Melvin's Viatout Explanation...

[Dropkick Murphy]

Apologies if this has been posted already. I was perusing the official forums and noticed a sticky topic in which Melvin 'Greedy Bastard' Benn spouts bulshit about his reasons for joing with Viagogo in the re-sale of tickets.

He basically says until the government step in there's nothing he can do. As we all know, this is bullshit; employ an ID system like Glastonbury and its proven to eradicate touting. It really makes me angry.

Anyway, here it is, prepared to be angered:

Melvin's Explanation

Hi Guys

I managed to speak to Melvin, Jennifer and Annee at Latitude last week, and we had a discussion about the Viagogo decision. An explanation was posted on the Latitude boards some time ago, but I have not been able to find it, so I am waiting for someone from FR to send me a link which I will post aswell, but in the meantime here is a brief explanation.

The decision to partner with Viagogo, was one that was taken in order to attempt to safe guard people who choose to buy tickets from secondary sellers. There are various ways to buy a sold out ticket, and we all know Leeds and Reading are one of the fastest selling festivals in the UK, so secondary sellers will always be a part of festival life. That is until the Government take the ticket reselling problem we see seriously and introduce a form of capping on the mark up of resold tickets, which despite Melvin and various others continuously trying to lobby does not as yet look likely to happen. Melvin met with 3 secondary ticket sellers, I think aswell as Viagogo, one other was getmetickets - WILL RIP YOU OFF - WILL RIP YOU OFF - WILL RIP YOU OFF - WILL RIP YOU OFF - WILL RIP YOU OFF and another I cant recall, but he met with all 3, and Viagogo were the company that Melvin got the best "vibe" and most satisfactory guarantees from. Viagogo have guaranteed that they WILL NOT sell a ticket on their website, that does not exist, therefore I can only assume that the guarantee is actually if you buy a ticket you will get that ticket, even though their official guarantee is if you dont get a ticket you get a refund.

The reason Melvin has taken this decision is that he is fully aware, that until primary ticket sellers introduce a refunding scheme, or as previously explained the Government take this issue seriously, the only way to safe guard those who need a ticket and cannot purchase from the Primary sellers, is to partner a company that will at least guarantee that you wont pay out money for a ticket that doesn't exist, and you wont be left loosing money AND your ticket. The other reason this decision was made, was last year saw approximately 5,000 non ticket holders turn up to Reading Gates to collect their tickets from the official box office, tickets that they purchased from an illegitimate business. At least with this new partnership, the number of people who will end up disappointed, miles from home, skint and listening to the festival from the wrong side of the fence will be dramatically decreased.

I raised the issue of the price of the tickets that are being sold on Viagogo, but unfortunately once again, unless the Government introduce a capping law on secondary ticket selling prices, this is something that is totally out of Melvin's hand. This partnership has not come about from a nice little earner for FR via this partnership, nor does it mean that Melvin / FR do not care about how much secondary ticket selling is over face value. Melvin is still very much involved in lobbying Government for a law introducing capping but at the moment, the partnership with Viagogo is the only step possible to make the best of a bad situation. At least with the Viagogo partnership those who buy from this secondary ticket seller will have guarantees that they will not get from any other ticket reseller.

I have made a slight u-turn on this subject, having sat down with Melvin and discussing this whole decision openly. I still stand by the fact that something needs to be done about the incredibly unfair mark up on Reading and Leeds tickets, but I am assured that this partnership is for no other reason than to give you the festival goers a guarantee from a secondary ticket seller that you have not had before from any others.

Unfortunately, and I have no idea as to the accuracy of this statement, but Melvin seems to be under the impression that some of the exchange websites where tickets are sold at face value are a tout haven. Tickets sold at face value in the current climate as I am sure you can appreciate, are 9 times out of 10 snapped up by a tout and resold at a profit, meaning these face value ticket resellers may not be as successful as we would all like to believe.

At least with Viagogo, you may be paying a higher price for your ticket, but you are guaranteed that ticket, and no tout will by these tickets, as they cannot make a profit, so there is a much higher chance of a ticket being sold on Viagogo being sold to an actual festival goer.

