Things that annoy you ?

[Spindles]

@rufus, best of luck fella, seems you and I have alot in common in our pasts from what you write. Hope it goes alright for you.

@Barry. Bleedin' typical. They (governments of all flavours) have been trying to put an end to squatting for a long time, gradually nibbling away at the legal rights that have made it possible, with no thought as to why those rights exist. When I first left home I was in a squat for a few weeks, it meant I could get a job, save for a deposit, get a bedsit, get myself out in the big wide world and have not looked back in 24 years. The house we were in was owned by a crook who had fled to the costa del crime

[The Nal]

The iphone clicking noise when people are surfing the net or texting. *click click click click click click*

Turn the fucking sound off!!

[eFestivals]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19429936

This is annoying...

The government should be focusing on laws which release unused housing stock into the market instead of this sort of stuff.

It's a law that Thatcher mooted, but which was a step too far even for her (tho she did make trespass a criminal offence).

So why the need for it now? It's of course nothing to do with the imminent cuts in housing benefit, which will cause much more homelessness which in turn will lead to people squatting.

Whilst it's normal for the govt to have and enforce property laws, houses and land is not normal property - which is why they've previously been omitted from the govt enforcement. New land cannot be created, and houses need land - as do people. It's stupid in the extreme to set up a legal system whereby it becomes an impossibility for people to have access to the land they need to live unless they have ownership or contracted rights of use.

[Spartacus Mars]

Whilst it's normal for the govt to have and enforce property laws, houses and land is not normal property - which is why they've previously been omitted from the govt enforcement. New land cannot be created, and houses need land - as do people. It's stupid in the extreme to set up a legal system whereby it becomes an impossibility for people to have access to the land they need to live unless they have ownership or contracted rights of use.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Spartacus Mars

[eFestivals]

Listening to five live today and some of the "squatters" arguing the points where complete w*nkers. One thought there was nothing wrong with moving into a single mother rented home (she had lived there for 15 years renting) and claiming "squatters" rights... The exact details of how the gained entry I don't know.

That is nothing to do with squatting and everything to do with trespass you moron.

I think the amount of useable but unoccupied properties in the country is scary and dangerous. Support real squatting in genuinely unoccupied properties.

The problem is that it's not always possible to identify what is a genuinely unoccupied property and what isn't.

Someone in need is someone in need, and they'll be most likely to go for what looks like the easiest way of fulfilling their need.

The way to address is is for society to try and fulfil their need, not try and sweep the problems under the carpet by the stupid pretence that people don't need houses if they can't afford to buy or rent one.

The exact details of how the gained entry I don't know.

Working from my presumption that squatting laws are the same as they were 30 years ago (and they might not be, I'm not sure), then a squatter can legally squat only if they don't force entry.

The normal routine in taking a property for squatting would be for someone to break a window, and then if it's not been repaired or patched in 24 hours they'd use the broken window to gain access.

While that's of course not sticking to the letter of the law, most properties that are empty are properly secured, so it becomes a necessity to manipulate the law to fulfil that person's need for housing. And it of course has the added advantage of giving some sort of real-world test for whether the property is really unoccupied.

There should be a law stating if a property has not been occupied for two years or so it should be put on the market to protect it from squatting.

I'm pretty sure that there used to be a law very much like that, that allowed local authorities to compulsory purchase homes that had been empty for a period of time ... and I'm pretty sure that's another one that Thatcher repealed for the benefit of the rich.

[Spindles]

Indeed Barry, sometimes letting the wrong people speak for a cause damages the genuine message of the cause. Some groups don't get represented by the eloquent or intelligent either, leading to them being stigmatised as "pond life" rather than the genuine problem being looked at objectively.

Just got back from the doctors, met a friend who is having similar problems with the health service as me but is "fast tracked" as he has just got back from Afghanistan, which means he has been waiting 6 months for surgery because our health authority no longer provides the op, so they have to "buy" it from another health authority who prioritise their own patients and keep bumping him back (exactly the same problem I suffered, which meant I had 3 months of having a collapsed lung, completely detached and in agony, whilst no one would take responsibility, when the surgeon finally saw the state of me he couldn't believe I'd had to wait so long).

