Football 2010-2011

[The Nal]

so what you're saying is that the 'great' players who say what you like are always right and the 'great' players who say what you don't like are always wrong.

Which rather proves the point I had when I first commented on this.

Edited May 19, 2011 by The Nal

[TheGayTent]

Not sure about the argument about Scholes' passing going to shit.

Can argue other areas of his game have dropped, but ignoring the Blackburn game (as United passed it between themselves without a challenge for the last 10 minutes), Scholes has a average 90% pass completion rate for his 5 prem games previous (Fulham h, Liverpool a, Chelsea a, Wigan a, Man City h). Completed 284 passes from 316 attempted.

[eFestivals]

Not sure about the argument about Scholes' passing going to shit.

Can argue other areas of his game have dropped, but ignoring the Blackburn game (as United passed it between themselves without a challenge for the last 10 minutes), Scholes has a average 90% pass completion rate for his 5 prem games previous (Fulham h, Liverpool a, Chelsea a, Wigan a, Man City h). Completed 284 passes from 316 attempted.

If it's not gone to shit then I can only conclude that it's always been shit and I've never noticed.

Or are you confusing what was clearly a shot on goal I saw from him in the last few weeks (I forget which game) which turned out to be a peach of a pass to Nani or someone on the wing as really a pass?

[ralph250]

I can pass a ball over 5 yards pretty accurately. I reckon maybe even 9 times out of 10...

Stats like that tell us sweet FA.

[pink_triangle]

All Im saying is that its a widely held opinion. And its also my opinion.

I cant think of an English midfielder thats been better, in club football.

Genuinely looking for other suggestions though...... anyone?

[the_hedge]

Paul Scholes has been the best English Midfielder since the ineception of the Premier League and this is coming from a Liverpool fan. Those who doubt his talent are either ignorant or do not watch a lot of football.

I would agree that Platt was more affective on the International front.

[eFestivals]

All Im saying is that its a widely held opinion.

yet it's only that opinion dependent on who is asking those players, how the question is asked, and which side of bed they've got out of that day. And those players have a proven (not!) accuracy rate, with their comments about who will win the world cup or the like.

And if such players got things so right they'd prove to be great managers. So I wonder why they're not?

On a similar basis, about 10 year ago Fergie spunked £2M on a couple of 14 year olds. The question needs to be asked: where are they now?

(the answer is outside of Pro football).

Such opinions count for shit most of the time.

It clearly hasn't. As your post proves. He can still spray a pass 40 yards cross field better than anyone.

the last "40 yard pass" I saw Scholes make ended up at (I( think) Nani's or Valencia's feet on the wing and looked like a peach of a pass with a half-glance.

What it was really was the most atrocious shot on goal that you'll ever see, of that there's absolutely no doubt.

[eFestivals]

Paul Scholes has been the best English Midfielder since the ineception of the Premier League and this is coming from a Liverpool fan. Those who doubt his talent are either ignorant or do not watch a lot of football.

If you (and others) care to notice, I've not said he isn't.

What I have said is that the basis that Nal is using to justify his opinion is worthless.

[TheGayTent]

Yeah, cos Scholes never likes to pass more than 5 yards...

check out the guardian chalkboards if you so wish.

http://www.guardian....lkboards/create

[ralph250]

Ralph it was posted with my tongue at least half planted in my cheek, and for the record Scholes has been a superb player (although f**king dirty ).

I posted more due to my dislike of many statistics. They rarely mean much on their own.

[ralph250]

And TGT, do you not think Hughton's in with a chance then? ex-player, born locally, got Newcastle up first time of asking...

[TheGayTent]

True, but I posted them just to help back up the argument as opposed to "Scholes passing is shit", "oh no it isn't", "oh yes it is" etc etc.

Agree in general they don't mean much on their own, but I think we're all pretty aware of Scholes' game and passing range that it didn't really need much more than saying a 90% pass completion rate disproves (imo) that it's "gone to shit".

And as you love stats so much ; interestingly Scholes was only sent off once in his first 10 years.

[The Nal]

If you (and others) care to notice, I've not said he isn't.

