Taking H&S, uniforms and rules a little too fair

[feral chile]

well, as soon as you have a uniform policy, that's the kind of thing a school has todeal with.

Black trousers... are black jeans trousers?

Black shoes...so many shoes are now designed to look like trainers, but trainers aren't allowed...

some teachers are complaining that they're wasting time implementing (what they think is) a pointless policy..

going back to the original post... it's funny how things turn 'round. I was getting told to get my hair cut at school... these 2 kids are told it's too short.... how odd

[feral chile]

The hair was the issue with me.

I was reasonably prepared to accept the uniform (although the short trousers and cap on a young teenager who had a girlfriend, took drugs, and was maturing at an alarming rate, was difficult ), but my hair was mine. I couldn't suddenly grow it when the bell went at the end of the day

Edited October 7, 2009 by feral chile

[Rufus Gwertigan]

It's weird that in my old school, with its outrageous attempts at enforced conformity, missed the most glaring thing that we chose to identify with - hair styles. The two rival gangs, Skinheads and Greasers, were allowed to keep their defining feature - their hairstyles.

Edited October 7, 2009 by Rufus Gwertigan

[oafc0000]

just replying to the point that was being made. If you think 2 pairs of trousers for a fiver, whatever the human cost is a good thing, then fine

Edited October 7, 2009 by oafc0000

[dakyras]

I didn't exactly go to the best school (pupils threw chairs at teachers and made them cry, PE involved skiving and chain smoking, and everyone knew the headteacher was sleeping with his pupils), no one was really strict about our uniform (wearing a tie as a belt/in your hair was acceptable, skirts could be as short as you want, black trainers rather than shoes etc) and I definately had and saw some 'extreme hairstyles' (I once had every colour of the rainbow in my hair, good times!) and I still managed to leave with 13 GCSE's (all C or above) and a Diploma.

Didn't seem to affect me.

[oafc0000]

Slightly off topic, and purely indulgent, but uniform related. I spent all of my school life and a good few years later in uniform. However in retrospect I do realise that the idea of rebelling against the uniform is a realtively sound idea. Although we had strict rules on dress in the army when it came to headwear as long as your cap badge was over the correct eye, you could shape your headwear to suit you, and in a way express your individuality.

OK there are only so many ways to shape a beret.

Me at school on Church parade. Front rank third one in.

Me in the army, with my ker..azy beret

[feral chile]

How many of your GCSEs were A* though? What you're basically saying is that a school with no discipline manages to churn out kids with average results.

[oafc0000]

yeah but what sort of discipline? School uniform is meant to be about equalisation, not discipline. A school that encourages self discipline, self expression and the capacity to think for yourself should be capable of producing good results too, and not just academically.

[dakyras]

yeah but what sort of discipline? School uniform is meant to be about equalisation, not discipline. A school that encourages self discipline, self expression and the capacity to think for yourself should be capable of producing good results too, and not just academically.

[feral chile]

I've heard this before, and it confuses me. Suppose conformity was what you wanted, or if you conformed BY rebelling, which is what's kind of being implied here... I think it gets very confusing and messy very quickly.

Edited October 7, 2009 by feral chile

[Rufus Gwertigan]

Loving the pics fella You look so smart

[oafc0000]

which sweeping statement?

it's not totally unmeasurable. How much history do you know, how good at maths are you, etc etc

Scandinavian countries, Germany, France, who I think have an excellent take on religion in schools. That's something for outside of any 'education' system, they don't ban free will... do you really think that?

America...? I wouldn't like to start really... creationism, etc

nope

Edited October 7, 2009 by oafc0000

[oafc0000]

I think you lead by example. Anyone, a kid or an adult will show respect if they are given it in the first place

[feral chile]

Discipline can be taken two way though cant it...

You can install discipline into people... So they are respectful etc... a good thing...

Or you can discipline someone by smacking the back of their heads.. a bad thing...

[oafc0000]

Uniformity of clothing makes it easier to encourage discipline en masse though.

The national curriculum doesn't allow much room for self expression or thinking for yourself. If you have any original ideas, or have conducted outside reading (in English for example), it doesn't matter and can mark against you because it's not the prescribed theory of the exam board.

Edited October 7, 2009 by oafc0000

[Rufus Gwertigan]

I think you lead by example. Anyone, a kid or an adult will show respect if they are given it in the first place

[oafc0000]

We need to teach respect and self discipline. The rest will then come naturally

[feral chile]

Uniformity of clothing makes it easier to encourage discipline en masse though.

The national curriculum doesn't allow much room for self expression or thinking for yourself. If you have any original ideas, or have conducted outside reading (in English for example), it doesn't matter and can mark against you because it's not the prescribed theory of the exam board.

Edited October 7, 2009 by feral chile

[feral chile]

Would you say a school should have a role in that ? or just the parents ?

[oafc0000]

I think the whole community should have a role in that. But certainly schools as well as parents.

[oafc0000]

The national curriculum maybe. But schools should be about so much more than that. The teachers should be encouraging you to think, even if they also have to teach you how to churn out stock answers to exam questions.

Else, how can they call themselves educators?

[Rufus Gwertigan]

I think the whole community should have a role in that. But certainly schools as well as parents.

[feral chile]

Oaf has said this, but I agree. Aoart from TB's comments about encouraging inter school rivalries, I think a uniform does give the school identity within the community, and some sort of ownership with that, and that knocks some sense into them on onto the kids.

Does that make sense??

[feral chile]

I truly fail to see why the school a child might end up in should have much to do with that child's identity. There might only be one school in your area, or you might end up having to send your child to a school that might not be your first choice... identity starts with the child, not an institution that is bound by rules that seem to have it's origins in an unworldly Dickens type era

the people at the school maybe, but not THE school

[Rufus Gwertigan]

I truly fail to see why the school a child might end up in should have much to do with that child's identity. There might only be one school in your area, or you might end up having to send your child to a school that might not be your first choice... identity starts with the child, not an institution that is bound by rules that seem to have it's origins in an unworldly Dickens type era

the people at the school maybe, but not THE school