What a rubbish line-up so far

[eFestivals]

But yeah, just cos it's happening everywhere, doesn't mean it's too be encouraged. It's a whole other argument, but the quantity of tribute acts, the mass of bands reforming and the prediliction for bands to play their classic album as a gig makes me want to weep.

but you should be asking why is it happening.... and to me, the answer to that is obvious - the new music scene is poor compared to what it used to be.

There is little of any particular originality, or even passion. I think most of today's wannabe rock stars are just that - wannabes. I'm not sure that there's really that many who have an actual passion for music, their passion is to get rich and famous - these types used to end up in the manufactured pop bands, but as that scene has mostly died away (thank god) they now have to go the route that should be driven by passion and talent, and with less talent being shown from it's traditional area they get success.

Why less talent? I guess a big part of it can be put on the likes of radio 1, which gives the impression that music didn't start until 1990, and so a lot of 'new music' is simply re-cloning the limited style output that there's been since then.

(I'm not really saying that today's musicians are less talented, just that the chance of their talent shining strongly is often lost thru lack of originality, due to the limited amount of stuff they're referencing as music).

[darrenbha]

I'm actually really pleased that this year i'm not keen on the headliners, with the exception of blur but i'll see them a week later anyway so can miss their glasto set, really looking forward to more exploring and all night fun than ever.

[Mardy]

but you should be asking why is it happening.... and to me, the answer to that is obvious - the new music scene is poor compared to what it used to be.

There is little of any particular originality, or even passion. I think most of today's wannabe rock stars are just that - wannabes. I'm not sure that there's really that many who have an actual passion for music, their passion is to get rich and famous - these types used to end up in the manufactured pop bands, but as that scene has mostly died away (thank god) they now have to go the route that should be driven by passion and talent, and with less talent being shown from it's traditional area they get success.

Why less talent? I guess a big part of it can be put on the likes of radio 1, which gives the impression that music didn't start until 1990, and so a lot of 'new music' is simply re-cloning the limited style output that there's been since then.

(I'm not really saying that today's musicians are less talented, just that the chance of their talent shining strongly is often lost thru lack of originality, due to the limited amount of stuff they're referencing as music).

[Yokel Again]

Why did NME get booted out Neil?

Glasto is all about watching someone like Crystal Castle one minute then wandering around with a cider and watching someone like Jimmy Cliff the next, well, for me anyway. Diversity is key - 'Festival of Performing Arts' - not 'Rock Festival' or 'Festival aimed at readers of NME/Virgin Radio'.

[Tugger2k]

but you should be asking why is it happening.... and to me, the answer to that is obvious - the new music scene is poor compared to what it used to be.

Edited March 27, 2009 by Tugger2k

[Matt 100]

id disagree with that to some extent.

in the fact that its not 'the scenes' fault in itself. id say that as a society were taking fewer and fewer risks as a whole, and this applies to music as well. i see quite a few young bands as i trawl round the thames valley and loads of them have as much passion as the bands i saw 20 years ago.

BUT, and heres the rub, i dont believe that the record companies, or society, are willing to take as many risks as they once were. independant labels have been bought up by majors and are as such, simply extensions to major labels, with the same constraints.

also, i dont think that record companies are as prepared to give acts the scope to fail anymore. lets face it, the number of established acts that havent made a duff/weak album on their way up is fairly small. whereas these bands used to get 5 album deals, one bad record (and it doesnt have to be bad, just not sell well, and if a band does grow and challenge its audience, the likelyhood is it wont sell as much as what preceeded it and the record companies are looking at bottom lines, not artistic merit) and these days, their dumped.

this for me is leading the large number of reformations, its much safer for promoters (and the record companies are slowly transforming themselves as being one huge over arcing body (live/records/websites)) to go to the likes of Spandau Ballet, than take a chance on a bunch of kids genuienly trying something new.

its all of society's fault, not just the young musicians out there.

[eFestivals]

Why did NME get booted out Neil?

I believe that Michael got annoyed at them continually referring to Glastonbury in the pages of their mag as "the nme festival" (the Other Stage used to be 'the nme stage').

[Tugger2k]

I believe that Michael got annoyed at them continually referring to Glastonbury in the pages of their mag as "the nme festival" (the Other Stage used to be 'the nme stage').

[sdaveak47]

but you should be asking why is it happening.... and to me, the answer to that is obvious - the new music scene is poor compared to what it used to be.

There is little of any particular originality, or even passion. I think most of today's wannabe rock stars are just that - wannabes. I'm not sure that there's really that many who have an actual passion for music, their passion is to get rich and famous - these types used to end up in the manufactured pop bands, but as that scene has mostly died away (thank god) they now have to go the route that should be driven by passion and talent, and with less talent being shown from it's traditional area they get success.