Sorry to go off onto my own "annoyance" but it's really relevant right now. I have to go to the council next to try and fight to get housing benefit sorted (again, another story of jobsworths who are happy to ruin people's lives).

Back to squatting. If you go on a train journey through many british cities there are many properties which are sealed up with steel over windows and doors, empty. Why can these not be made available to the homeless or sold off to housing associations to provide cheap rental accomodation? I have never understood this, we are spending money keeping squatters out instead of spending money housing the homeless. I might be oversimplifying, of course.

[eFestivals]

we are spending money keeping squatters out instead of spending money housing the homeless. I might be oversimplifying, of course.

Nope, not over-simplifying.

Even worse, this new law is completely nuts. The punishment for squatting is either a fine -which a squatter is unlikely to be able to pay, which is why they're squatting in the first place - or alternatively, some very well staffed and serviced accommodation - prison - at a cost hugely greater than would be the normal housing costs for that person.

Not only that, it's taken the costs of managing and dealing with squatters away from people wealthy enough to have an unused house (with the extra costs that puts upon society of having to create extra housing), and put them onto the taxpayer.

It's yet another gift to the already-too-rich.

[TheGayTent]

Shopkeepers giving me 10 australian cents and and 5 euro cents in my change

[Spartacus Mars]

Scotland criminalised squatting in the mid nineteenth century and the sky did not fall in.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

Scotland criminalised squatting in the mid nineteenth century and the sky did not fall in.

[Spartacus Mars]

I've seen a couple of completely different sides of squatting, I went to a lot of squatter parties in the Netherlands when I lived there, but also knew some Dutchies who'd been squatted too.

If the squatters are nice and take over long-abandoned buildings, even do them up a bit, they're amazing. But there are also utter toe-rags who'll use squatting rights as a legal variant of home invasion which they're perfectly willing to defend violently. I knew intelligent, aware, compassionate people who squatted long-abandoned government and industrial buildings, and knew people whose *homes* were occupied by thugs with baseball bats.

eFest is right that it's not right to make the homeless even more vulnerable, but neither is it right to let that compassion give power to selfish, hard, violent bastards.

= = =

On a more topical note I'm annoyed the facial mole I've got removed today is starting to itch...

I'm going to miss it, it was a large part of my Robert DeNiro impersonation. Bob DeNiro is easy to do. Get a facial mole and pretend you're sucking a lemon. Much kudos at any party...

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

I've had to deal with a load of the toe rag squatters in the course of my work. It took about 8 months of legal action to finally evict them. On the day of the eviction they claimed to not know we were coming. That was too late legally speaking and they knew it and left. I kind of felt sorry for them as they walked out with only limited belongings. I could tell one of them was a junkie and it kind of broke my heart.

Then I went inside the property and holy fuck they'd done about 80K's worth of damage. Everything was bust up, missing, vandalised etc. I knew the property well and it was in fine order before they got in. There was no need to destroy the place. They could have just lived there as the people before them did. Luckily the insurance paid out for a lot of the damage.

I wouldn't mind squatters who look after a place being in a property and then leaving when asked to do so because the things planned for that property were about to take place. It's the people who trash the property that are undesirable and who have ultimately helped to bring this legislation into force. They've let the side down really.

Edited September 1, 2012 by Yoghurt on a Stick

[eFestivals]

I wouldn't mind squatters who look after a place being in a property and then leaving when asked to do so because the things planned for that property were about to take place. It's the people who trash the property that are undesirable and who have ultimately helped to bring this legislation into force. They've let the side down really.

it's rather dumb to expect people who have been fucked over by society to give full respect to that society.

Remember, human need doesn't get more basic than the need for shelter. This is not about someone stealing an iPhone because they fancy the same ultimately pointless gadget as others.