What I have said is that the basis that Nal is using to justify his opinion is worthless.

[strummer77]

Apparently Hargreaves is going to be offered a pay as you play deal. So the total end of season payout will be zero.

Nah Utd have never really signed marquee players, not in relative terms anyway. Veron/Berbs aside.

[TheGayTent]

And TGT, do you not think Hughton's in with a chance then? ex-player, born locally, got Newcastle up first time of asking...

[The Nal]

RVN, Stam, Rooney, Ferdinand?

What about Carrick, Hargreaves etc. You always spent a fair bit.

[ralph250]

And like I have repeated for at least 20 years, the stats you give do not actually back up your argument. Necessarily.

I had a very similar discussion to this once about Jan Molby. Molby stats were worse than most when it came to pass completion, and my mate at the time (now sadly deceased) stated that it proved he wasn't as good as many believed. All it in fact proved was that he attempted more of those 70 yard diagonals over the top for Rush than the ball winner did.

Does a 65% pass completion rate for passes attempted in excess of 50 yards to a player being marked, make you a worse player/passer of a ball than a 90% pass completion rate for another player for sideways passes attempted less than 20 yards to a player in open space?

Not stating this is the case with Scholes, but you will accept my point?

[eFestivals]

No its not. The basis for my opinion is me! From the 18 years of watching him play every week, and the few times I've seen him in the flesh.

This was my opinion before I even heard of that "quote list" that gets bandied about. But I happen to agree with that.

it's not the "your opinion" part I was taking issue with, just the rest of it.

And you more than adequately proved me right by your non-acceptance of one thing a great player has said (cos it doesn't match your opinion) while listing great players who opinions you share.

Yeah remember it. Rare though in fairness.

Far less rare in more recent seasons.

In fact I'd say I reckon I see at least one very very dreadful pass (which goes something like 90 degrees from where it was intended, like that shot I mentioned) from him each time he takes the field nowadays.

[ralph250]

Yes, I think he stands a chance. However, I believe he is further down the list than the names I have mentioned. It'll only get to Hughton if they cannot agree terms with Curbs/Pearce. Certainly won't surprise me if Curbishley turns them down after speaking to them, due to the way Gold & Sullivan conduct their transfer activity along with Barry Silkman...

[strummer77]

True yeah.

Wouldn't call Carrick and Hargreaves marquee players though. Or RVN really. 19m wasn't big money for a top class striker in those days.

I said "relatively". I meant compared to Real, A.C, Chelski, Citeh.

[The Nal]

In fact I'd say I reckon I see at least one very very dreadful pass (which goes something like 90 degrees from where it was intended, like that shot I mentioned) from him each time he takes the field nowadays.

Edited May 19, 2011 by The Nal

[ralph250]

As for £110m in the bank... you may but it'll be borrowed.

[ralph250]

I try not to think of Carrick as that expensive!

[strummer77]

£113m is in the bank per the 3rd quarter results posted around a week ago, and club generated. Doesn't negate that there's still c. £478m of bond debt realisable in 2017. Last quarter bought back £5.5m of the bonds, and previous quarter bought back £24m. From this time last year, Gross debt on the bonds has dropped from £520.9m to £477.7m, and cash reserves have risen from 95.9m to 113m.

Next quarter those cash reserves should grow quite a bit aswell. Season ticket renewals will come in, and...

Edited May 19, 2011 by strummer77

[eFestivals]

£113m is in the bank per the 3rd quarter results posted around a week ago, and club generated. Doesn't negate that there's still c. £478m of bond debt realisable in 2017. Last quarter bought back £5.5m of the bonds, and previous quarter bought back £24m. From this time last year, Gross debt on the bonds has dropped from £520.9m to £477.7m, and cash reserves have risen from 95.9m to 113m.

Next quarter those cash reserves should grow quite a bit aswell. Season ticket renewals will come in, and...

What you've missed from all of that is the loans they've taken on the quiet to pay off some of the known debts.

Unless you're going to tell me that there's no subterfuge behind the Glazers moving their company registration to Delaware?