Football 2010-2011

[Langdale Wolf]

Brilliant.

What are you doing snooping round Utd forums?

[The Nal]

Someone linked to it on the Wolves forum I use.

The Enola Gay picture is my favourite.

Edited July 13, 2010 by The Nal

[eFestivals]

In my experience of watching JC play that exact role (live over 70 times), he didn't once do what you claim 'he always does'.

Funny...

Yep, it's funny that you've never once seen him cause any goals to be ruled offside by his greed for the ball and his inability to stop himself getting too far forwards, seeing as he used to do it all the time. The only reason he doesn't now is because the way the offside rule is worked has changed in his favour.

He cost Chelsea at least 5 goals in one of his first seasons there. He's also cost England goals by the same thing.

Individual skills-wise he's a great player. The way he works those skills into the teams he's played for defo makes him less good.

[The Nal]

Yep, it's funny that you've never once seen him cause any goals to be ruled offside by his greed for the ball and his inability to stop himself getting too far forwards, seeing as he used to do it all the time. The only reason he doesn't now is because the way the offside rule is worked has changed in his favour.

He cost Chelsea at least 5 goals in one of his first seasons there. He's also cost England goals by the same thing.

Individual skills-wise he's a great player. The way he works those skills into the teams he's played for defo makes him less good.

[TheGayTent]

Yep, it's funny that you've never once seen him cause any goals to be ruled offside by his greed for the ball and his inability to stop himself getting too far forwards, seeing as he used to do it all the time. The only reason he doesn't now is because the way the offside rule is worked has changed in his favour.

He cost Chelsea at least 5 goals in one of his first seasons there. He's also cost England goals by the same thing.

Individual skills-wise he's a great player. The way he works those skills into the teams he's played for defo makes him less good.

[eFestivals]

You're missing the point somewhat. I said (because it's true) that he didn't do as you describe when he was playing a central attacking midfield role.

Which is very different to playing on the left or the right in a 4-3-3 formation, or as an (unnatural) winger in a conventional 4-4-2.

I guess though you won't be able to grasp the above facts as

1) It's been 7+ years since he played that role regularly

2) He wasn't often on the box in those days

While I can't be sure now where he was playing in those games (tho I accept that most if not all will have been as winger), I just can't believe he suddenly becomes a disciplined player merely by a change of position.

Accepting what you say about him playing to position in the distant past, I think it's far more likely that he became indisciplined for whatever reason wherever he's playing in more recent years, than him able to keep to discipline in one position but not another.

[TheGayTent]

While I can't be sure now where he was playing in those games (tho I accept that most if not all will have been as winger), I just can't believe he suddenly becomes a disciplined player merely by a change of position.

Accepting what you say about him playing to position in the distant past, I think it's far more likely that he became indisciplined for whatever reason wherever he's playing in more recent years, than him able to keep to discipline in one position but not another.

[ralph250]

That's £35M depreciation in asset value of Man Utd each year - another thing which shows the claims of a 1.5Bn bid are bollox.

Edited July 13, 2010 by ralph250

[eFestivals]

So in effect, what you are actually saying is that old saggy face managed to manage his indiscipline, but Ranieri, Mourinho, Grant, Scolari, Hiddink, and Ancelotti haven't been able to?

Nope, I wasn't thinking that at all. I was thinking it down to Cole only (along with his not small ego, of how he's always the best player on the field and so it's vital that he kicks every ball himself).

But I've got to laugh. The angle you're taking there is "those are great managers you're saying have failed to properly manage Cole", and are suggesting I'm nuts for suggesting them as not managing him properly. Yet you've done nothing different, cos you've as good as said that they've failed to recognise how he's best used.

[eFestivals]

goodwill amortization is not a real expense.

Yet it's also not free money. It's still a cost to the club.

The accounts - and the view you've taken on it - is that it's free money. Yet it's not, it's an accounting fiddle. The "free money" view of such things is what ultimately did for Lehmans and Enron, and it'll do for Utd no less if they regard it as free money.

