attention Glasto dieters - do you believe the claims?

[Mr Ploppy]

(i am in no way suggesting anybody drinks cows milk)

(or sucks on the nipples of any other animal for that matter)

[Monkismo]

Just bloody exercise and make sure you get your 5 a day!! I have a takeaway a week. One week KFC, next week Dominos, then Chinese, then Indian. One of these can be supplemented with a Nandos here or there and I always have Subway on a Tuesday cos it's meatball day. Anyway I walk to work and back every day which is an hour and a half round trip and do the rhythm boxing game on the wii-fit every couple of days and have never been in better shape!

[HotChipWillBreakYourLegs]

Go on, explain why it is genetically ok for humans to drink...?

[russycarps]

I've been drinking it for years and am quite happy with my extra fingers thank you very much!

[staggerlee]

eh? Well if you dont know I suggest you do some reading.

pseudoscience - nope. Open minded, interesting and possibly important research is how I would describe it.

Actually, since you included such persuasive language in your post - you have convinced me otherwise. I TOTALLY agree with you. How could I defeat an argument like that.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

[Mr Ploppy]

Surely you should be the one proving that cow's milk is bad for human consumption. I've never heard of this. Considering most humans drink it their entire life and have done for centuries, it can't be that bad for you.

[russycarps]

Surely you should be the one proving that cow's milk is bad for human consumption. I've never heard of this. Considering most humans drink it their entire life and have done for centuries, it can't be that bad for you.

[nina3d]

Oh well, I'll chuck in my two-penneth. I found out over 10years ago that it was cows milk that gave me bad skin and eczema. I switched to unsweetened soya which I find delicious.

What's wierd is that now I'm no longer used to cows milk, it smells absolutely rancid. It's like how I used to think off milk smelled. "Fresh" milk now smells like that to me. I don't know if it's because we're brought up drinking cows milk from such a young age that we become immune to the smell. I now could never be tempted to return to it even if my skin was okay with it. The smell convinces me that it's not actually natural for us to drink it. Yeuch.

[podge52]

Everybody tells you to eat porridge for breakfast if you're on a diet.

Trouble is, it tastes like wet cardboard.

[fur_q]

Cows milk is really for growing calves. If you are a growing calf, you couldnt drink anything better.

It is extremely well documented that modern milk is riddled with allergens and carcinogens. Do some research before spouting shit.

eg http://www.formerfatguy.com/articles/dont-drink-milk.asp

[fur_q]

@Mr Ploppy

"Not really mate - not up to me to prove anything."

it is if you start making wild claims that if you look at what i first reffered to is so uninformed its laughable

" I cannot prove anything because I am not a scientist and dont know for sure that the claims over recent years are anything to be concerned about."

THEN WHY THE f**k ARE YOU PROFFERING THIS ADVICE IF YOU FREELY ADMIT YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THIS IS JUST DANGEROUS

"I do believe (from what I have read) that cows milk is not genetically good for humans. You may well think the same if you look at the research."

Using the term "genetically good for humans" again I have no idea what that means it does not make sense in any scientific way, genetics are completely unrelated to the field of nutrition that is why I told you quote were talking shit. Mention this line to any REAL medical practitioner or scientist and trust me if they dont laugh at you then i admire their restraint

"but again — that is only my belief and I cannot prove anything."

Once again offering advice such as cutting out entire food groups on the basis of a "belief" is irresponsible and dangerous. Cutting dairy out of your diet should not be done unless absolutely necessary, i.e. intolerance (diagnosed by a gastroenterologist), milk is the best source of calcium for the human body as calcium for plan sources cannot be as easily absorbed.

"Also, I would not waste my time trying to educate that narky poster who just swore on this thread and called it all pseudoscience. He obviously did not have a clue what to the new research and has proven that because he asked me instead of reading for himself."

have looked far and wide for any credible evidence to suggest that cows milk is not only safe but beneficial in appropriate quantities, as part of a balanced diet. (have checked DOH FSA BMJ NEJM amongst others)

whilst it can be argued that there is a statistical correlation between milk consumption and increased risk factors for certain cancers there is also good scientific evidence to suggest this may infact be due an overall elevated cancer risk from animal fats in general (more info)

also worth pointing out here that credible evidence also exists that milk may help reduce the risk of certain cancers (see here)

"Well, good job russy had more patience than I as he kindly offered a link to information

I am of the opinion that just because you are told something - like DRINK MILK - you should not blindly go and beleive it. That is why I would not try to prove anything. But, if you do want to know - the info is out there."

i am of the opinion that people should not always mistrust "the establishment' to an extent where they are suspend rationality and start believing in what amounts to modern day witch craft.

whilst i acknowledge that both the DOH and the FSA (thats food standards agency not financial services authority BTW) have been known to make mistakes their scientific judgment are for the most part sound and allot more convincing than many of these quack dietintion website that do not submit themselves to any kind of scrutiny what so ever to the extent of banning members who post comments questioning the articles they publish

"At the end of the day, you could have been drinking milk from the year dot and claim it does no harm"

yes silly me looking for demonstartable scientific reasoning before cutting an important source ofaft calcium from my diet

"but surely you cannot know what effect it has on your body until you stop drinking it and use an alternative? Just a thought."

osteoporosis?

"So if people have been drinking milk for centuries, are you saying that the things pumped into the cows for them to produce milk has not changed in centuries either? Are you also saying that methods of producing mass supermarket milk have not changed for centuries either?

Not having a go - but just because something has been done for centuries can still mean it is open to change and new methods and particularly new research"

a somewhat valid point

Some factory farming methods employed in milk production are a cause for concern but I would suggest if this does concern you switching to organic milk.

