scottish fitba'

[Kowalski]

yeah but will you be driven away? you're hardly going to stop supporting aberdeen because of this. and i'm not going to stop supporting livingston.

it's not the ideal solution though, of course.

[ampersand]

I was a season ticket holder for 10 years but gave it up in the summer as I could see where things were going under McGhee.

If they do what they acknowledge is the least acceptable idea for the fans, they'll drive more fans away and clubs will lose money anyway.

[Paul ™]

i dunno like, if you love football and support your club, you should follow whatever.

[rexclark]

I believe the SPL have asked representatives from SPL clubs supporters trust to come in and discuss the league reconstruction (two guys from Accies are going tomorrow). What's the point of this if they're just going to ignore what they say anyway? It's a f**king joke but should we expect anything else?

Edited January 4, 2011 by rexclark

[Snufflebutt]

If folk are so desperate to play new teams, why don't they get managers to ensure they get relegated? If fans want to see their team play Cowdenbeath so much, then thats the way to go - its one way to make sure you dont play the Old Firm 8 times a season..... Of course, fans dont want this. They want to see their team do well against whoever they play - and thats why the spl chairmen have chosen the 10 team option despite the fans surveys, because they know that, when it comes to the crunch the fans will still go.

[Snufflebutt]

I believe the SPL have asked representatives from SPL clubs supporters trust to come in and discuss the league reconstruction (two guys from Accies are going tomorrow). What's the point of this if they're just going to ignore what they say anyway? It's a f**king joke but should we expect anything else?

[Kowalski]

Dundee United chief blows apart SPL attempt to claim consensus for 10-team league

Published Date: 05 January 2011

By Stephen Halliday

HOURS after the Scottish Premier League hierarchy claimed that Scottish football has taken a significant stride towards returning to a 10-team top flight yesterday, it emerged last night that up to four clubs could still vote against the proposal.

SPL chairman Ralph Topping and chief executive Neil Doncaster emerged from a three-hour meeting of clubs at Hampden yesterday morning to express their optimism that proposals for a new two-tier SPL with 10 teams in each division will be approved by the necessary majority of 11-1 when the clubs reconvene to vote on them on 17 January.

But Dundee United chairman Stephen Thompson, who did not attend the meeting, later announced his firm intention to vote against the plan and stated his belief that he will not be alone in his opposition. It is understood Kilmarnock and Inverness are also against the proposal in its current form, and Hearts have yet to be convinced that it merits their support.

"We will certainly be voting against it if is the same proposal as before and I'd imagine we won't be the only ones," said Thompson. "I wasn't at the meeting so it is difficult to gauge the mood and how argumentative it was. But the bottom line for me is that I don't think a ten-team league is good for Scottish football."

Another club official said: "It's a million miles away from being a done deal. There are people sleepwalking into this."

According to Topping and Doncaster, any move to increase the size of the top flight has been ruled out, as have alternative suggestions, put forward by Thompson, which would have involved play-offs at the top of the table to decide the outcome of the championship. If the ten-team league is rejected later this month, the only alternative on the table is the status quo - which looked like a realistic scenario last night.

The '10-10' proposals, which also include an earlier start to the season and the re-instatement of a winter break, were compiled by an SPL strategy group comprised of Topping, Doncaster and representatives from Rangers, Celtic, Hibs, Aberdeen, Motherwell and St Mirren.

There was initial resentment and objections from the six clubs who were not invited on to the strategy group, which Topping and Doncaster believed had been appeased at a meeting with them on Christmas Eve. Thompson's comments cast fresh uncertainty over the process, however, with considerable differences of opinion clearly still requiring to be addressed before the vote is taken. The SPL hierarchy, however, are more confident than ever that they will get the backing they need.

"There is broad acceptance that the strategy group has done some very good work in putting out a package of proposals," said Topping. "There was more positivity than negativity around the table today. On 17 January, we will look to get a broad consensus.

We have to bear in mind we need an 11-1 vote. But there is a Plan A at the moment and no Plan B.

"Plan A is the proposals put forward by the strategy group and those will be the recommendations we will put on the table. That's a 10-team league with a winter break, earlier start to the season and with promotion/relegation play-offs.

"As things stand, that would involve the teams finishing eighth and ninth in the SPL going into the play-offs. The strategy group will have another meeting on that before 17 January and there may be some modifications.

"There was rational discussion today about play-offs at the top of the table but it didn't come to anything. It is a non-starter.

"In terms of the 10-10 reconstruction, there are a lot of positives in that direction. From an economic point of view, moving to 16 or 18 teams just does not work."

Topping defended the decision to initially omit Hearts, Kilmarnock, Dundee United, St Johnstone, Inverness Caledonian Thistle and Hamilton from the strategy group process.

"We have been working on this for eight months," he added. "It is normal in any business to set up a sub-committee for this kind of project. The Dickensian way would have been for all 12 clubs to keep meeting constantly on it. If you were to get 12 relatives around the table to decide where you are going on holiday, it would be bloody hard."

Topping also rejected claims the SPL are ignoring the views of supporters following a weekend survery which suggested almost 90 per cent of Scottish football fans were opposed to a 10-team league.

"We've had discussions with fan groups and we will talk to them more," said Topping. "We will explain our views and the rationale behind the proposals. Once we talk to them, we're finding a greater appreciation of what we are saying about the economic side for each club. We would never wish to ride over the feelings of supporters."

Chief executive Doncaster insisted that the economic case for increasing the size of the top division is simply unsustainable.

"Let's look at a 16-team league as an example," said Doncaster. "We'd go from 38 games to 30 games. Just think of the cost of losing four home games for each club.

