World Cup 2010

[Tugger2k]

while being as hit & miss as Theo, but less dangerous.

I'd take Lennon over SWP, but I'm not sure that Fabio will. He appears to think SWP has some versatility (which, let's face it, Lennon & Theo defo don't), which I reckon will have SWP on the plane before Lennon.

[Cardboard Box City]

world cup? who needs the world cup when you have the kirin cup sitting in your cabinet!

[ampersand]

Japan have qualified for World Cups since? I thought we were talking about Scotland?

[Cardboard Box City]

we are. has there been a kirin cup since that we weren't invited to in fear that we'd win it again?

[eFestivals]

to be fair neil, if you look at lennons performances in the 18 months before the injury, for both spurs and england, hes been more effective than walcott. hes not as deadly in the box, but take a look at his stats for this season on cross accuracy % and pass completion %. i think youll be surprised.

id start with lennon, maybe because im biased, but more because i understand that the % of crucial goals scored in international football are scored in the last half hour. let lennon terrorize the left back for an hour, and unleash walcott, who while being less effective at supply, is much more deadly in front of goal

and let swp sun himself in malaga

but thats just my opinion

I disagree with the effectiveness - Theo's crosses, tho there's perhaps fewer of them, are far more dangerous.

I'd agree that Lennon is a better all-round player (makes a greater contribution all around the pitch, while Theo is more of a one-trick pony), and runs himself into a dead-end less than both SWP and Theo, but the crosses are less to feet and to much less of a dangerous position.... so ultimately Theo's less is more. Theo is a game-changer; Lennon is more of just another player in the team (I'm not meaning that in a disparaging way).

A part of me agrees with what you say about Lennon starting and bringing Theo on later, but the problem with that is that by later nerves have got to the team. England are a team that need an early goal for them to be at their best, and who look more and more lost and nervy the longer the game goes on without a goal.

[Tugger2k]

I disagree with the effectiveness - Theo's crosses, tho there's perhaps fewer of them, are far more dangerous.

I'd agree that Lennon is a better all-round player (makes a greater contribution all around the pitch, while Theo is more of a one-trick pony), and runs himself into a dead-end less than both SWP and Theo, but the crosses are less to feet and to much less of a dangerous position.... so ultimately Theo's less is more. Theo is a game-changer; Lennon is more of just another player in the team (I'm not meaning that in a disparaging way).

A part of me agrees with what you say about Lennon starting and bringing Theo on later, but the problem with that is that by later nerves have got to the team. England are a team that need an early goal for them to be at their best, and who look more and more lost and nervy the longer the game goes on without a goal.

[ampersand]

There's one every year. Japan won the last one against Chile and Belgium, instead of when Scotland triumphed in 2006 over the mighty Japan and Bulgaria

[Cardboard Box City]

i'm not seeing your logic.

[eFestivals]

i'll admit that theo's injuries have hindered him, but he doesnt seem to have progressed much since the hatrick in croatia (which i thought would be his springboard) whereas azza has really improved his all round game.

Theo is a proven big game player.

That's something that Lennon doesn't have, and is a vital ingredient for any team that's going to get a reasonable way.

[Cardboard Box City]

Theo is a proven big game player.

[The Nal]

Theo's crosses, tho there's perhaps fewer of them, are far more dangerous.

[ampersand]

Apart from maybe 3 games I can think of where hes put in a flash here and there, hes been shite. Not average, just shite. Dont get the whole "Theo" thing at all. Hes quick but he cant play football. Hes been an embarrassment for the Gunners this year too.

[Tugger2k]

Theo is a proven big game player.

That's something that Lennon doesn't have, and is a vital ingredient for any team that's going to get a reasonable way.

[eFestivals]

Like when? That League Cup final?

Like the Croatia match where he got a hatrick, in what was considered to be England's most important game of the qualies when the draw was made.

Like the recent Arsenal/Barca match where he changed the game to give what just about everyone thought was a stunning result within the context of the match.

There's been others too. I agree he's not hugely consistent, but he has far better consistency across those bigger matches than he has for all his games taken together.

[Jaybles]

Its a tough one because Lennons form has been much more impressive than Theos over the last year.

But when Theo does decide to show up to a game he can turn it on its head and have a major influence.

Consistantly good Vs Occasional brilliance?

[eFestivals]

9 out of 10 of his crosses dont clear the near foot of the first defender. Hes a hopeless crosser of the ball, hopeless.

that's complete bollox. The defender is left behind on a far bigger ratio than that.

And when he gets his crosses in, the proportion that end up on the toe of a teammate with a clear shooting chance around 10 yards from goal can't be matched. It's for precisely this reason that he's more dangerous than Lennon.

[eFestivals]

Its a tough one because Lennons form has been much more impressive than Theos over the last year.

That's something I don't disagree with. However, Theo has spent so much time injured that it's hardly surprising.

And injuries are a part of my thinking too - Theo is properly out of his injuries and played a number of games, while Lennon isn't and has hardly played since coming back, and hasn't been back to his best. Perhaps he'll re-find that form immediately, but perhaps he won't.

But when Theo does decide to show up to a game he can turn it on its head and have a major influence.

exactly. Lennon, whatever else he has, doesn't have that.

[Tugger2k]

that's complete bollox. The defender is left behind on a far bigger ratio than that.

And when he gets his crosses in, the proportion that end up on the toe of a teammate with a clear shooting chance around 10 yards from goal can't be matched. It's for precisely this reason that he's more dangerous than Lennon.

[Cardboard Box City]

Like the Croatia match where he got a hatrick, in what was considered to be England's most important game of the qualies when the draw was made.

[Tugger2k]

That's something I don't disagree with. However, Theo has spent so much time injured that it's hardly surprising.

And injuries are a part of my thinking too - Theo is properly out of his injuries and played a number of games, while Lennon isn't and has hardly played since coming back, and hasn't been back to his best. Perhaps he'll re-find that form immediately, but perhaps he won't.

exactly. Lennon, whatever else he has, doesn't have that.

[eFestivals]

except of course the stats for the last 18 months dont bear that out.

stats for that are available? Where? I'd be hugely surprised if they are.

Stats for assists don't show that, if that's what you're working by. They only show where someone has scored: that's beyond what any provider of the ball can influence.

Stats for passes completed don't show that either.

Edited May 14, 2010 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

Any other stand out performances in an England shirt?

he's had few opportunities since due to injury.

Or the away leg when Andy Grey was heard saying: "That Walcott's shite, isn't he?"

The man who makes Lawro look intelligent.

[Jaybles]

Stats for assists don't show that, if that's what you're working by. They only show where someone has scored: that's beyond what any provider of the ball can influence.

[eFestivals]

englad 5 croatia 1

im not saying hes the same player - but to say he cant do it, when he already has - is argumentative hogwash

Normal play (rather than outstanding play) that results in goals is not the same thing.

[eFestivals]

Although the provider can deliver a better quality of ball to give the striker a better chance. So he has influence on scoring.

yep - but if the player the ball makes an airshot (hello Lumpard) then that's hardly the provider's fault is it?

I mention Fatso there cos I remember him doing just that, but a similar thing has happened countless times with Arsenal too - including against Barca when Andy Grey thought he was shit when he was the only Arsenal player creating a number of scoring chances.