Edited July 13, 2010 by eFestivals

[ste4_20]

I love the Blanca StreetFighter II one.

In other news, Sunderland in for Carrick apparently. 10 mill.

God bless Steve Bruce.

[TheGayTent]

Nope, I wasn't thinking that at all. I was thinking it down to Cole only (along with his not small ego, of how he's always the best player on the field and so it's vital that he kicks every ball himself).

But I've got to laugh. The angle you're taking there is "those are great managers you're saying have failed to properly manage Cole", and are suggesting I'm nuts for suggesting them as not managing him properly. Yet you've done nothing different, cos you've as good as said that they've failed to recognise how he's best used.

[eFestivals]

But I do think you're mad for suggesting the ridiculous argument that you have. As on other subjects, I tend to believe that's because you don't often actually watch football matches.

Yeah, but there's solid factual proof that your belief's about me are your invented fantasies - did you go an buy that issue of PE a couple of weeks ago as I suggested by PM? I wonder why no apology came back for you calling me a liar multiple times in the light of that indisputable proof.

To people change? Do players change? Then it's not such a daft argument after all, eh?

My take is that he had a bad bit of head-swelling as a result of his move to Chelski, and from that comes the change in his on-field discipline. There's no less substance behind that view than your own - they're both simply our opinions, both yet to be disproven.

[The Nal]

I rate him, but it all seems to be based on the assumption that Hargreaves will return soon.

[TheGayTent]

Yeah, but there's solid factual proof that your belief's about me are your invented fantasies - did you go an buy that issue of PE a couple of weeks ago as I suggested by PM? I wonder why no apology came back for you calling me a liar multiple times in the light of that indisputable proof.

To people change? Do players change? Then it's not such a daft argument after all, eh?

My take is that he had a bad bit of head-swelling as a result of his move to Chelski, and from that comes the change in his on-field discipline. There's no less substance behind that view than your own - they're both simply our opinions, both yet to be disproven.

[ralph250]

Yet it's also not free money. It's still a cost to the club.

[eFestivals]

No idea what PE is. I shall go visit my PMs. I'm sure it's there along with the bragging about knowing a story that was about to hit the headlines. Only you didn't actually state what the story was and needless to say the story didn't come out. Then followed that up with some par for the course Neil moral high ground.

As I said to you shortly after, it didn't come out cos WHU said they'd shit on the player. You'll have to wait until after the player's retirement.

(I doubt the part that would be of most interest to tabloids is news to you. The bits between the player and WHU very probably are - they've certainly not been reported in the press, or gossiped about on forums and the like).

But anyway, I was referring to a claim of yours to know everything about a subject, including knowing everything about things you've admitted to knowing nothing about. That's extremely clever.

Nice to see that you've chosen to ignore the majority of my previous post - presumably because it was bang on the money and you knew it.

yeah, I ignored it so much I stated it was your own non-evidenced* based opinion, no different to mine.

(* recent evidence)

Do people change? Rarely. Do players change? Rarely.

Yeah, that's right. No young rated player has ever turned to shit, eh?

(I'm not suggesting Cole has turned to shit. I'm stating the indisputable truth that hundreds of highly rated players have changed far more than Cole would have had to to fit my take on things).

I still believe, for a logical reason, JC's best position is as an attacking central midfielder.

And that's a view I've not questioned.

What I have said is that I don't think he'd look any less flawed playing in that position nowadays. Neither you nor me is able to know if that's the case or not until he gets the chance to show what he does in that position nowadays.

[TheGayTent]

As I said to you shortly after, it didn't come out cos WHU said they'd shit on the player. You'll have to wait until after the player's retirement.

(I doubt the part that would be of most interest to tabloids is news to you. The bits between the player and WHU very probably are - they've certainly not been reported in the press, or gossiped about on forums and the like).

[eFestivals]

.... means your double paying are you not? ....

If I buy a business for £10m, where the factory and machinery is worth £1m and I'm paying £9m for the goodwill (to be amortised over 10 years). If I'm improving profit, retaining or improving the customer base, remaining a market leader etc, then in 10 years, the business isn't gonna be worth £1m. The business isn't losing value.