"It then means cutting the cake into 16 slices rather than ten slices, so clearly each club is going to get less money. It would mean just one home game against Celtic and Rangers. It would have a massively detrimental effect on the money each club earns.

"The idea of a 16 or 18 team league is superficially attractive. It sounds nice, but the reality is that the finances of clubs would be decimated. From a television point of view, it halves the number of big games we would have to sell."

Doncaster denied, however, that the proposed changes are simply designed to protect the interests of the leading clubs. "This is about looking at all of the clubs in Scotland," he countered.

"At the moment, so much of the money goes to the top 12 while the other 30 have nothing.

"We've had a situation where clubs relegated from the SPL are facing financial oblivion.

"This proposal is about protecting those clubs and ensuring money is spread around. The landing has to be much softer when you drop out of the top division. That's why it was so encouraging that we had a broad consensus today that there is a real need for change."

If the proposals are approved at the 17 January meeting, talks would then begin with the Scottish Football League to integrate eight of their clubs into the new set-up.

It would be scheduled to begin at the start of the 2012-13 season.

David Longmuir, the chief executive of the SFL, gave a cautious welcome to the prospect last night.

"I'll wait and see what the SPL have got to say to me," said Longmuir.

"But I think consensus is always a good thing in football. It's possibly something we need to build on to take the game forward. Provided it is right for the game and none of our clubs are worse off as a result, then there is a mood for change among the SFL members."

Longmuir insisted he has no fears about the future of the SFL.

"I don't worry about it, no," he replied.

"I'm comfortable with the SFL at the moment.

"We've got 84 games to re-arrange and a Dundee appeal coming up in the next couple of weeks, so they are the key issues for me at the moment.

"But I'm happy to find progress is being made within the SPL if it's for the good of the game."

[fraser_k]

I gave up my season ticket at ibrox two seasons ago, I couldn't justify the money for the standard of football I was getting. I now either go to the local junior team or go to the pub and watch every home game on Arab tv and I dont even do that too often now. I still reckon the only way Scottish football would improve is if the old firm left to go to England and the rest were left with a more competitive league, alright a lot of money would be lost but its not as if.teams like motherwell are rolling in it.

[ampersand]

I gave up my season ticket at ibrox two seasons ago, I couldn't justify the money for the standard of football I was getting. I now either go to the local junior team or go to the pub and watch every home game on Arab tv and I dont even do that too often now. I still reckon the only way Scottish football would improve is if the old firm left to go to England and the rest were left with a more competitive league, alright a lot of money would be lost but its not as if.teams like motherwell are rolling in it.

[fraser_k]

yeah that's a decent point. we're skint but i'm happy enough with the product i'm getting at the price. it's certainly more value for money than you get for most spl games not involving celtic/rangers.

[ampersand]

The things that currently annoying my brother is the Scottish cup game on Monday night is extra on top of your season ticket (£20 I believe) even when its on BBC1. I know its due to both teams splitting the revenue but would it not make practical sense to allow season ticket holders in and charge £10 for all the other seats? Maybe I'm thinking too progressively for the SFA? I can see it being a sparse attendance...

[fraser_k]

I reckon if you split all takings made within the ground including the people that pay to get in then it will probably come to around the same as will at Monday. I can understand the smaller teams wanting an old firm windfall but as both teams have to agree on prices the smaller teams are insisting upon it being full price and getting half empty stadiums that are effectively worse for the game all round.

[ampersand]

I reckon if you split all takings made within the ground including the people that pay to get in then it will probably come to around the same as will at Monday. I can understand the smaller teams wanting an old firm windfall but as both teams have to agree on prices the smaller teams are insisting upon it being full price and getting half empty stadiums that are effectively worse for the game all round.

[fraser_k]

We have Kilmarnock and they don't even attend games at Rugby Park nevermind travel to Glasgow when the games on the telly.

The Celtic game is on Sky Sports on Sunday I think, be a pretty easy game for them..

[ampersand]

We have Kilmarnock and they don't even attend games at Rugby Park nevermind travel to Glasgow when the games on the telly.

The Celtic game is on Sky Sports on Sunday I think, be a pretty easy game for them..

[fraser_k]

It must be berwick if there showing it on tv, I think sky has a game on earlier aswell.

[OneLittleFish]

Looks like we're losing Riordan to Wigan and Liam Millar to Hearts. Getting Leigh Griffiths from Dundee for £100k plus Colin Nish (thank f**k he's going) according to murmurs heading around.

Getting fairly fed up with all our best players being sold.

[ampersand]

Getting Leigh Griffiths from Dundee for £100k

[Paul ™]

It is the Dundee v Motherwell game on before the Berwick Rangers v Celtic game that is on Sky on Sunday

Though I reckon I will watch the Man Utd v Liverpool game on ITV

Edited January 5, 2011 by Paul ™

[minute5072]

It is the Dundee v Motherwell game on before the Berwick Rangers v Celtic game that is on Sky on Sunday

Though I reckon I will watch the Man Utd v Liverpool game on ITV

[ampersand]

man utd in the cup or league?

you heathens choosing england over scotland!

[ampersand]

the mighty huns (light) couldn't defeat us!

[Paul ™]

man utd in the cup or league?

you heathens choosing england over scotland!

[rexclark]

Accies have flogged Jim Goodwin to St Mirren, if we don't make some signings quick then we're officially f**ked.

Celtic and Rangers up next after the cup weekend.

[Kowalski]

Accies have flogged Jim Goodwin to St Mirren, if we don't make some signings quick then we're officially f**ked.