I'm not trying to defend squatters perhaps smashing up a property - I know it happens, and on one level there's no need - but to expect those who have been forced outside of normal society to always act as tho they're an included member of society is never going to happen.

A more sensible world would recognise that it's cheaper to society to be inclusive than it is for society to be exclusive and also have to deal with the damage that brings about.

[Spindles]

it's rather dumb to expect people who have been fucked over by society to give full respect to that society.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

it's rather dumb to expect people who have been fucked over by society to give full respect to that society.

Remember, human need doesn't get more basic than the need for shelter. This is not about someone stealing an iPhone because they fancy the same ultimately pointless gadget as others.

I'm not trying to defend squatters perhaps smashing up a property - I know it happens, and on one level there's no need - but to expect those who have been forced outside of normal society to always act as tho they're an included member of society is never going to happen.

A more sensible world would recognise that it's cheaper to society to be inclusive than it is for society to be exclusive and also have to deal with the damage that brings about.

[eFestivals]

What's the point in destroying what is your own home?

But it's not their own home, is it?

It's somewhere they've managed to find to give them shelter, but where they know they'll be moved on sooner or later (and is mostly sooner). Society doesn't give a fuck about them and will kick them out onto the street - why should they give a fuck about a property from that society which doesn't give a fuck about them?

The damage to squatted properties doesn't happen in isolation from the damage being done to the people who squat.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

But it's not their own home, is it?

It's somewhere they've managed to find to give them shelter, but where they know they'll be moved on sooner or later (and is mostly sooner). Society doesn't give a fuck about them and will kick them out onto the street - why should they give a fuck about a property from that society which doesn't give a fuck about them?

The damage to squatted properties doesn't happen in isolation from the damage being done to the people who squat.

[Spindles]

I don't mind admitting that I nearly cried when I saw that. They had fuck all themselves but had the decency to look after another human being who needed help.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

It's self-defeating to not look after where your squatting. It was always one of the main defences against people who were against squatting in principle. If you make the environment better for everyone, you get people on your side

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

indeed, but I think a distinction should be made between squatting to live in a place and squat parties

[Spindles]

There was an item on the news about Brighton Beach after the last hot weekend, and how there was literally tons of crap left on the beach to clear up at the end of the day.

[grumpyhack]

A while later after Christmas I saw him again and he was with the street people from the Xmas shelter - they were looking after him. I don't mind admitting that I nearly cried when I saw that. They had fuck all themselves but had the decency to look after another human being who needed help.

[feral chile]

Talking of squatters, my house has been taken over by spiders. I accidentally drowned one this morning by dislodging it from the showerhead directly into the water stream. Seconds before I had my head under there to wash my hair.

Then, as I picked up the towel off the radiator, a big spider ran across the towel and disappeared behind the radiator. Could have been worse, I could have already had the towel wrapped around my head.

At least, I thought it was a big spider, until I saw the one on steroids that was flexing its muscles laughing at me out on the landing.

And just when I thought things couldn't get worse, as soon as I took my eyes off them, they vanished.

And there's nothing worse than knowing you have some spider giants terrorising you, waiting to leap out as soon as you drop your guard

Edited September 1, 2012 by feral chile

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

Talking of squatters, my house has been taken over by spiders. I accidentally drowned one this morning by dislodging it from the showerhead directly into the water stream. Seconds before I had my head under there to wash my hair.

Then, as I picked up the towel off the radiator, a big spider ran across the towel and disappeared behind the radiator. Could have been worse, I could have already had the towel wrapped around my head.

At least, I thought it was a big spider, until I saw the one on steroids that was flexing its muscles laughing at me out on the landing.

And just when I thought things couldn't get worse, as soon as I took my eyes off them, they vanished.

And there's nothing worse than knowing you have some spider giants terrorising you, waiting to leap out as soon as you drop your guard

[sifi]

Talking to spiders? Shit. I actually called one lived in my shower Colin.

Mind, I spend a inappropriate amount of time singing to my cats.