The Ultimate Line-up

[ShockTK]

Its very difficult to find good music that was produced >10 years ago. One of the main source of new bands for kids is magazines, websites - why would they write an article about a band from the 90s, let alone 80s or 70s. And then TV channels, sure, those channels will have their "top 20 songs of the 90s" but all rock stations will be filled with the more mainstream side of things, what sold well, etc.

[1karim]

Well, that's what I mean.

I'm 25 years old (26 whenever Leeds comes along) - as you can see from my taste in music, I'm not exactly the "trendiest" person in the world but I appreciate good music when I hear it, just the same as with films. I'm certainly open-minded to new music but I can't be arsed to sit around and tolerate w*nkers who casually feed from the bollocks the NME and Zane f**king Lowe supply them and tell them to listen to, and I'm too old and too indifferent to even bother to tune in.

The Dark Knight is a good film but when I hear a kid say to me that it's the greatest film ever made, 1. I put it down to ignorance, and 2. I put it down to the fact they just haven't experienced other films that are much better, and if they HAVE, then they haven't understood them.

It's the same with music.

Music to them stops at Radio 1 just as music to me, on the whole, stops post-'Ladies and Gentlemen, We Are Floating In Space' but the difference is the kids (?) who supply lists like those 3 did just strike me as the kind of apathetic few who really don't appreciate fine music or are willing to go searching for it.

I mean, are they fans of music or are they just fans of pop culture? I know which one I'd rather be in touch with.

[ShockTK]

As I said, I was posting a line up that I think would sell a lot of tickets, don't think you should start judging me and calling me a kid based on that! But hey, thats up to you

[XrtVra]

Although announcing sonic youth these days would get kids who shop at Urban Outfitters turning up just because theyre on their tshirts

Not saying its a bad thing, better than kids who heard sex on fire and use somebody on the radio and immediately wanted to see KoL at L/R despite not knowing any of their music, and also liking such tracks as everytime we touch - cascada and the promise - girls aloud

[DaveElNino]

People buy tickets in advance in the expectation that the line-up will be broadly similar to the years before. That was one of the big issues people had with the 2009 line-up - especially those who'd bought in the pre-sale. 2009 (especially with the headliners) bore little resemblance amongst the headliners to the heavier direction that the festival had taken in 2008 with Metallica and RATM.

Would Sonic Youth headlining have a large crowd? It'd be bigger than one of their regular crowds (I believe their last UK mainstream festival appearance saw them playing 3rd or 4th from top on the 3rd stage at V Festival), but without a line-up underneath it that represented previous years Reading line-ups it wouldn't come close to selling out. People who go because of the line-up would be put off by a band they haven't been exposed to headlining (much like Arcade Fire this year who I feel have only been posityioned as headliners as FR need a safe back-up for The Libertine). People who would go for Sonic Youth would be put off because it's Reading.

Is there a place for older music which has had greater time to gain critical acclaim? Definitely. Without commercial success however that place is nowhere near the top of the bill.

Edited April 3, 2010 by DaveElNino

[scottt]

Main Stage

Black Sabbath

Tool

Deftones

Dead Kennedys

Minor Threat

Lamb of God

Fugazi

Mastodon

Quicksand

Gorilla Biscuit

NME

Pavement

Neutral Milk Hotel

Nick Drake (post-being dead-era)

Main

Eminem

Beastie Boys

A Tribe Called Quest

Nas

Mobb Deep

Cypress Hill

Q-tip

Bone Thugs n Harmony

Immortal Technique

NME

Refused

Glassjaw

Dillinger Escape Plan

Converge

I cba to do a third day. Ive ran out of bands who deserve to be on a line up this good.

Edited April 3, 2010 by scottt

[1karim]

Selling tickets doesn't always warrant critical acclaim. They're not naturally synonymous with each other. It's not about how many people listen, it's about who listens. I'd rather be in a crowd packed full of Sonic Youth fans than I would a bunch of pop culture fans because then at least I can be sure those people are there for the music and vibe than just because "ITZ REdDING LOL!!!111 ZOMG!!!" - and believe me, if you announced Sonic Youth as a headliner, you'd be surprised at just how many people would turn up.

I mean, it says everything when most people get the tickets BEFORE the line-up is even announced. In all honesty, for me, the lineup (with the notable exclusion of Guns n Roses) does nothing. I'm waiting to see who's playing on the smaller stages. I bought the tickets because my girlfriend is certainly more in touch with popular culture than I am and it would be a nice birthday present for her, but even she will be baffled by the relatively shit line-up this year so I don't think she'll have any problems with joining me in a tent to watch somebody like, say, Spiritualized if they play.

[rockinthecasbah]

Nick Drake (post-being dead-era)

[ShockTK]

People buy tickets in advance in the expectation that the line-up will be broadly similar to the years before. That was one of the big issues people had with the 2009 line-up - especially those who'd bought in the pre-sale. 2009 (especially with the headliners) bore little resemblance amongst the headliners to the heavier direction that the festival had taken in 2008 with Metallica and RATM.