Im sorry this is so long, but I really wanted to make the reasons for this decision clear, so we all understand the reasoning behind what appeared to be such a frustrating decision. I hope you can now all see that this partnership may not be the worst decision ever that we all thought it was. I did tell Melvin that it would have been really appreciated to have got these explanations at the time and that in future, such decisions really should be explained to the paying public and not just left to fester.

There were a couple of other things raised that I will just bring up here to save making a new thread.

- I raised the issue of how hard it is to get a ticket, and also that one of the main reasons so many tickets end up getting resold, is because no one can check the line up before they buy a ticket! So they buy a ticket in a mad panic, then think, urgh line up not for me, must re sell my ticket. So Melvin is going to look into releasing the line up slightly earlier than releasing the tickets. It is unlikely to be days, but in my honest opinion even an hour earlier would be a welcome change.

- I also raised the issue of the HMV selling at the same time as online and telephone. I explained that it is usually seen as the last chance sallon for those unsuccessful on release night, and by having it at the same time not only did he take away this second chance option, but it was likely that more people mobbed HMV's than they would have if it had remained the following morning. Melvin admitted that he hadn't looked at it like this and I am hopeful that release at HMV will return to the following morning next year, and this will be raised at the post festival focus group meeting.

- I also reminded Melvin of the 3 questions that we are still waiting to be answered and he has told me you will have the answers in a couple of weeks. He has been really busy with Latitude.

[johnmcga]

Yeah, it's just a load of crap really, isn't it? The touts ensure it sells out quicker, ensuring FR get their money more quickly. Then when people sell on their tickets through Viagogo, FR get a second commission - so they earn more just for flogging the same tickets twice!

It's a bloody joke. I'm more and more convinced Michael Eavis is the only festival organiser in this country who gives a flying f**k about the problem of touts. The rest just seem want to make a fast buck.

(And admittedly, they are ultimately in the business of making money. It's just the way they claim to care about the problem, then do next to nothing to fix it.)

Edited August 20, 2009 by johnmcga

[Explosions_In_The_Sky]

Apologies if this has been posted already. I was perusing the official forums and noticed a sticky topic in which Melvin 'Greedy Bastard' Benn spouts bulshit about his reasons for joing with Viagogo in the re-sale of tickets.

He basically says until the government step in there's nothing he can do. As we all know, this is bullshit; employ an ID system like Glastonbury and its proven to eradicate touting. It really makes me angry.

Anyway, here it is, prepared to be angered:

Melvin's Explanation

Edited August 20, 2009 by Explosions_In_The_Sky

[kev1664]

Explosions,

I commented on your viatout thread the other day when I said that ticketline tickets have not arrived yet. Just an update for you and your mate. I rang up Ticketline today and they said that my ticket was being processed ready to be sent off 2moro to be with me by 13:00 on Monday.

So that means in using this ridiculous system introduced by Melvin of re-selling tickets I would have had to post my ticket at the earliest monday afternoon that would then go on to Viatout maybe get there by Wed of next week, then onto the person I sold it to. There is no doubt that the person I sold it to would want to turn up to the festival as early as possible on the thursday, however it would be more likely that his ticket would not turn up untill the friday.

I think it is disgusting, especially when people are selling for face value on the message boards and other sites. And from my experience the people who are selling at face value are asking for people near to them to buy the tickets so that it can be arranged to meet up to give them the tickets.

Its one big shambles especially how ticketlin and viatout are official partners, wouldnt you would have thought that Melvin would have said to all the origional sellers to get the tickets to people at least 2 weeks prior to the festivals in order for the whole viatout thing to work??

Personally I think this year based on the arrival date of my ticket alone there will be a significant rise in the amount of people who end up with no ticket at all combined with loosing their money!!

[Explosions_In_The_Sky]

Explosions,

I commented on your viatout thread the other day when I said that ticketline tickets have not arrived yet. Just an update for you and your mate. I rang up Ticketline today and they said that my ticket was being processed ready to be sent off 2moro to be with me by 13:00 on Monday.

So that means in using this ridiculous system introduced by Melvin of re-selling tickets I would have had to post my ticket at the earliest monday afternoon that would then go on to Viatout maybe get there by Wed of next week, then onto the person I sold it to. There is no doubt that the person I sold it to would want to turn up to the festival as early as possible on the thursday, however it would be more likely that his ticket would not turn up untill the friday.