Why less talent? I guess a big part of it can be put on the likes of radio 1, which gives the impression that music didn't start until 1990, and so a lot of 'new music' is simply re-cloning the limited style output that there's been since then.

(I'm not really saying that today's musicians are less talented, just that the chance of their talent shining strongly is often lost thru lack of originality, due to the limited amount of stuff they're referencing as music).

[eFestivals]

id disagree with that to some extent.

in the fact that its not 'the scenes' fault in itself. id say that as a society were taking fewer and fewer risks as a whole, and this applies to music as well. i see quite a few young bands as i trawl round the thames valley and loads of them have as much passion as the bands i saw 20 years ago.

BUT, and heres the rub, i dont believe that the record companies, or society, are willing to take as many risks as they once were. independant labels have been bought up by majors and are as such, simply extensions to major labels, with the same constraints.

also, i dont think that record companies are as prepared to give acts the scope to fail anymore. lets face it, the number of established acts that havent made a duff/weak album on their way up is fairly small. whereas these bands used to get 5 album deals, one bad record (and it doesnt have to be bad, just not sell well, and if a band does grow and challenge its audience, the likelyhood is it wont sell as much as what preceeded it and the record companies are looking at bottom lines, not artistic merit) and these days, their dumped.

this for me is leading the large number of reformations, its much safer for promoters (and the record companies are slowly transforming themselves as being one huge over arcing body (live/records/websites)) to go to the likes of Spandau Ballet, than take a chance on a bunch of kids genuienly trying something new.

its all of society's fault, not just the young musicians out there.

I agree with a lot of that.

However, the '5 album deal' thing is working exactly the same now as it always did do. It's a one-sided deal in favour of the record co, and so only a 5 album deal if the record company wants it to be - if any album doesn't sell well then the record co can dump the band.

But yeah, there's much better guarantees of profit from established/reformed acts, and as 'kids' tend not to pay for their music now as they would have done in the past then that's impacting on the acts those 'kids' might like.

[Tugger2k]

However, the '5 album deal' thing is working exactly the same now as it always did do. It's a one-sided deal in favour of the record co, and so only a 5 album deal if the record company wants it to be - if any album doesn't sell well then the record co can dump the band.

[beamends]

but you should be asking why is it happening.... and to me, the answer to that is obvious - the new music scene is poor compared to what it used to be.

There is little of any particular originality, or even passion. I think most of today's wannabe rock stars are just that - wannabes. I'm not sure that there's really that many who have an actual passion for music, their passion is to get rich and famous - these types used to end up in the manufactured pop bands, but as that scene has mostly died away (thank god) they now have to go the route that should be driven by passion and talent, and with less talent being shown from it's traditional area they get success.

Why less talent? I guess a big part of it can be put on the likes of radio 1, which gives the impression that music didn't start until 1990, and so a lot of 'new music' is simply re-cloning the limited style output that there's been since then.

(I'm not really saying that today's musicians are less talented, just that the chance of their talent shining strongly is often lost thru lack of originality, due to the limited amount of stuff they're referencing as music).

[Yokel Again]

This all relates to something that annoys me when people say 'Glastobury has changed since I went in (pick year)'... Of course it has, the world has changed. It's still the best by a country mile, and the most free-wheeling.

I do agree with Record Companies etc not taking risks though. This is why the web is going to change the 'scene' (hate that world) more than it already has... the festivals will just have to catch up, and i'm sure they will. I wouldn't be suprised to see a Myspace stage at a festival soon, if it hasn't already happened....

[marktea]

but you should be asking why is it happening.... and to me, the answer to that is obvious - the new music scene is poor compared to what it used to be.

There is little of any particular originality, or even passion. I think most of today's wannabe rock stars are just that - wannabes. I'm not sure that there's really that many who have an actual passion for music, their passion is to get rich and famous - these types used to end up in the manufactured pop bands, but as that scene has mostly died away (thank god) they now have to go the route that should be driven by passion and talent, and with less talent being shown from it's traditional area they get success.

Why less talent? I guess a big part of it can be put on the likes of radio 1, which gives the impression that music didn't start until 1990, and so a lot of 'new music' is simply re-cloning the limited style output that there's been since then.

(I'm not really saying that today's musicians are less talented, just that the chance of their talent shining strongly is often lost thru lack of originality, due to the limited amount of stuff they're referencing as music).

Edited March 27, 2009 by marktea

[grrrraeme]

but one of my favourite new bands had what was sold as being a "legendary" concert shown on TV a couple of nights ago and, well, frankly the audience was irrelevant to them - they left me thinking I was watching a rehearsal. They won't survive.

