. This is my kind of taste, well, Blur and Bruce are for sure but if Blur are the youngest, newest band on a bill then what does he expect?

[Tugger2k]

pinback, this is clearly Tugger2k's method, accusing people of being wrong, then after a plethora of innacurate claims, reverting to the 'well it's my opinion'.

Edited February 25, 2009 by Tugger2k

[glastofun]

if i say people are wrong, thats an opinion, nothing more IMO

i tell you both what, seeing as your both so incapable of differentiating percieved facts (there are only 2 to be discussed) and opinion (there are many) i will put a big IMO after every statement of opinion.

by the way, neither of you have had the curtousy to state, when personallizing this, that it is an opinion, not fact. glass houses and all that IMO

[Tugger2k]

No! That's not the point! Nevermind, it's getting a bit daft now.

Let's kiss and make up. I'll meet you at the Other Stage during the PSB's rendition of YMCA, mixed with Go West, which they're destined to do?

[pinback]

i dont need to re-read what youve said to realise that you have resorted to personnal insults without stating that its your opinion re i know nothing about glasto/pop music etc.

my points have been my opinion about the band, not you.

and for the record - there are only 2 undeniable facts relating to this thread

1 - they had some hit singles & 2 - theyve been about for a bit.

anything else is all personal opinion, yours, mine, everyone elses IMO

[pinback]

I haven't read the whole thread but, Franz Ferdinand?

[Tugger2k]

your understanding of the ethos of Glastonbury is as confused as Noel Gallaghers.

[Katster]

Very possibly, only played Other Stage and The Park (?), so probably due a Pyramid Stage performance.

Do they deserve it though? At least they use guitars, I suppose...

[pinback]

the very fact that you personalise it shows that your hypocracy knows no limits

you cannot correct me on facts as there are only 2 and i havent disputed them - theyve had some hits & theyve been around for a while.

everything else (whether they should play, where & when etc, etc....) IS opinion and conjecture, not facts.

look, enjoy them if they play, i want everyone that goes to have a good time, whether i agree with their choices or not.

[Tugger2k]

I'm not being hypocritical about anything!

Various inaccuracies in your posts that people have pointed out:1- that they don't have enough material for a greatest hits set (despite having over 40 hit singles), that they are not contemporary (despite having a new album out in a few weeks and consistently releasing albums for 25 years),2- that singles are something you listen when your 12 when they obviously aren't, 3- that they don't deserve that slot when they obviously do by any measure you would logically use (save the fact that you don't like them), 4- that they mime (I don't know this last one and would dispute it based on what I've seen, but you discuss it as if it's a fact), 5 - that 'discussion' forums are incompatible with people DISCUSSING music.

I've never one said you're 'wrong' for thinking Pet Shop Boys are shit. It's just that you're posts in this thread are riddled with spurious nonsense. And I'm not taking it too seriously either, unless you count serious work avoidance.

Edited February 25, 2009 by Tugger2k

[pinback]

1 - so does cliff richard, are you suggesting that he would deserve a headline spot

2 - singles are the last resort of the musically talentless, album strength is where you really find out if a bands got it or not IMO

3 - completly and totally subjective, there are no 'reasonable measures' as you put it, we simply disagree on there suitablility

4 - theres definatly pre-recorded music all over the place - thats not a live act

5 - i was told that i shouldnt post, not the other way round (not by you, by glasto fan, my response was in reposte)

as ive said, their are still only 2 undeniable facts here (sales & longevity) and i have never disputed them.

on the work thing, my day has just flown by

[sifi]

I prefered Disco to Introspective.

Apart from the Clothes Show music.

edit : And any band that can convince Joss Ackland to appear in a film gets my vote regardless.

Edited February 25, 2009 by sifimaster

[PAH030]

Are you two still at it??

I'm gonna run a book on who breaks who, haha

[pinback]

I prefered Disco to Introspective.

Apart from the Clothes Show music.

edit : And any band that can convince Joss Ackland to appear in a film gets my vote regardless.

[Tugger2k]

1 - No. Because there is more to deserving a high-up slot at Glastonbury than merely selling records. Cliff would be the oldies slot on Sunday anyway, everyone knows that.

2 - An opinion! Wahay! I personally like albums a lot, but to dismiss singles in one fell swoop is a bit silly. And what about EPs? How do they fit into your rigid musical world? Are they, like, half-good 'cos they have 4 songs on? In any case, Pet Shop Boys have several critically lauded albums to their name - Actually and Behaviour being possibly the most acclaimed, though Introspective is a personal favourite, each track being an extended track akin to progressive house (again showing up your PSB as 'pure pop' suggestion as nonsense).

3 - Of course there are reasonable measures. A mixture of commercial, critical and aesthetic elements of the bands that play. See point 1.

4 - I don't know if it is pre-recorded or done with sequencers or Ableton live software. And let's face it, neither do you.

5 - You complained about posters (i.e. me) not being able to tolerate others opinions, either ignoring or not understanding that it's an interactive forum and half the things you said weren't opinions anyway.

You keep going on about these two 'undeniable facts' like a bloody broken record, but I've just given you a whole lot more that you've ignored (for example, it's a fact that PSB are critically successful), yet you keep making daft comparisons with Cliff Richard and the Spice Girls.

Edited February 25, 2009 by Tugger2k

[Tugger2k]

Are you two still at it??

I'm gonna run a book on who breaks who, haha

[PAH030]

i think this one has serious legs

[pinback]

1 - cliff has his plus points apparantly (i dont know them but im sure his fans could point them out to both of us) so your dismissing an act because you dont think his status warrants it - which is what im doing with the PSB

2 - critical acclaim is someone elses opinion - and for every positive review there are an equal number of negative ones

3 - i didnt know you were the one in possesion of the fabled glasto equation where you can work out where and when a band should play due to factors (if this is the case how do you explain the fratelli's placing last year and coldplays headline slot in 2002)

4 - ok, thats a draw then

5 - after being told that i shouldn't even post (i know thats a bit he said she said but i didnt go on about it until told that i should not bother voicing opinions

because they are the only facts we can discuss, because everything else is conjecture and discussions. the comparisons are only daft in your opinion, its not a fact - here we go again.

over to you

[Tugger2k]

1 - of course im playing devils advocate, thats what an opposing opinion is

2 - its no more relevent to me than your opinion, being as its simply opinion. the fact that they do it for a living makes it no more valid than mine or yours - and that goes for the negative stuff as well

3 - then what are you saying? the eavis's had heard it yes, but no more 'knew' that it was going to push them on than you know whats going to happen tommorow. the 1st was well enough recieved but hardly stratospheric reviews. and that STILL doesent explain the fratelli's position

4 - i was stating opinions as facts, and i'll lay you a penny to a pound that theres pre-records going on there - but fair enough

5 - thats sorted then - i can be shouted down (admitidly not by you) and i simply have to take it, not respond - thanks for sorting that out for me

absolutly you are, thats what forums are about, and i'll never learn, not where the PSB are concerned

Edited February 25, 2009 by Tugger2k