politics and issues

[William of Walworth]

I'd say it's just as politcal now as it ever was.

[William of Walworth]

As for Leftfield, someone went to the farm to speak with ME and as far as I'm aware, the outcome was that LeftField will be back next year. It was cock-up rather than conspiracy.

[pedmills]

I'm 18 and I have to say I am very ignorant when it comes to politics. I try to take notice when people having political debates but all I've found is you gets idiots who don't know what they are talking about but just complain about the Government whatever they do, or you get really knowledgable people who say stuff which makes no sense to me whatsoever. I wouldn't consider myself unintelligent, I just haven't been taught the ins and outs of politics.

I think this why young people are politically pathetic, we just don't know enough to make any firm decisions. Its hard to find a starting point for learning about politics. I wan't to be politically active, but I can't do that unless I know what I'm talking about.

[alframsey]

I'm 18 and I have to say I am very ignorant when it comes to politics. I try to take notice when people having political debates but all I've found is you gets idiots who don't know what they are talking about but just complain about the Government whatever they do, or you get really knowledgable people who say stuff which makes no sense to me whatsoever. I wouldn't consider myself unintelligent, I just haven't been taught the ins and outs of politics.

I think this why young people are politically pathetic, we just don't know enough to make any firm decisions. Its hard to find a starting point for learning about politics. I wan't to be politically active, but I can't do that unless I know what I'm talking about.

[Spuddy]

I'm 18 and I have to say I am very ignorant when it comes to politics. I try to take notice when people having political debates but all I've found is you gets idiots who don't know what they are talking about but just complain about the Government whatever they do, or you get really knowledgable people who say stuff which makes no sense to me whatsoever. I wouldn't consider myself unintelligent, I just haven't been taught the ins and outs of politics.

I think this why young people are politically pathetic, we just don't know enough to make any firm decisions. Its hard to find a starting point for learning about politics. I wan't to be politically active, but I can't do that unless I know what I'm talking about.

[hallamboy]

I'm 18 and I have to say I am very ignorant when it comes to politics. I try to take notice when people having political debates but all I've found is you gets idiots who don't know what they are talking about but just complain about the Government whatever they do, or you get really knowledgable people who say stuff which makes no sense to me whatsoever. I wouldn't consider myself unintelligent, I just haven't been taught the ins and outs of politics.

I think this why young people are politically pathetic, we just don't know enough to make any firm decisions. Its hard to find a starting point for learning about politics. I wan't to be politically active, but I can't do that unless I know what I'm talking about.

Edited March 19, 2009 by hallamboy

[staggerlee]

I'm 18 and I have to say I am very ignorant when it comes to politics. I try to take notice when people having political debates but all I've found is you gets idiots who don't know what they are talking about but just complain about the Government whatever they do, or you get really knowledgable people who say stuff which makes no sense to me whatsoever. I wouldn't consider myself unintelligent, I just haven't been taught the ins and outs of politics.

I think this why young people are politically pathetic, we just don't know enough to make any firm decisions. Its hard to find a starting point for learning about politics. I wan't to be politically active, but I can't do that unless I know what I'm talking about.

[daveinafield]

as the OP ive enjoyed the debate. I've always been a mixture of political identities. Not as far left as a lot of trade unionists but left of centre. I come from a Liverpool family, my grandfather worked in the shipyards that are now dead. The legacy of the miners strike is very interesting with the rise of envirnomental issues -Glastonbury should be at the centre of the biggest debate in the leftist environmental community - there are a lot of socialist thinkers now that are considering nuclear as a the most viable alternative to fossil fuels, that Thatcher was right all along to get rid of the mines - not a view i hold myself - once upon a time there was a wind turbine at the pyramid - where has that gone - we should invest in wind and wave. Yes it will be expensive and the tax man will come knocking and that is when all our left leaning attitudes are tested and why Foot's Labour and Kinnocks labour never got in tho i longed for them....the home counties would not allow it, they had it too good. True Socialism is based on giving of yourself for the greater good. My Father who was the on a board of a big company in the 70's was the only one who wanted to pay more taxes for the greater good - my Marxist brother could not see past the suit and tie