I think it is disgusting, especially when people are selling for face value on the message boards and other sites. And from my experience the people who are selling at face value are asking for people near to them to buy the tickets so that it can be arranged to meet up to give them the tickets.

Its one big shambles especially how ticketlin and viatout are official partners, wouldnt you would have thought that Melvin would have said to all the origional sellers to get the tickets to people at least 2 weeks prior to the festivals in order for the whole viatout thing to work??

Personally I think this year based on the arrival date of my ticket alone there will be a significant rise in the amount of people who end up with no ticket at all combined with loosing their money!!

Edited August 20, 2009 by Explosions_In_The_Sky

[jammy2211]

All the bitching and whining on here, does anyone have a better suggestion that FR should do? If they support scarletmist and such like, the fact still remains that most people will sell them for more on Ebay (and fake sellers will use the site, like they do now).

ViaGogo offers you to buy sold out tickets at a premium with a guarentee that you won't be ripped off - it's better then the situation a few years ago where if you wanted to buy a Reading ticket in July you risked losing all your money and not getting a ticket at all. Surely that's positive progress?

I don't personally want an ID system, as the hassle of that combined with the fact I'd have no way of getting my money back if I got ill or whatever puts me off and I've never had a problem getting a ticket before. Saying that, it really doesn't bother me that touts exsist, as I feel they're only as bad as the people who pay over the odds for the tickets in the first place.

[johnmcga]

All the bitching and whining on here, does anyone have a better suggestion that FR should do? If they support scarletmist and such like, the fact still remains that most people will sell them for more on Ebay (and fake sellers will use the site, like they do now).

[Explosions_In_The_Sky]

All the bitching and whining on here, does anyone have a better suggestion that FR should do? If they support scarletmist and such like, the fact still remains that most people will sell them for more on Ebay (and fake sellers will use the site, like they do now).

ViaGogo offers you to buy sold out tickets at a premium with a guarentee that you won't be ripped off - it's better then the situation a few years ago where if you wanted to buy a Reading ticket in July you risked losing all your money and not getting a ticket at all. Surely that's positive progress?

I don't personally want an ID system, as the hassle of that combined with the fact I'd have no way of getting my money back if I got ill or whatever puts me off and I've never had a problem getting a ticket before. Saying that, it really doesn't bother me that touts exsist, as I feel they're only as bad as the people who pay over the odds for the tickets in the first place.

Edited August 20, 2009 by Explosions_In_The_Sky

[johnmcga]

Out of interest, I've seen a couple of people on here now say they don't want a Glastonbury-style ID system. Can I ask why?

Is it just the hassle of remembering to register and upload a photo, or is it something more than that?

(Probably an irrelevant question as the chances of us getting anything like this are tiny, but I'm interested to know.)

[jammy2211]

Out of interest, I've seen a couple of people on here now say they don't want a Glastonbury-style ID system. Can I ask why?

Is it just the hassle of remembering to register and upload a photo, or is it something more than that?

(Probably an irrelevant question as the chances of us getting anything like this are tiny, but I'm interested to know.)

[zahidf]

It's mainly cause, as far as I'm aware, the Glasto style doesn't allow you to refund tickets. So if you get ill the week before, or have a legit reason to not go, you've lost all your money. It could have changed since then. Not to mention the fact that all the ticket servers meltdown on ticket day as it is, I can only imagine how much worse this could be if we all had to pre-registed and buy our tickets solo (How does group ordering work for glasto?).

I guess it's just me being greedy, but I've never had any problem getting tickets and neither have any of my friends (Normally cause the more learned of my group help those with less experience at this sort of thing). Touts only exsist because people buy the tickets at this rediculous price in the first place, at least now they're guarenteed security when buying a sold-out ticket.

You can bet if Reading did go all Glasto on us, you'd soon have people upset that they have no hope of ever getting a ticket after the lock up is announced or whatever. People will miss out on tickets due to it selling out, just currently they can go if they really really want to :/.

[Bradders]

Yeh the Glasto tickets are insured in case you can't go. The registration is barely any hassle at all, takes a couple of minutes and group ordering is simple you just take everyone's reference number.

It's a brilliant system, I hope it gets implemented, but it won't.

[Dropkick Murphy]

So there you go. ID system with refund policy if you are unable to go. As the tickets don't get sent out till a week before the festival, cancelling someone's order, refunding the money and putting the ticket back onsale. Easy.

