Football 2010-2011

[pink_triangle]

The way the media overhype some of these transfer targets amuses me. Today I have heard that Phil Jones is an established premiership star and Ashley Young is a proven international player.

[The Nal]

The way the media overhype some of these transfer targets amuses me. Today I have heard that Phil Jones is an established premiership star and Ashley Young is a proven international player.

[Wooderson]

Agree. As soon as "English" and "Transfer" appear in the same article people go mental.

See Liverpool are going to have issues getting rid of Aquilani. Juve dont want him. Not at that price anyway. Not surprised. One of the most bizarre transfers of recent years.

[The Nal]

*cough*

Edited June 9, 2011 by The Nal

[Wooderson]

Oh no doubt, Dodgy.As.Hell, but the Bebstonian didnt cost 20 million. And people werent saying hes the Italian Zidane, best midfielder in Italy etc!

Bizarro stuff from Rafa. Kenny isn't doing much better in the transfer market by the way. And Woy got abuse for his transfer dealings!?

Kenny sold Torres, bought a 17 game wonder with an average scoring record and a Sunlun player who weighs in with a handful of good games a season. But Woy is the devil, Kenny is God.

Downing next apparently to "put the ball on Big Andys head....all were missing really" is what Ive been reading from Liverpool fans. If the game was so simple we'd all be managers/millionaires.

P.S. Bebe looks cool there, best thing hes done.

[pink_triangle]

Your trolling has reached new lows here dude. I won't respond to the majority of it but - are you seriously attempting to compare the signing of Bebe to Aquilani?

[ampersand]

only Tom Daley* could suit Utd better.

(* he's that kid that wins diving medals, in case it's passed you by).

[Wooderson]

In terms of ability theres no doubt that aquilani is a far better player than bebe. In terms of transfers thought aquilani looks like he will be the worst as neither have really contributed anything but aquilani has cost far more in transfer fee and wages to make no impact. Bebe was bought as a bit of gamble that hasnt paid off, aquilani was bought to be one of the main players.

[pink_triangle]

Was Bebe not €9,000,000? A "bit of a gamble"? F*ck off!

Edited June 10, 2011 by pink_triangle

[The Nal]

Was Bebe not €9,000,000? A "bit of a gamble"? F*ck off!

[eFestivals]

Its an expensive gamble no doubt but it was clearly a punt as there was no real track record to judge him on. In the grand scale of things 9million is a drop in the ocean to man utd. Its still half the money liverpool paid for aquilani and I imagie his wages are less than half. So with both transfers being flop the aquilani flop will financially cost liverpool more and has also had a far greater impact on the team as aquilani was clearly bought in to be a main first team player where as bebe was bought in to be a squad player. If Man utd hadnt bought bebe they probably wouldnt have spent the money, so in terms of squad strenght it makes little difference. Where as liverpool would clearly have bought a big player if they didnt buy aquilani who could have made a great impact.

surely whether Aquilani costs Liverpool more than Bebe costs Utd comes down largely to what resale value each player achieves?

While Juve don't want Aquilani there's rumours of other 'big' Italian teams being interested at a fairly decent price, while Bebe probably has a value of almost nothing - so Bebe could turn out to cause the greater loss.

As for each's skills on the pitch, I've not seen Bebe enough to comment on him, but Aquilani definitely showed touches while at Liverpool of why Rafa spunked all that money on him - and had he been able to be consistent with that good side he looked every bit a £20M player. The problem was that he wasn't consistent, but I wonder if Rafa had destroyed his confidence?

Has he showed anything better while back in Italy? I've no idea, but I certainly wouldn't be hugely surprised if he has.

[strummer77]

Has he showed anything better while back in Italy? I've no idea, but I certainly wouldn't be hugely surprised if he has.

[Wooderson]

surely whether Aquilani costs Liverpool more than Bebe costs Utd comes down largely to what resale value each player achieves?

While Juve don't want Aquilani there's rumours of other 'big' Italian teams being interested at a fairly decent price, while Bebe probably has a value of almost nothing - so Bebe could turn out to cause the greater loss.

As for each's skills on the pitch, I've not seen Bebe enough to comment on him, but Aquilani definitely showed touches while at Liverpool of why Rafa spunked all that money on him - and had he been able to be consistent with that good side he looked every bit a £20M player. The problem was that he wasn't consistent, but I wonder if Rafa had destroyed his confidence?