Just a note on Blair and Brown. I think they do get a bit of a rough deal tbh, they have made masjsive mistakes but thats being human, the minimum wage would never have come in under the Tories. Just think without them we would not have had the hilarous site of thousands of toffs marching through London against the abolishion of fox hunting/fuel tax etc...my arguement to that - bloody walk! Any British goverment will be burdened by our imperial past just as this Government was burdened with the legacy of the Tories. Also the Iraq war has sullied them both as has the credit crunch that you could argue where created by outside forces. People love an easy target. Makes em feel better about themselves. I accuse a lot of the PC supposed activists of the day of this. What would you actually do - would you go and fight? Tho im a pacificist when i saw a biography of women being shot in the back of the head on a football pitch in Afghanistan by the Taliban i really wanted to go in with a bayonet. Yes many believe it was all about Americas greed for oil, but regieme change has to be somewhere in the mix. A lot of ideological lefties may be suprised by Joe Strummer's reaction to 9/11 that i read in his biography (pg 615 - Redemption song - ["We've got to go in there and take care of this, if they had to kill every person on earth to fulfil their religious dogma they would gladly do it. Look at Hitler in the beginning he wanted to take over his country and we in Britain said Go ahead and then suddenly we were bombed for four years straight. You cant let these people take an inch because they will take the whole mile.'

Sorry about the stream of thought - it may seem strange to you - i will always have a bond with Gordon Brown - we both had children die in the first few weeks of life so i know how important the nhs is to him. Thats whats in my mind when I vote, as well as the woman i saw being shot in the back of the head in Afghanistan. I know this may be the wrong forum for this but its her birthday tomorrow, she would have been 3, R.I.P Alice my daughter and all i wanted to do was show her the world, Glastonburys green fields most of all

[beergut100]

Economically im left wing, but socially im right wing

[chloesaurus]

I myself am 17, and although it depresses me hugely to say it, I have to agree that most people my age are disinterested in politics and incredibly apathetic...

HOWEVER I do think that there is still a lot of student activism and young people being interested in politics, it's just a hardcore few that do a great deal. For example at a lot of the different events I go to, I always see people I recognise, people who are interested and aware tend to be VERY interested and aware. I think that young politically-minded types do use festivals as a chance to meet like-minded people, I know that's what I do! Yes of course there are a hell of a lot of people my age who do go to see famous bands and get on TV... but if you find Glastonbury depressing due to the amount of apathy, then you must be horrified by the world outside.

The lack of leftfield will be a sad loss for me, I really love Tony Benn (wouldn't he be the BEST Grandpa? And he cares about EVERY issue I care about. He's the BEST), and Billy Bragg and all of the wonderful things that I just hope will still be part of the festival. It just seems that Glastonbury is pandering to the disinterest and apathy of young people instead of trying to get the political elements of the festival more noticed. But on an optimistic level I do think that the elements of a political and socially aware Glastonbury that do remain DO have an impact upon young people, even if it's just a typical yoof saying "doesn't that guy know there are recycling bins?", or posing with a WaterAid poo and thinking about it later, or picking up a leaflet about oxfam. It's depressing that that's what it comes down to, but hey, it's got to be better than Reading, right?

[staggerlee]

What completely meaningless bollocks!

[alframsey]

What completely meaningless bollocks!

[Alcatraz]

Why is that meaningless? Please explain.........

Edited March 20, 2009 by Alcatraz

[alframsey]

There is no "spectrum" for them.

For instance, left wing economically suggests you support Liberal economics (like Thatcher).

Quite what right wing socially is, I'm not sure

The two together leads me to beleive you side with the Conservative party. From your previous posts, i'm sure this is not the case

[Alcatraz]

And there is a spectrum for them, being left economically is called being a 'Fiscal' (and before im accused of getting my terms mixed up, im not on about the term fiscal used to explain fiscal stimulus) and being right wing socially is simply called being a 'conservative/republican', depends on which side of the pond your are from. And it isn't conservative as in the party, just a term Bagheot spoke of.

[alframsey]

Fiscal only has one meaning in economics, ie the one that makes up of half a government's economic policy. A (extreme) left wing (in the political sense) type of economics would be zero growth or what is becoming known as "green" economics.

[Alcatraz]

Yeh, well thats what ive been told are the terms that are used in the US anyway. Maybe they dont convert straight to the UK. Either way there is a spectrum fo them.