[Tugger2k]

There is a very good reason why this is happening and the trend was spotted first by David Bowie back in 2002. This is what he said:

“The absolute transformation of everything that we ever thought about music will take place within ten years, and nothing is going to be able to stop it. I see absolutely no point in pretending that it’s not going to happen. I’m fully confident that copyright, for instance, will no longer exist in ten years, and authorship and intellectual property is in for such a bashing. Music itself is going to become like running water or electricity. [...] So it’s like, just take advantage of these last few years because none of this is ever going to happen again. You’d better be prepared for doing a lot of touring because that’s really the only unique situation that’s going to be left. It’s terribly exciting. But on the other hand it doesn’t matter if you think it’s exciting or not; it’s what’s going to happen… ” (June 9, 2002)

The erosion of traditional revenue streams for established 'name' artists by a variety of factors (but particularly accessing music online) has meant that for them to cash in on their reputation they are having to get out on the road again. Previously they could have sat back and lived very nicely off of their back catalogue or by popping into the studio once every couple of years. But that simply doesn't procuce the same money that it did. There are still another 3 years to go before the 10 year period referred to by Bowie is up but the fact that so many big names have been forced back onto the road suggests that he knew what he was talking about.

Add into the mix the continual improvement in technology for big live events and the availability of venues such as the O2 that are geared very much towards these big names and you see how the whole thing is gathering momentum. And as each old band reforms and cashes in, the others start to look on jealously and pick up the phone to their old bandmates.

The effect on new artists is still a bit early to tell. Yes they are getting squeezed off the slots nearer the top of the bill at big events like Gastonbury. But there is also a big increase in interest in live music generated by this which may yet work to their benefit. And of course the very thing that has forced the big guys out onto the road (online music downloads) also creates a lot of opportunities for new bands to get their music out there.

I don't think its all doom and gloom yet and, as ever, these things go in cycles. Already there are signs that some people are getting a bit 'reunion weary' and chances are that when that takes hold it will create its own impetus for change. For now, I'm going to enjoy seeing Blur this year but also will take the time to search out something new. Hopefully there will be someone out there capable of forcing themselves past the old names into a headline slot in a few years time.

[lovelessrapture]

I don't think its all doom and gloom yet and, as ever, these things go in cycles. Already there are signs that some people are getting a bit 'reunion weary' and chances are that when that takes hold it will create its own impetus for change. For now, I'm going to enjoy seeing Blur this year but also will take the time to search out something new. Hopefully there will be someone out there capable of forcing themselves past the old names into a headline slot in a few years time.

[micawber]

I'm not so pesimistic about what the youngsters will generate over the next 10 years or so. You've got to give them credit and encouragement. Sure, they are going to have to fight the record company manipulation and exploitation, but they will and some will break through.

There are very few groundbreaking acts - ever. Most bands from every generation follow the coat-tails of the few. So we shouldn't expect that to be different for today's generation. And many of the followers are good bands in their own right even if they cannot claim any significant originality.

Modern music students today are being taught in depth from the 40's onwards. I have to confess that I've personally discovered amazing artists, such as Stanley Clarke and Jaco Pastorius, that I had been shamefully ignorant of.

Loved the idea of a myspace festival. That would be interesting so long as attendence wasn't virtual!

[sdaveak47]

Back on topic ..godders1966 seems like a right nob

Edited March 27, 2009 by sdaveak47

[swede]

Is it just me or is anyone else considering cancelling Glasto this year?

The rumoured line-up is very disappointing, in my opinion. There is not one act (apart from Blur probably) that I would pay money to go and see in their own right.

Didn’t Mr Eavis say a couple of years ago he wanted to attract younger visitors to his festival? I’m no spring chicken myself but acts like Neil Young, Fleetwood Mac, Springsteen, Fairport Convention, Crosby Stills Nash, and Tom Jones etc aren’t going to help at all. They actually make me feel young.

I think the final nail in the coffin was when I read that Des O’Connor was rumoured to be there. Give me strength!

Things better improve soon or I’ll be cashing in my ticket for the Leeds or V Festival.

Anyone else considering cancelling or is it just me??

[whatmidlifecrisis?]

Fantastic thread. From unusual oppinion through a smattering of 'f@ck offs' and on to a deep discussion about the state of the music industry....

You see what you would be missing godders? One moment your laughing at you mate that has had too many borthers and is face down in the mud, the next you find yourself wandering past a stage and end up being blown away by someone you never liked (the legendary Cohen in my case) later you are discussing the aftermath of Thatcher's Britain and the best recipe for hash cakes with an aging hippy in the stone circle.

Glastonbury is.....well...Glastonbury. Unique and special.....

Enjoy wherever you end up.

[mouth]

not again ....

[swede]

Jesus, your sig is bigger than most posts on here!

The line-up mean pretty much shit all to me. I'm going for the crack.

[Fairies for Change]

I might start another "Is there an Arena" thread just to liven things up, sheeesh!!

[HotChipWillBreakYourLegs]

If Rage, Metallica, Muse, RHC, Franz and White stripes are not that good who is! rage rage rage! surprise guest appearence john peel