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Guest XrtVra

By Guest XrtVra
in Reading & Leeds Festivals

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XrtVra Newbie

XrtVra

Posted
Posted

Id just rather see two way arguements, I don't want them to leave. At the moment the most people have to say for themselves is "you're a twat*" - why not stop being touchy, act more civilised and reply with something witty in itself, or if there isn't something to say, accept it.

*or similar

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feral chile Apprentice

feral chile

Posted
Posted (edited)
Indeed.

You can't have intelligent conversations or discussions with some people - the same can apply to real-life outside of message boards too. On here on message boards, I think people are given free reign to contribute to conversations they otherwise wouldn't be able to contribute to in real life.

The problem is on here, a person gets themselves involved in a conversation that is way over their heads or level of understanding and the minute people expose this weakness, they feel shoved into a corner and try to fight their way back out - which is when you get the casual insults and childish name-calling.

In real life, if 2 people, maybe 3 or 4 people, are having a conversation about something and the fifth person doesn't understand what the other people are talking about, generally they tend not to say anything because they realise that they're not intelligent enough to contribute anything to that conversation but they're intelligent enough to know that, if they did, then they would embarrass themselves.

The thick people are those who realise neither - which is when you get the odd one or two arguing over what defines a Metal band.

Edited by feral chile
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eFestivals Mentor

eFestivals

Posted
Posted
No, the less socially gifted people are those who don't understand the need to adapt their language or level of discussion to include everyone in the group. It's a marketable skill too, the ability to converse with people of all levels of ability and from all walks of life, without condescension or sarcasm.

In my real life, if I saw someone being excluded from the conversation, I'd either clarify what we were talking about or change the subject to something to which we could all contribute.

spot on. Any forum is only as good as the people that use it.

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feral chile Apprentice

feral chile

Posted
Posted (edited)
I don't think the idea behind what I was saying was to exclude people from conversation or to deny them their right to respond. I'm just speaking from personal experience in real life, where 3 or 4 people are sitting around in a pub debating politics (or whatever) and then a fifth person sits down and chooses not to add something because they don't understand the conversation. It's not a case of people being excluded; it's them making a self-conscious decision not to get involved because they don't understand what everybody else is talking about. It's the same with somebody who comes into a conversation mid-way through and stays silent until they make a decision to say something when the topic has changed.

What I think about in a social situation like that is, "do I cater to the majority of people who DO understand what's being said or do I dumb the tone of the conversation down remarkably to patronise the person who DOESN'T understand and risk alienating the majority?"

On here, I think the problem users face (which I think the OP is alluding to) is that those with an opinion, valid and invalid in equal measure, feel as if they can’t have a conversation without fear of upsetting at least one person who doesn’t understand what people are talking about anyway. They tread on eggshells because they face the risk of upsetting the minority of those who - rather than contribute to conversation (because they can’t) get involved in something they don't understand, and because they don't understand it, they get angry.

Anger is exacerbated by use of "big words", the anger then turns into an argument, the “intelligent” users’ defensive mechanism is to condescend to the “dumb” user, the “dumb” user then resorts to name-calling because it’s the only way they know how to respond, people become more and more frustrated with each other... and then the arguments attract the attention of moderators whose job it is to, sort of, analyse the situation and then act (fairly and unfairly).

Personally, I don’t think it’s a moderator’s job to get involved in anything until something actually happens, like Police do in real life (the moderators of reality), but what happens after that is – well, paranoia, really. People feel as if they can’t have a discussion with somebody on a reasonable level (like I hope we’re doing now) because they fear the minute somebody else (who doesn’t understand the conversation) gets involved, it’ll turn into an argument again, the threads get locked, the users get banned, etc, etc, etc.

I think, at the end of the day, it’s not a case of purposefully excluding anybody; it’s just that people should make a self-conscious decision, like they would in real-life, to not get involved in something they don’t understand because if they do then they’ll probably just end up getting frustrated - as you can see from the various threads on here and on any board.