I'd at least expect to get my £10m back, and probably much more if improving prospective profits.

Notice how you've fallen into your own trap there?

If you write off the value over a time period but are then thinking that the value is still there, what does the write-off in value apply to, and what does it mean in the real world rather than in an accountant's books?

At best it's a meaningless accounting fiddle, that hits back (and hits back harder) when you sell-up. Given that Utd are in the strange legal position where the club own the club, that's a huge debt being accumulated by Utd while being 'unseen' in the accounts.

At worst, it's a way of hiding massive accounting fraud.

It's really not something that should be giving you more confidence in their financial position, but the opposite. Things like that get done to manipulate the accounts into giving a false impression of the real financial position, they aren't done because everything is rosey.

Edited July 13, 2010 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

Current WHU and England player in gay shocker

that's not it at all. If it was I could have simply linked to one of thousands of bits and pieces out there on the net referencing that.

As i've said, it's not something you'd know from gossip, it's something you could only know thru knowing the player or his properly close friends.

I've never claimed to know everything about any subject. I do believe I know a little about football, on the basis that I've been attending football matches regularly for well over 20 years. I do also believe I have a better understanding of the game than you on the basis that you haven't.

You "real fans". It's surprising you're not recruited to be mangers.

Very definitely I've never PM'd you to state what amounts to, 'I know something you don't know'...very clever . You even admitted as much when you said "...I couldn't resist the teasing post..."

Was it just that? Nope, nothing like it. It was trying to find out if word of what was happening was going around at that time.

You didn't state anything about two of the three paragraphs in my previous post. So, I'll do likewise and ignore yours .

I did, I just didn't quote them. You have an opinion based on nothing of substance and only speculation, wow, I'm impressed.

I'm impressed so much, that I can do it to. But only the "real fans" baseless opinions can ever count or be accurate, eh?

Edited July 13, 2010 by eFestivals

[TheGayTent]

that's not it at all. As i've said, it's not something you'd know from gossip, it's something you could only know thru knowing the player or his properly close friends.

[Wooderson]

Rumours all over the Italian media this morning that a deal is in place with Utd for 35 million Euro and that Fergie asked Macheda to call Balotelli (theyre good mates).

Notice Fergie said he had not bid for Sneijder or Ozil. He didnt mention Ballotelli. However the Italian media also say Balotellis agent is meeting with Fergie today, even though Fergies on a plane to the States at the moment.

[eFestivals]

"Real fans" ? That's a very interesting choice of words you have used...

Interesting? Or as ridiculous as you and every other self-proclaimed "real fan" make it?

What are you wittering on about? My opinion, which is just that, is based on watching JC play that position, live, over 70 times. Sucessfully. Without his actions leading to goals being ruled out for offside. Get it?

Wow, I don't know how I'm going to live after today, all these opinions you're giving that are beyond question.

My opinion, which is just that, is based on watching JC play in various positions many more times than just 70. With his actions leading to goals being ruled out for offside. Get it?

I don't think you do. I don't think you realise that others can have differing opinions that have no less a sound basis than your own.

Again, interesting choice of words...

You really don't realise just how far your head is up your arse do you?

[The Nal]

So youre saying that Fergie is a cheat - getting his squad players to tap up their mates. And yet you give Reina grief?

Edited July 13, 2010 by The Nal

[Wooderson]

So on a day where they were there to celebrate the national teams achievements and were all wearing the national teams shirts, they just happened to have a Barca shirt to hand when Cesc came to the front of the stage? Sorry mate, but there's been far too much stuff said by all the Barca players to the press for it to be anything other than planned. For the last 3 months now every Barca player has gone on about how "Fabregas belongs at Barca" or "he's got Barca DNA", the worst offender being Xavi. It's obvious that they've been told by the club to do it, I just think it's an appauling way to go about signing a player. STill nowt will be done about it so who cares I suppose?