Has he showed anything better while back in Italy? I've no idea, but I certainly wouldn't be hugely surprised if he has.

[The Nal]

Has he showed anything better while back in Italy?

[strummer77]

Bizarro stuff from Rafa. Kenny isn't doing much better in the transfer market by the way. And Woy got abuse for his transfer dealings!?

Kenny sold Torres, bought a 17 game wonder with an average scoring record and a Sunlun player who weighs in with a handful of good games a season. But Woy is the devil, Kenny is God.

Downing next apparently to "put the ball on Big Andys head....all were missing really" is what Ive been reading from Liverpool fans. If the game was so simple we'd all be managers/millionaires.

[Wooderson]

Probably trolling but...

Roy bought Meireles (yeah done well) to replace Aquilani (who may have equally done as well).

Roy bought Joe Cole for Benayoun- who is better than Cole.

Roy bought Poulsen who is the worst DM in the league.

Roy bought f**king Konchesky in for our promising international fullback Insua.

Roy bought Brad Jones for a few million despite the fact he isn't very good.

Not saying any of Comolli's transfers will pay off, but at least they have a chance. The only one that worked for Roy was Meireles, who had apparently been a Benitez target anyway.

Roy was shit. Mega shit. Anyone who thinks he was decent knows so little about football it's scary.

[strummer77]

Ive seen him play a good few times this season, hes not great, but either are Juve. They finished 7th, behind Udinese, Napoli and Lazio.

I dont think it was unfortunate. He was hyped beyond belief after a handful of decent performances, scoring a goal in the Rome derby will do that to a player and this was a time when Roma were pretty good too so he was playing in a good side, but Roma had to go out and buy Pizarro as cover because he was injured so much.

[eFestivals]

Probably trolling but...

Roy bought Meireles (yeah done well) to replace Aquilani (who may have equally done as well).

Roy bought Joe Cole for Benayoun- who is better than Cole.

Roy bought Poulsen who is the worst DM in the league.

Roy bought f**king Konchesky in for our promising international fullback Insua.

Roy bought Brad Jones for a few million despite the fact he isn't very good.

Not saying any of Comolli's transfers will pay off, but at least they have a chance. The only one that worked for Roy was Meireles, who had apparently been a Benitez target anyway.

Roy was shit. Mega shit. Anyone who thinks he was decent knows so little about football it's scary.

while I'm not arguing that Konchesky turned out to be a bad buy, I don't think it was a bad buy at the time. He'd just had a very decent season for Fulham, where he looked to be getting back to the sort of form that had won him a place in the England squad a few years before. I think he was someone who turned out to be a bad buy (which happens with all managers at times) rather than a bad buy at the time of purchase.

As for Insua ... he was dreadful.

Cole was another one that you can't much blame Woy for - he should have been a good free signing, but turned out to be crap. Personally I think he's lost it completely as a footballer (for whatever reasons - ego perhaps), but there were plenty of clubs and managers and fans who would have been very happy to have signed him at the time.

As for the new buys, youth is clearly what Liverpool are wanting, which comes to explain the huge money paid for Carroll. While that might turn out to be huge mistake in on-the-pitch terms cos he won't be the player they hope he'll be, there aren't many options with young strikers who have actually proven themselves in the Prem, and while Carroll's Prem experience is limited it's more than any other player I can think of (bar Sturridge, who was rumoured to be part of the Torres deal for a bit, not sure why it didn't happen). Along with there being few other options with young strikers, I think the Carroll buy was as much about saying "we're still here and aiming to come back to the big time" as it was actually getting that particular player.

While that might sound a bit dumb for a club to spunk huge money on a mostly-unproven player as an image thing, I don't think the effect of that should be under-estimated. Would they have landed Henderson without having shown that ambition with Carroll? I'm not so sure they would. So the value of Carroll is about more than simply what he might do on the pitch.

[strummer77]

while I'm not arguing that Konchesky turned out to be a bad buy, I don't think it was a bad buy at the time. He'd just had a very decent season for Fulham, where he looked to be getting back to the sort of form that had won him a place in the England squad a few years before. I think he was someone who turned out to be a bad buy (which happens with all managers at times) rather than a bad buy at the time of purchase.