Edited by feral chile
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feral chile Apprentice

feral chile

Posted
Posted (edited)
See, what happened with the 40th Anniversary thread was - we were discussing, off-hand, that in the past 20 years there have only really been a handful of Metal bands who'd played there (Reading/Leeds) and I used the example of Slipknot of a Metal band who'd played. It was a fairly reasonable discussion, there was no antagonism aimed at anybody, we were each providing points intelligently...

"Slipknot aren't a Metal band"

Huh?

So from then on the thread became 2 or 3 people arguing why Slipknot are a Metal band and some lad arguing why they aren't. Most of the points we provided were salient and valid (even going so far, in my case, to direct the lad to the MySpace page where even Slipknot say they're a Metal band). Evidence stacked up against this poor, hapless lad who provides nothing but circular logic to back up his point, and it gets to the stage where he calls me an "internet hard-man", starts behaving like a child (he was 16, by the way) and the whole discussion becomes a bit of a joke.

Enter Moderator.

Anyway, the point being to bring this back to some context, he shouldn't have got involved in a debate regarding a subject he clearly knew nothing about to begin with, or one he clearly stood no chance of winning when he found out what it was about.

I'll happily admit that I haven't been here as long as some people - I started using this board around the end of March to find out more about the festival - but for every intelligent discussion or 'pisstake thread', there's always been at least one user who alters the flow to make it a more serious affair and take away the novelty of it.

Most people with intelligence - especially if they have absolutely no idea what other people are talking about - have at least some modicum of sense to realise when they shouldn't stick their noses in, and that generally applies to real life situations too.

I mean, the ironic thing about what I'm saying now is that we're talking about these things happening on other threads ON a thread where none of it is happening.

Edited by feral chile
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Matticus Newbie

Matticus

Posted
Posted

this forum represents the large majority of people who go to reading nowadays. Unfortunately most of them are utter shites!

Its hard to have a deep meaning full discussions of bands at a festival when most of the people who go would suggest Kings Of Leon as there favorite band

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Vieuphoria Newbie

Vieuphoria

Posted
Posted

That being said.... Kings Of Leon were perfectly credible and well recieved band up to and including their headlinin Glasto. After that when they got huge... people didn't like them anymore. They have 4 very good albums, one is very popular. I realise what you said was mearly a passing comment, and i do agree with you, Just y'know... i don't understand the huge backlash against them now really.

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Dan R Apprentice

Dan R

Posted
Posted
That being said.... Kings Of Leon were perfectly credible and well recieved band up to and including their headlinin Glasto. After that when they got huge... people didn't like them anymore. They have 4 very good albums, one is very popular. I realise what you said was mearly a passing comment, and i do agree with you, Just y'know... i don't understand the huge backlash against them now really.
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rexclark Newbie

rexclark

Posted
Posted

This has nothing to do with what bands are playing the festival. You get dickheads liking all genres.

The problem here is a complete lack of respect for other posters. Fair enough there are threads I don't get involved in because I have f**k all knowledge of the subject but If I did get involved I'd like to think my point, however valid or invalid would at least be took on board rather than being made look like a fool for a small groups entertainment.

This forum is for everyone and everyone should be welcomed, I'm pretty sure there are plenty of people who won't bother posting as they think there's no point as they'll just get belittled. I certainly would avoid this place if I was a "newbie".

I'm pretty sure in real life if everyone met over a beer we could get on great and surely thats the way things should be on here?

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feral chile Apprentice

feral chile

Posted
Posted
This has nothing to do with what bands are playing the festival. You get dickheads liking all genres.

The problem here is a complete lack of respect for other posters. Fair enough there are threads I don't get involved in because I have f**k all knowledge of the subject but If I did get involved I'd like to think my point, however valid or invalid would at least be took on board rather than being made look like a fool for a small groups entertainment This forum is for everyone and everyone should be welcomed, I'm pretty sure there are plenty of people who won't bother posting as they think there's no point as they'll just get belittled. I certainly would avoid this place if I was a "newbie".

I'm pretty sure in real life if everyone met over a beer we could get on great and surely thats the way things should be on here?

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