I will ask my lecturer and report back.

[alframsey]

Either way its trivial, in fact the enitial comment about it being meaningless was a bit harsh. We all knew what you meant

[Alcatraz]

May I ask what your politics are?

Edited March 20, 2009 by Alcatraz

[HOT JON]

brilliant - i haven't read through the whole of this but what i have read shows that you guys have answered your own question.

the 'youth of today' are apathetic towards politics because of the hypocrisy, ignorance, squabbling and not to mention the labelling obsessed nature that politicians are full of and that this thread is a microcosm for.

too many people arguing redundantly amongst themselves, i don't profess to know all the answers but i certainly don't try and put people who i've never met into neat little boxes such as 'tory' or 'socialist' etc, in an attempt to alienate them and undermine their point of view.

i agree that there should be an atmosphere that stimulates political discourse, and that glastonbury shouldn't lose this part of its appeal, but i also agree with what bombfrog said (ages ago) that the politicised part of the festival (or of any forum of debate) should not be limited to one group of people bleating out the same old tired lines to a group of sheep - what does that achieve? it seems to me that the old school rhetoric is still being thrashed out more through nostalgia than anything useful.

a new approach is obviously needed and quite frankly a good first step would be to cut out the party political arguments and start building some wind turbines

[Alcatraz]

brilliant - i haven't read through the whole of this but what i have read shows that you guys have answered your own question.

the 'youth of today' are apathetic towards politics because of the hypocrisy, ignorance, squabbling and not to mention the labelling obsessed nature that politicians are full of and that this thread is a microcosm for.

too many people arguing redundantly amongst themselves, i don't profess to know all the answers but i certainly don't try and put people who i've never met into neat little boxes such as 'tory' or 'socialist' etc, in an attempt to alienate them and undermine their point of view.

Edited March 20, 2009 by Alcatraz

[HOT JON]

This thread is made up of people who have never met each other, have different levels of historical knowledge and have varying levels of political study. If it wasn't for "labels", the debate wouldn't have been remotely interesting or engaging for people who have little understanding of politics

[Spuddy]

'in an attempt to alienate them and undermine their point of view' - was the important part of my sentence. i appreciate what you're saying - it is a lot easier (and even necessary) to make sweeping generalisations on here, hence why my previous post was so ridiculously over-simplified.

but when people use their generalised preconceptions of someone against them (which happened a lot in the parts of this thread that i read) then that's nothing more than political discrimination. i'm all about free speech, and i don't think that glastonbury festival exploits freedoms such as this as well as it has in the past, largely because people aren't interested in getting involved in this kind of bickering, for the reasons i stated above.

[HOT JON]

I'm surprised you appear to think the general gist of this thread as trying to alienate people and undermine their point of view. I, for one have found it interesting and with very little bickering, considering we are talking about politics

Of course there have been opposing viewpoints expressed, but probably no more in this thread than in other threads discussing favourite bands, and there's been very little discussion about party politics. If this thread has a common theme I'd say it's more about the current perceived apathy in politics - a number of people who have probably not voted before have said they'd like to learn more about politics, and some older people have reflected on the difference between today's political climate, and the one that existed when they first voted.

Whether we like it or not, decisions that affect all our lives are going to be made on our behalf and we have a choice whether we want to have an influence on these decisions. It's my feeling that discussions like these help us all be more informed, even if there are one or 2 comments that don't illuminate. And perhaps this thread will encourage one or two people to read up on issues they might be interested in - it certainly has me.

I'm not sure what you are suggesting here. We'll be having a general election within a year and voters will need to make a decision as to which party to vote for. Isn't it better we're all aware of the different policies of each party and what each party stands for? I agree about the wind turbines though (but I'm sure there are strong arguments why wind turbines are not the answer to our energy needs).

[lesando]

I was around then. Thatcher didn't do any great favours and was decidedly unpopular for her policies, but Brown and Blair have totally discredited the actual mechanisms of government, side stepping Parliament on almost everything, appointing unelected (slime ball) Ministers, effectively supporting and encouraging sleeze, and simply lying. Even Thatcher couldn't manage to destroy confidence in the whole political/government system to the point where many, many people simply don't believe a single thing that any government department says.

And the really depressing thing is that there is no alternative on the horizon.