I honestly don't believe the festival will sell out until well into the summer, if at all, if touts were taken out of the equation. If you think about how many tout sites there are out there at the moment, they must have hundreds, probably thousands, of tickets and I bet hundreds go unsold, which means those who can't afford their extautionate inflated prices means they miss out with tickets still available.

Lets face it, Melvin and his posse are just shit scared that their festival won't sell out the day the tickets come onsale. They are worried that it will end up like a few years ago when you were still able to get tickets a few weeks before the festival. It's been said before, but Festival Republic don't give a shit about touts. Although they seem to think touting is fraudsters selling imaginary tickets, which of course is incorrect.

They NEED to employ a Glasto ID system to eradicate touts. Its proven to work. All the people I have spoke to about this have absolutely no issues with it at all. Look at Glasto now, it doesn't sell out, why? 'Cos there are no touts. FR need to stop waiting for the government to act and do the right thing. But they won't. It stinks.

Festival Republic are worse than touts. They are scum.

Edited August 21, 2009 by Dropkick Murphy

[zahidf]

So there you go. ID system with refund policy if you are unable to go. As the tickets don't get sent out till a week before the festival, cancelling someone's order, refunding the money and putting the ticket back onsale. Easy.

I honestly don't believe the festival will sell out until well into the summer, if at all, if touts were taken out of the equation. If you think about how many tout sites there are out there at the moment, they must have hundreds, probably thousands, of tickets and I bet hundreds go unsold, which means those who can't afford their extautionate inflated prices means they miss out with tickets still available.

Lets face it, Melvin and his posse are just shit scared that their festival won't sell out the day the tickets come onsale. They are worried that it will end up like a few years ago when you were still able to get tickets a few weeks before the festival. It's been said before, but Festival Republic don't give a shit about touts. Although they seem to think touting is fraudsters selling imaginary tickets, which of course is incorrect.

They NEED to employ a Glasto ID system to eradicate touts. Its proven to work. All the people I have spoke to about this have absolutely no issues with it at all. Look at Glasto now, it doesn't sell out, why? 'Cos there are no touts. FR need to stop waiting for the government to act and do the right thing. But they won't. It stinks.

Festival Republic are worse than touts. They are scum.

[JakusMaximus]

The Glasto system is great, easy to implement and embarasses Melvin Benn.

I appreciate we live in a capitalist society, but there are plenty of people who wanted to go to Reading this year and couldn't go because the tickets sold out - Many of those tickets didn't go to actual festival goers, many of those tickets went to touts with no interest but to re-sell at a mark up price, leaving many true Festival goers out of pocket, or out of festival.

Now we have a situation where FR is sponsoring this system which i deem to be ridicolous, FR now makes money from selling the tickets to the touts at face value, the touts then make a profit from re-selling these tickets on Viagogo, Viagogo makes a profit from comission on these sales and FR also makes a profit from comission.

All this profit at who'se expense? Yours and mine.

And they don't even have the decency to guarantee your ticket when you buy from this tout site, instead you get a refund which, due to the biased nature of how Viagogo works (Re-seller updates the order tracker, Re-seller posts the tickets) and depending on the quality of customer service, can be extremely tedious and a huge waste of time.

Viagogo serves no purpose but to make money for all parties at the expense of you and me - from a money making perspective it's a genius idea, it gives justification for the partners involved to charge customers and squeeze more (In some cases almost double) the amount of money out of a ticket valued officially at £175 +£8 "booking fee".

I wont be back in 2010 because of this reason alone, i'll be going to Glastonbury.

Viagogo makes me sick, as do touts, as does FR, as does Melvin Benn's handling of this situation:

What a nice way to pay back the people who supported the festival and made the parties involved richer than they could ever imagine:

What a bunch of c**ts.

Edited August 21, 2009 by JakusMaximus

[Chris12345]

As much as the Glasto scheme works, and I'd rather that than the situation we have atm... of the 16 or so of us who've booked tickets... about 6 or 7 of them have changed hands, none at a profit, and all to the same friendship group... but people haven't got time off, gotten ill, broken up, fallen out, changed their mind etc... also, when tickets go on sale we basically go for a scattergun approach, whoever gets thru first buys them, then we allocate them later... although with the glasto system there's prob less rush?