Foxy Knoxy

[feral chile]

Use of "gay" not ok.

Clearly it's not the word, it's the context it's used in.

The word "lesbian" could be used offensively, and I don't think saying Knox had better get used to being a lesbian in prison is any less offensive than whatever the rug muncher comment was.

But hey, I'm white, striaght, male and middle class, so my opinion don't count for shit.

Incidently I no more chose to be middle class or white or male or straight than any of the other persecuted stereotypes chose to fit into their demographic, I accept that socially generally I am at an advantage over some (which is wrong), but try not to take advantage of this, and believe in equality. I find the willingness to use "middle class" as an insult on these boards a bit odd, considering the generally politically correct attitudes prevalent. (I once deliberately didn't apply for a job I knew I had been ear-marked for as I heard the reason why I had been ear-marked was that I spoke English as a first language, and wasn't Indian by descent).

Oh, and I've lived in Wales 7 years, and have a vocabulary of about 20 words in Welsh, what do the anti-immigration lot think of that?

[-pogo-]

Seriously pogo, Im not playing games. This is how I see it.

Pogo suggested that because something happens in a film called White Chicks and something different happens in a film called Bruno, these examples make it legitimate to make the same jokes in real life. I pointed out that this was nonsense because you wouldn't cite John Maclean in Die Hard as a legitimate way of dealing with terrorists. CBC then came along with some discussion group about perceptions of reality in fiction. We aren't talking about perceptions of reality in fiction, we are talking about perceptions of reality in reality. Until someone dealing with terrorists adopts a policy because 'Ive seen John Maclean do this in Die Hard it'll definitely work', the idea that we cite Die Hard as a useful understanding of how to deal with terrorists in the real world is null and void.

[feral chile]

So we've agreed that carpet muncher is an offensive term in the context it was used, we have agreed that immigrants should have no language demands placed on them befoe they arrive and elsewhere LW agrees with me over the World Cuip at Glasto next year.

Hard not to be smug sometimes

[ampersand]

It's an offensive term all round anyway.

it's also offensive to men, since it implies that only women know how to do the job properly, since it's being applied solely to women.

Edited December 8, 2009 by ampersand

[feral chile]

You have different types of comedy yes? I'm not dismissing the fact you have racist comedy, homophobic comedy, etc

I'd imagine amongst the rank of the BNP there are racists jokes where the aim of the joke is to take the piss out of, say, an Indian person? That gives it malice and aims to target a group in a negative way? Yes?

It's not as clear cut as you are trying to make it out Phil!

Edited December 8, 2009 by feral chile

[dakyras]

Oh, and I've lived in Wales 7 years, and have a vocabulary of about 20 words in Welsh, what do the anti-immigration lot think of that?

[Wooderson]

Interesting summary of the whole mess.

[strudders]

It says nothing in that article about cunnilingus

So Oaf you are wrong.....

Good read though and paints a very different picture.

however I thought that

Senator Maria Cantwell, a Democrat from Knox’s home state of Washington, said she was “saddened” by the verdict. “I have serious questions about the Italian justice system and whether anti-Americanism tainted this trial.”

[Greeny_Musicchild]

I would suggest she look at her own justice system before commenting further....... as they do seem to be able to just put people in prison over there without a trial.......

[pinback]

Interesting summary of the whole mess.

[strudders]

She's right though. Just also a massive hypocrite.

[Greeny_Musicchild]

She right about what? the Italian Justice system? anti-Americanism tainted this trial?

Whilst it may not be the way in which we or the USA conduct trials and present evidence, when in Rome do as the Romans do. You cant say that it was not a fair trial and you cant say just because she was an American she got a sh1t deal.

As I read it, there was a lot of evidence other than the DNA evidence that sent her down.

And if you say well she would never have got a fair trial because she is American, then I suggest all those associated with 911 about to be tried may well as walk from the court straight to the electric chair and forget the bit in the middle.

I am sorry I just don't buy Americans screaming because it appears an all American girl has gone down for murder in another country.

As somebody said, if she was a black girl, then it would not have been a story in the USA at all but because she appears all apple pie, Jesuit schooled she must be innocent............

[Billy09]

Probably not much, as the language of Wales is English.

Edited December 9, 2009 by dr_billy

[ampersand]

Really? F"ck me, I thought I was just psychic when I understood them.

My point was people apply double standards when it comes to need to integrate with the society they're in, which I did clarify later.

Edit: could you let the Assembly know that please, I find the bilingual road signs really annoying (even if they do account for about half my Welsh vocab).

[Rufus Gwertigan]

IHowever, I also question any justice system that allows jurors access to media during a trial. Outside influence and a trial that only happens 3 days a week, allowing them that access, doesn't have the ability to be fair. Again, in my opinion. Anti-Americanism may well have taken a role in the conviction.

[Wooderson]

Interesting and depressing at the same time.

[Billy09]

intergrate? you speak the f**kin language. what the f**k you on about?

[ampersand]

I speak one of the languages.

dakyras claimed the language of Wales is English, it isn't, it's one of them. My point about the road signs was to illustrate this.

The whole of my original post on this was to show examples of the double standards we apply regarding others having to integrate when they come to Britain. We have no requirement for residents to speak any particular language, but start to put up barriers to imigrants requiring them to learn English and to adopt our culture if they come here. We don't expect to have to do this when we travel necessarily.

[Billy09]

right, and in the highlands, the road signs are also in gaelic. what's your point? english is still the main language. if you go to debenhams or morissons, theyre not going to speak welsh or gaelic to you.

and my original point isn't about people coming to britain. it's about anyone going anywhere where the language they speak isn't the one of their homeland. i was specifically relating it to me going to a foreign country. i'm not nick griffin!

[ampersand]

I think it's a bit different down here, I have come across the odd person who doesn't communicate well in English, and furthur afield its much more common.

My post didn't just include the Welsh thing, I was talking also about my experience of living in expat communites when younger in arabic countries.

My point is that I think requiring integration is discriminatory.

[Billy09]

no it's not disciminatory, it's common sense. hence why i haven't just moved off to germany or spain. i wouldn't see it as them discriminating against me, i'd see it as me being ignorant; wanting them to bend over backwards to accomodate me.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

I think it's a bit different down here, I have come across the odd person who doesn't communicate well in English, and furthur afield its much more common.

My post didn't just include the Welsh thing, I was talking also about my experience of living in expat communites when younger in arabic countries.

My point is that I think requiring integration is discriminatory.

[-pogo-]

I have a new Balls Avenue up already!

[ampersand]

What the feck are you on about? The reason you don't live in Germany or Spain is because you don't wish to inconvenience the Germans or Spanish populace with your ignorance?

[ampersand]

That's fine if that's the choice you want to make.

If someone is able to work in this country without speaking English well, I consider requiring them or their family to integrate or learn a language for the sake of proving they're integrating to make the "real Brits" more comfortable discriminatory.

I certainly would have thought the same thing if as the child of a worker in an arab country I had been forced to integrate in this way there.