Plastic Surgery

[jump]

like a tit w*nk...?

that's about it, isn't it?

is that why women have breast enlargements?

[worm]

is that why women have breast enlargements?

[bunique]

You can motorboat too.

[rachbon]

like a tit w*nk...?

that's about it, isn't it?

is that why women have breast enlargements?

[rachbon]

You can motorboat too.

[worm]

i bet most of them are to make them look better

[worm]

I think having surgery is quite a step further than tattooing and piercing

[worm]

but cultures change. One day fat is attractive, then next day its size 8.

fashion has always puzzled me

Edited December 1, 2010 by worm

[sifi]

well... I dunno..

growing up in the sixties, there was a feeling that going phfwoar over the size of a girls tits was kind of old fashioned

what happened..?

[worm]

I guess we reverted to our original programming. Not that I audibly go "phfwoar" if an attractive lady walks past. In fact the word "phfwoar" doesn't come into it at all.

[jump]

From the horse's mouth...

"Bigger boobs make me feel more womanly and I don't think women should be flat-chested"

"I tell you what - anyone reading this, just stay natural because I've been through all this and look at the state of me..."

"When I saw my boobs I was disappointed because they looked big and I wanted them to be a lot smaller... My words to the doctor beforehand were: 'I want to go a lot smaller. More pert. More stuck-on looking. But I still want people to think I've got big boobs.... I'm really disappointed. In fact I'm going back to the States to get them re-done... They look fine in bra but they hang too low when I'm standing up and it's really bad when I'm lying down. There's about a four inch gap... I've had three boob jobs done before and I've seen enough other ones to know what they should look like and they're not right... I've also got indents so you can see where the implant is sitting and there's excess skin so the doctor either hasn't filled the skin up enough or he hasn't removed enough skin."

Jordan

Edited December 1, 2010 by jump

[sifi]

having topless girls with big tits helping to sell everything under the sun is our original programming..?

Edited December 1, 2010 by sifi

[worm]

because we judge people more and more on things like how they look, and how big their tits are. Is that good?

[rachbon]

Then you want an image of people who don't judge solely by appearance. That's still an image Tony.

[worm]

you're giving me the heebie jeebies the way you keep saying "tony" when you're replying to him.

[worm]

that sounds like the beginning of a discussion on what an 'image' is, which I think we've done before...

[worm]

essentially, I don't care what any individual wants to do with themselves... body piercing, tattoing (when they change their mind years later, then it's a problem.... for them), breast enlargements, etc etc.

But it all seems to be part of a bigger picture which 'feels' wrong. We have pubescent boys getting their ideas from porn sites, thinking that it's 'normal' to ejaculate over a womans tits. These are male driven fantasies, and some girls are getting confused by requests from boys to do it. It's all about male domination, and it's not good.

It seems like a backward step for girls (sometimes) to be pandering to mens wishes... it's page 3 taken a step further.

Ultimately, people should be able to do what they want to and with their bodies. But is it really what they want.. how much of it is down to peer pressure?

[feral chile]

This is so interesting my brain's buzzing. A few things - Sartre's idea of the Look of the Other - as subjective beings we are free, but when we're subject to another's image of us, this objectifies us. Thus, the feminist idea of women 'being seen' as 'sex objects'. And feminists trying to avoid this by denying their sexuality.

But - and it's a big but (no pun intended!) Where does sexuality end and objectification begin? We still want to be desired and to think of ourselves as desirable. Why should women feel ashamed of wanting to be attractive to men, Isn't that part of sexuality?

The big problem I have with feminism is that, well meaning as it is, it still tries to define what women should want. It's sexist to want to stay at home and look after your children, you should want to have a career. it's sexist to want to have big boobs/wear makeup/bleach your hair, you're pandering to men's whims.

Well, maybe women want these things just because it's their choice. It's patronising to suggest they're brainless robots programmed by society. And simplistic, since there's a reciprocal relationship between people and 'culture'.

And we are all animals, albeit socialised ones. We can't mate unless we make ourselves attractive to the preferred mate.

Edited December 1, 2010 by feral chile

[feral chile]

but cultures change. One day fat is attractive, then next day its size 8.

fashion has always puzzled me

Edited December 1, 2010 by feral chile

[feral chile]

it's not just being seen as sex objects, they are treated as such. Men are too, but they're (generally) in control... which just makes it daft.

When I first became aware of feminism, that's all I was aware of... that women wanted to be treated equally and not just as sex objects. Inevitably bothj men and women hi-jacked it for other purposes. It didn't take long for womens liberation to be pointless... we all need to be liberated, and at this moment in time, I don't think much progress is bening made. I believe that to be inevitable too... there's a bit of shifting goes on, and then there's a period of settling and re-apraising before the next shift happens

yes, but it's like artists trying to cater to an audience that they haven't quite worked out. A genuine selfish expression might not appeal to everyone, but whoever it does appeal to, will 'get it' and love it for that. Physically changing our appearance to try and 'catch' someone we probably don't even know yet... why? Wouldn't you rather be with someone who's a little more happy in their 'self'. Surely it would make for a more satisfying relationship.

that's why it doesn't really mean anything anymore... not to me, anyway

we want it all ways. We want a barbie doll with an intellect who doesn't mind us treating them however we choose to treat them

some women are happy with that...

[Digi]

It's not just Hello magazine though is it. It's culture in its entirity.

Cosmetic surgery did nothing to fix their faces. Had it done so it would have been called surgery.

Edited December 1, 2010 by Digi

[krisskross]

mmm... I wonder if attraction based on appearance has always existed? Regardless of whether that idealised image is fat/thin, blonde/dark etc.?

[The Nal]

I was married when I first studied psychology as an undergraduate, and I still remember the patronising disapproval of the female psychology lecturers. They tried to interview me once at a party, asking me why I'd settled down. Because I chose to was not a satisfactory answer it would seem. Yet they called themselves feminists, and they denied me my right to choose!

[worm]

where they listen to each other... I do what I can, which is pretty insignificant

it's not just that they have access to it, some (many?) of them are aspiring to it. I think it has everything to do with images in general.

[worm]

Of course it has. As in every species on the planet. If someones healthy they're more attractive to the other sex.