Edited June 10, 2011 by strummer77

[ralph250]

Bebe: 2 goals in 3 starts ...though iirc one was a mishit or deflected cross.

Feel a bit sorry for him though. A lot of the media got on the back of him before he even played a competitive game and injuries to key members of the squad meant he was exposed before he was ready.

The guy is only 20 years old, had moved to a new country, without speaking the language & hadn't had professional training before this year so was always going to be a long term project. I didn't anticipate him even getting a game for the first team this year, but injuries to Park and Valencia forced it a bit earlier in the season and I think Fergie wanted to see how he reacted. Did ok first couple times but was pretty horrific on his Old Trafford debut (against Wolves iirc).

Seems to be two main theories with him anyways. Firstly that Queiroz/our scout felt he had the raw materials to be worth the punt. Long term project. He is a unit and athletic after all.

The alternative theory is that he was bought as a "sweetener" to gain or retain influence with Jorge Mendes (gestifute) who made 3.6m euros out of the £7m.

Mendes being the agent to Ronaldo, Nani, Anderson, Mourinho, and one of the most influentual in the Iberian area. Also supposedly going to be De Gea's agent and the one who negotiated the deal for De Gea. De Gea switching agents to Mendes end of the month when his contract with his existing agent expires. Doesn't want the existing agent suing for compo, hence the denials that anything has been sorted already. (Think he's Ferdinand's also).

Might just be people looking for a reason for the signing though, given his apparant lack of quality, Fergie not watching him etc. Could easily have just been an innocent misjudgment by the scouting team, and apparant interest (Madrid and Benfica reportedly) accelerating our business as opposed to watching him for a year.

Btw, whilst both perhaps unlikely, not sure can really reflect on the success or otherwise of a signing until they've left either. Aquilani could return and play a key part under Kenny. Similarly not sure we'll sell Bebe yet. Think he's too far behind in any development to really make it but never know. Fergie's said he'll be a forward, and he's clearly not a winger which is where he's played so far. On evidence so far can't aerially cross for shit (rocket, f**king rocket!) but ok drilling it in. Think it's probably the case that has played more street football (foul above head height etc) so never learned the technique.

Took this nicely in the reserves though.

[pink_triangle]

surely whether Aquilani costs Liverpool more than Bebe costs Utd comes down largely to what resale value each player achieves?

While Juve don't want Aquilani there's rumours of other 'big' Italian teams being interested at a fairly decent price, while Bebe probably has a value of almost nothing - so Bebe could turn out to cause the greater loss.

[Wooderson]

Manchester United player will always have a resale value while steve bruce is in a job.

[eFestivals]

Manchester United player will always have a resale value while steve bruce is in a job.

true - he's the new Brian Robson, the latest ex-Utd mug who'll buy any old shite from Utd because they must be good cos they're from Utd.

Having said that - jokingly - it does look like Bruce has a better handle on the actual quality of the players he's after.

[ralph250]

Liverpool and United look to be preparing for a possible Fifa regulation that will be 9 homegrown players in the 18 matchday squad, as opposed to the 8 in 25 man squad at the moment.

At present you could have 17 foreigners for your first XI and 6 of your subs, and then just flesh out the rest of the 25 with youth who aren't ever going to play a game. The new rules if they come in, will mean quality of "homegrown" squad options will be huge considering they'll either be your first team or making up your bench options.

Whilst Young doesn't make the cock twinge like someone like Sanchez might, it makes sense imo considering we've lost Scholes, Neville & look to be selling Gibson, Brown and possibly O'shea. Rio only fit for 50% and Giggs heading towards the end, Owen probably only for a year etc.

After Carrick, Fletcher & Rooney, the rest are pretty much youngsters really; Welbeck, Cleverly, Fabio, Rafael (both whom count), Smalling, Jones assuming he signs etc

Think Young will probably be bought more to suppplement Nani and Valencia as opposed to usurp.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jun/10/phil-jones-fifa-rules-price

(if passes EU law I guess)

[pink_triangle]

Liverpool and United look to be preparing for a possible Fifa regulation that will be 9 homegrown players in the 18 matchday squad, as opposed to the 8 in 25 man squad at the moment.