Would Sonic Youth headlining have a large crowd? It'd be bigger than one of their regular crowds (I believe their last UK mainstream festival appearance saw them playing 3rd or 4th from top on the 3rd stage at V Festival), but without a line-up underneath it that represented previous years Reading line-ups it wouldn't come close to selling out. People who go because of the line-up would be put off by a band they haven't been exposed to headlining (much like Arcade Fire this year who I feel have only been posityioned as headliners as FR need a safe back-up for The Libertine). People who would go for Sonic Youth would be put off because it's Reading.

Is there a place for older music which has greater time to gain critical acclaim? Definitely. Without commercial success however that place is nowhere near the top of the bill.

Edited April 3, 2010 by ShockTK

[XrtVra]

Wanna start "NWGM Festival" with me Shock? It stands for no w*nkers - good music

haha

[ShockTK]

The problem with your list, 1Karim, isn't the bands that appear on it, it's the fact the bands on it are just a composite of the most recent years' festivals. There is no development, there is no room for change, there are no alternative bands that you'd choose - it would be, "right, get a list of the bands Zane Lowe currently loves, get a list of bands that have appeared at the festival for the last 5 or 6 years and shove them on the main and NME stages at Reading and Leeds!"

If the same bands on the bill are the same bands that appeared there 2 or 3 years ago, do you know what that proves? Nothing is happening in music.

So how do you solve that problem? Shove a band on nobody has ever heard of or a shove a band on from the past from an era where something WAS happening. FR shouldn't cater to the people I've kindly called "w*nkers" (or people who are fans of popular culture), it should be catering to fans of music.

[ShockTK]

Wanna start "NWGM Festival" with me Shock? It stands for no w*nkers - good music

haha

[XrtVra]

I know a load of people who have gone to leeds and reading say, 2 or 3 years, and then stopped - simply because they had seen every band bar the headliners and the odd few that they wanted to at a previous L/R festival already, sure they might have new albums out, but on the whole, theyre never that different

[edit] haha, yeah, ATP is good, i wouldve gone to one already if my mates liked the music

Edited April 3, 2010 by rbranigan

[DaveElNino]

People buy tickets in advance because they don't care what the line-up is. The impressionable few just want to go purely for the fact that it's a popular place to go and be seen at the end of the summer. The line-up is, unfortunately, incidental to the nature of the festival now. It's just a background to a place people want to go to and hang out - no meaning, no purpose; just a place to go.

Bands like the few I mentioned, and rbranigan mentioned, would bring back some integrity to an otherwise fairly tedious weekend festival that has become nothing but a stomping ground for trendy w*nkers who pine for popular music and look for any excuse to shove their phones up in the air.

Look at my Saturday line-up, look at rbranigan's Sunday line-up - rich, varied, all crowd-pleasing, and above all else, the potential of being really f**king heavy. That's what you need at Reading or Leeds - a great, big giant f**king wake up call; an injection of life into an otherwise stale festival - musically, at least.

Shove Sonic Youth on the stage and who would complain? w*nkers.

When was the last time you were in a pub or out somewhere and actually took the time to listen to the lovely words of a complete w*nker? Never.

So what happens? Reading and Leeds loses its w*nkers, and tell me; how is that a bad thing?

[1karim]

The problem with your list, 1Karim, isn't the bands that appear on it, it's the fact the bands on it are just a composite of the most recent years' festivals. There is no development, there is no room for change, there are no alternative bands that you'd choose - it would be, "right, get a list of the bands Zane Lowe currently loves, get a list of bands that have appeared at the festival for the last 5 or 6 years and shove them on the main and NME stages at Reading and Leeds!"

If the same bands on the bill are the same bands that appeared there 2 or 3 years ago, do you know what that proves? Nothing is happening in music.

So how do you solve that problem? Shove a band on nobody has ever heard of or a shove a band on from the past from an era where something WAS happening. FR shouldn't cater to the people I've kindly called "w*nkers" (or people who are fans of popular culture), it should be catering to fans of music.

[cheeseisamazing]

Dream lReading line up

(only mainstage as cba for nme)

friday

Led Zeplin

Special guest: David Bowie

Vampire Weekend

Madness

The Wombats

The enemy

The coral

Saturday

Pink Floyd

The Stokes

Franz Ferdinand

Pendulum

Panic! At the disco

Dan Le Sac V scroopish pip

Sunday

Rage Against The Machine

Pixies

Slipknot

Lost Prophets

Bullet for my Valentine

Blood Hound Gang

Fight star

Skindread

This is ment to be practical but obviously david bowie wouldn’t be special guets

And pink Floyd and led zepplin wouldnt play,

[ShockTK]

As for the festival being stale - in the seven years I've been going there have always been a large number of acts recycled from recent years. That's because in the majority of cases their popularity has increased and they attract a large number of people.

