Foxy Knoxy

[Greeny_Musicchild]

Id agree up to a point. However, when attitudes become so reinforced by the casual use of language, then intent becomes a cloudy issue. Let's assume oaf had no malicious intent in his words. Now let's assume one of the gay members of the boards happened to be passing through, saw the discussion topic and wanted to offer an opinion. Do you think that a bunch of heterosexual males bandying about the phrase carpet muncher as a referent for lesbian invites them to comment or excludes? Firstly, we have the assumption that because she'll be going to prison, she'll be having sex with women. I can easily imagine why a lesbian may find these assumptions and implications about their own sexuality offensive - I dont ever recall hearing a comment about a bloke going to prison and what that means for his sexuality. But then we have to take it a step further and diminish what being a lesbian means by summing it up as a sexual act - and summing it up in a completely coarse and unnecessary way. Now there may have been no malicious intent directly from the user - but it is easy to understand why it is language that deliberately excludes. And if it is language that just by its use excludes, then that should highlighted every time. And to the annoyance of many on here, that is exactly what I do - because I wouldnt be able to look my friends that it impacts on in the face iof i didnt.

Edited December 7, 2009 by Greeny_Musicchild

[feral chile]

Id agree up to a point. However, when attitudes become so reinforced by the casual use of language, then intent becomes a cloudy issue. Let's assume oaf had no malicious intent in his words. Now let's assume one of the gay members of the boards happened to be passing through, saw the discussion topic and wanted to offer an opinion. Do you think that a bunch of heterosexual males bandying about the phrase carpet muncher as a referent for lesbian invites them to comment or excludes? Firstly, we have the assumption that because she'll be going to prison, she'll be having sex with women. I can easily imagine why a lesbian may find these assumptions and implications about their own sexuality offensive - I dont ever recall hearing a comment about a bloke going to prison and what that means for his sexuality. But then we have to take it a step further and diminish what being a lesbian means by summing it up as a sexual act - and summing it up in a completely coarse and unnecessary way. Now there may have been no malicious intent directly from the user - but it is easy to understand why it is language that deliberately excludes. And if it is language that just by its use excludes, then that should highlighted every time. And to the annoyance of many on here, that is exactly what I do - because I wouldnt be able to look my friends that it impacts on in the face iof i didnt.

[-pogo-]

I just think of a friend I have who is half irish, half pakistani, who refers to himself using two derogatory terms in one term for the irish and for pakistani's.

tbh, nobody would know he was half irish if he didn't say he was, so someone hearing him say the derogatory term for an irish person, may find him a bigot, when he clearly isn't, he's taking the piss.

[strudders]

I just think of a friend I have who is half irish, half pakistani, who refers to himself using two derogatory terms in one term for the irish and for pakistani's.

tbh, nobody would know he was half irish if he didn't say he was, so someone hearing him say the derogatory term for an irish person, may find him a bigot, when he clearly isn't, he's taking the piss.

[feral chile]

I just think of a friend I have who is half irish, half pakistani, who refers to himself using two derogatory terms in one term for the irish and for pakistani's.

tbh, nobody would know he was half irish if he didn't say he was, so someone hearing him say the derogatory term for an irish person, may find him a bigot, when he clearly isn't, he's taking the piss.

[Greeny_Musicchild]

But do you call him by those names?

[llcoolphil]

Now or ever? You must mean now as if you've honestly never heard a joke about males in prison then you need to stop living under your current rock.

[strudders]

Does it matter?

[-pogo-]

But do you call him by those names?

[Greeny_Musicchild]

Very much so.

certain words have different cultural meanings when said from the oppressed or minority perspective.

A word used extensively by haters when used by the hated mean completely different things.

[Greeny_Musicchild]

It's to be hoped. Sadly, I think we are hell bent on a course that is going to exacerbate difference even more rather than eradicate its inequalities. When we get down to the proper fighting over the earth's resources when there no longer is enough to go round, then we'll look back and think this a permanent summer of love

[Billy09]

Ive been in plenty of gay bars pogo and if you think there is no difference between what you are describing here and the use of homophobic language, you are a bigger fool than I thought

[Billy09]

It is using the word 'gay' as an insult. Just because you doint have the intelligence to see it as homophobic doesn't make it not so.

Edited December 7, 2009 by dr_billy

[philipsteak]

if you were accused of murdering someone would you be smiling about it? her whole attitude just screamed guilty to me.

[ampersand]

Oh, and I've lived in Wales 7 years, and have a vocabulary of about 20 words in Welsh, what do the anti-immigration lot think of that?

[Rufus Gwertigan]

I honestly have no idea how I'd react. People react to stressful situations in strange ways. Reminds me of the documentary "Paradise Lost" about the murders at Robin Hood Hills and the 3 'weird' teenagers who were found guilty of them. Some of their reactions were very odd, and probably helped convince the jury they were guilty despite it being a really unsafe conviction.

And I don't really know much about this case. No idea if she'd guilty or innocent. Hasn't received a great deal of coverage here so its kinda passed me by.

You know Rachel, if we aren't careful here, we'll be in real danger of staying on topic.

[-pogo-]

I do tend to agree with Rachel in a way. From my experience when people are in court they tend to show some humility, whether not guilty or not. Thise that I have seen act cockily have usually been given a longer sentence.

Yes it is a stressful situation, but in saying that there is a small amount of theatrics involved in a trial or hearing and a good lawyer will brief you before going in. With the world press looking on, and many presuming her guilt, would it be hard to look ashen or maybe slightly worried?

[Rufus Gwertigan]

In the idea of her being innocent, maybe smiling from time to time is something that was getting her through without breaking down completely perhaps? After all, everyone reacts differently, some people have different ways to cope.

[strudders]

I think its a very good point - moving to country where you cannot speak the national language, is exactly what you have been talking about. He 'contributes', which appears to be your main criteria ...

[Billy09]

that it's quite a retarded point from someone who i assume is very intelligent

Edited December 8, 2009 by dr_billy

[-pogo-]

With Wales though, surely they'd be happy with anybody?

[philipsteak]

I do tend to agree with Rachel in a way. From my experience when people are in court they tend to show some humility, whether not guilty or not. Thise that I have seen act cockily have usually been given a longer sentence.

Yes it is a stressful situation, but in saying that there is a small amount of theatrics involved in a trial or hearing and a good lawyer will brief you before going in. With the world press looking on, and many presuming her guilt, would it be hard to look ashen or maybe slightly worried?

[oafc0000]

what about Belgium?

Official language there is French, German and Dutch?

[oafc0000]

I work with a lot of non-English doctors, and although I see the need for them to speak English, don't see why their families should be forced to integrate.

[llcoolphil]

I think it is reasonable to expect a immigrant family to try and grasps the basics of English.