"There are tons of examples of this. Mercury is incredibly bad for the human body and some oily fish has very high amounts of Mercury in it so it is not a good idea to eat too much. Mercury is dangerous and is not good for the human body - yet for decades, dentists plugged up holes in your teeth with the stuff.

They dont anymore - partly because of research."

all completely wrong dental amalgam containing mercury is still in use in the nhs and is many well conducted studies have showed no increased dangers

"its good to have your own beliefs whether or not they agree with the next man - but beliefs founded after doing the research is justified instead of "most humans drink it their entire life and have done for centuries, it can't be that bad for you".

Well most humans drive too fast on the road knowing that the extra speed could kill them or somebody else - does that make it right?

as I say - a good discussion when posters can put forward good views and your comment staggerlee was a good one and I am not having a go at you - I just believe - knowledge is power and ignorance is for the foolish."

The problem is that you and many other are ignorant of how to determine just how credible certain science is not really your fault as this kind of pseudoscience is everywhere usually trig to get you to part with your cash.

the problem is that this can be very dangerous i work in the NHS and we are currently in the process of trying to avert an epidemic in London all because of bad science and the way journalists and other non scientists used that bad information to spread unnecessary fear amongst a largely scientifically ignorant population

if anyone is wants t know more about how to distinguish real science from pseudoscience then a great starting point would be the excellent Ben Goldacre

[fur_q]

Oh well, I'll chuck in my two-penneth. I found out over 10years ago that it was cows milk that gave me bad skin and eczema. I switched to unsweetened soya which I find delicious.

What's wierd is that now I'm no longer used to cows milk, it smells absolutely rancid. It's like how I used to think off milk smelled. "Fresh" milk now smells like that to me. I don't know if it's because we're brought up drinking cows milk from such a young age that we become immune to the smell. I now could never be tempted to return to it even if my skin was okay with it. The smell convinces me that it's not actually natural for us to drink it. Yeuch.

Edited March 19, 2009 by fur_q

[superdry]

I cannot prove anything because I am not a scientist and dont know for sure that the claims over recent years are anything to be concerned about.

I do believe (from what I have read) that cows milk is not genetically good for humans. You may well think the same if you look at the research.

[Chimps in Balaclavas]

Edited March 19, 2009 by DAVA

[Harrow Strongbow Ciderman!]

Research from Snatch maybe?

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[Harrow Strongbow Ciderman!]

BTW this Milk debate.....

What about the healthy levels of Calcium & other nutrients in real cow's milk.

Calcium of course is essential for maintaining healthy teeth & for growing bones.

Milk IS good for you!

Well, for kids anyway & while the body is still growing.

I love the stuff but I have to accept there is not the same necessity to drink milk as an adult.

A Nutrition & Fitness coach I used to know told me I shouldn't be drinking as much milk as I do. Basically good for babies, but once sucking on the nipple stops then so should our intake of milk.

I assume he knows a thing or two about healthy eating etc.

[russycarps]

interesting article by Dr Joseph Mercola who is widely regarded by the vast majority of the scientific and medical professions as on of the worlds leading practitioners of pseudoscience and quackery

i was looking for peer reviewed scientific papers (published in recognized journals) rather than just something written by a "Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine" on a practically unknown weight loss website with no credible citations evidence

[fur_q]

I chose that article as it is nice and easy to understand. There are many, many more scientific articles out there.

The point is this:

"mate, it is only recently milk has been pastuerised and homogenised and only recently that cows have stopped being fed a grass diet and pumped full of hormones and antibiotics and god knows what else to stimulate massive milk production. Tests show that milk is now full of allergens and carcinogens (yes, things that cause cancer). Of course, it wont be for a few years that this manifests itself in the general population, but many, many scientific studies have shown that people WILL be affected in a negative way if they drink processed milk.

People have been drinking milk for centuries unprocessed directly from the cows tit."

This is the point. Are you able to follow the point? Is there any part of it you dont understand and that you need me to explain to you?

Edited March 19, 2009 by fur_q

[russycarps]

the point is a most of that info pertains to the USA where rBST use is widespread permitted by the FDA however rbGH in dairy cattle is banned by the EU

as ive also pointed out on the issue of elevated cancer risk factors in one of my other posts the evidence is far from conclusive

ETA the artical you linked may be easy to understand that doesnt make it any good

[Funkfarley]

Lets close down all the dairy farms if milk is soooo bad.

Oh, that includes a certain farm we all know and love too.

[fur_q]

yes, becasue dairy farming isnt an industry in the EU is it? The cows arent pumped full of drugs to maximise output are they.

Do you still think a milk maid goes out to the cows at 4am and sits on a little 3 legged stool and milks them by hand everyday?

Your naivety is touching.

Edited March 19, 2009 by fur_q

[fur_q]

what about the idea that humans are the only species that drink milk from any other species - which, when you think about it, is a bit odd - and we might be better not having any dairy products at all...

???

[russycarps]

ergo this is bad as anything modern or manmade is inherently dangerous

you just accused me of not being able to follow a point and the when i refute your point you change the argument and at no point offer any good scientific reasoning for this just a bunch of ill informed opinions and superstitions

unless you can offer me good evidence that moderate milk consumption as part of a balanced diet is inherently dangerous then why keep this debate up

ETA your the one who is naive im offering well researched information you offering dangerously underinsured opinion with no supporting evidence other than an internet article by a Doctor dodgy dietary supplement seller

[jacketspud]

what about the idea that humans are the only species that drink milk from any other species - which, when you think about it, is a bit odd - and we might be better not having any dairy products at all...

???

[fur_q]

Eh? Are all "modern manmade" products (what are these by the way?) pumped full of growth hormones and antibiotics then? If you are referring to meat (though I think you will find meat is not manmade) then yes, this is dangerous for the exact same reasons.