[BlackHole2006]

My dream reading line up:

Friday

Pixies

The Breeders

Throwing Muses

Belly

Penguin Cafe Orchestra

Hypnotic Brass Ensemble

OPENERS- Local Reading band

Saturday

The Flaming Lips

Dinosaur Jr

Mercury Rev

The Fall

AIM

OPENERS- Local Reading Band

Sunday

Sonic Youth

Pavement

Lou Reed

Sebadoh

The Grifters

Luna

OPENERS- Local Reading Band

[ShockTK]

My dream reading line up:

Friday

Pixies

The Breeders

Throwing Muses

Belly

Penguin Cafe Orchestra

Hypnotic Brass Ensemble

OPENERS- Local Reading band

Saturday

The Flaming Lips

Dinosaur Jr

Mercury Rev

The Fall

AIM

OPENERS- Local Reading Band

Sunday

Sonic Youth

Pavement

Lou Reed

Sebadoh

The Grifters

Luna

OPENERS- Local Reading Band

[DaveElNino]

You have the benefit of looking at the line-ups in hindsight - and I imagine that the headliners and such that were booked between 1989 and 2000 were the popular alternative acts of their day. It's not an argument that I can actually have though as I have no idea what acts were the popular ones of their day before 2000 as I was very much wrapped up in a commerical radio and TV bubble until 2000.

That said I look at 1999 - the last year of the "stellar" line-ups - and I'd have recognised Blur (Country House), Divine Comedy (National Express), Reef (Place Your Hands), Chemical Brothers (Let Forever Be), Space (Neighbourhood), The Offspring (Pretty Fly), Terrorvision (Tequila), Catatonia (Mulder & Scully), and Fun Lovin' Criminals (Scooby Snacks) at the top of the line-up from their mainstream exposure so I imagine that the festivals ethos of booking popular alternative acts didn't suddenly change from 1999 to 2000.

But going back to my original point. You have the advantage of looking at the line-ups in hindsight. You've clearly embraced the alternative music scene of the 90s in a way that many Reading goers have embraced the "alternative" music scene of the past decade. It's just that the alternative music scene of the past decade has had a much greater mainstream crossover than most of the output from the 90s had, meaning that when FR book the popular alternative acts they are ones that actually appeal to a much bigger audience - which does unfortunately include a sizeable proportion of w*nkers as you put it. It's also music that doesn't appeal so much to you - as you yourself have said music to you stopped with an album that was released in 1997, so it's unsurprising that the line-up of a festival which keeps pace with modern music trends (with the occasional throwback to the past) doesn't have the exact sort of line-up that appeals to you.

Edited April 3, 2010 by DaveElNino

[pink_triangle]

One thing that annoys me about this board is music snobbery and some peoples opinion that if they look harder for their music and like less popular band that they have better taste in music and are better music fans. People look for different things in music and if you like a song/band who cares if it comes from radio 1, nme or an obscure album you discovered in a record fair.

This whole "nme brainwashed" concept is used often on here for fans of commerical indie and is ridiculous in my opinion. Whats wrong with people hearing about a band in nne, downloading them and enjoying it. Its just a way of discovering music that people enjoy. A lot of people on here seem to have the idea that people hear about a band in nme, download a song, dislike it but then decide to like it because nme say they should. I think the amount of people who do this are very small. I am not ashamed at all that i have heard about bands in nme, radio 1, mtv2 and downloaded them to find out more. Some I have liked and bought an album, some I have hated and headed in the opposite direction when I have seen their names at a festival. Music media helps me to discover new music, I am aware that the major record labels have a heavy influence on this media but I have other interests in my life and this suits me.

[ShockTK]

You have the benefit of looking at the line-ups in hindsight - and I imagine that the headliners and such that were booked between 1989 and 2000 were the popular alternative acts of their day.

[DaveElNino]

Comparing low down and main stage openers to headliners isn't an acceptable comparison, and I'm pretty sure you realise that - especially as your argument is actually pretty valid for recent years without resorting to using Blink 182 as your basis for recent comparison.

My argument was looking at the top few bands - which was where I felt you were arguing there should be much more diversity, which I don't think completely fits in with the past nature of the festival.

Looking further down the mainstage I definitely think you have a point - and this is where I'm obviously not as clued up on my Reading history. It does seem that FR seem to have played it safer with the early day bands on the mainstage over recent years - looking at 2007 the only band which seem to be a little out of the ordinary early on were Gogol Bordello, which doesn't compare too well to previous years. My feeling is that it's the growth of other festivals who cater much better for an audience that'll appreciate a more alternative style of music (such as the aforementioned ATP weekends) who have probably - to some extent - stopped FR from getting edgier bands for early in the day, and so I can't see it neccesarily changing any time soon - especially as there are more than enough landfill indie/metal/emo/pop-punk bands to fill up the early mainstage.

[ShockTK]

Comparing low down and main stage openers to headliners isn't an acceptable comparison, and I'm pretty sure you realise that - especially as your argument is actually pretty valid for recent years without resorting to using Blink 182 as your basis for recent comparison.

[rockinthecasbah]

She is more likely to go 'Ewwwwwwwwww' at the concept of self-harm than actually do it.