Graduate Tax

[llcoolphil]

Given that primary and secondary education are administered locally, remind me again why you voted Tory at the local elections this year.

[dakyras]

If someone wants to do film studies or football management, then it should be a diploma. A degree should be the pinnacle of undergraduate academic study.

Have you ever done a degree ?? It is a five day a week commitment...

I think the first year was my most intense... In every day and studying / working on assignments the rest of the time. The next year the amount of lecture time went down but the amount of time spent studying and working on assignments went up. The final year I had only a small amount of lectures but I spent a silly amount of time working on my final report etc...

The rest of my "spare" time was spent working to fund being there and yes, having the odd beer when time would allow... God forbid...

I think the suggestion to make degrees only two years is an awful one. Cut the amount of shit degrees and stop less able students from going. Make the degrees mean something.

Edited July 17, 2010 by dakyras

[oafc0000]

Incidentally - which performance indicators would you like me to look at to see how well the schools in your authority are doing? Ive looked at Ofsted reports and exam results (neither of which I personally consider adequate measures) and they are distinctly average.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

You think the tuition fee covers the tuition of a student ? It doesn't...

[oafc0000]

I would beg to differ given the contact time with an academic in many universities. £3,500 a year for many courses seems a little steep, especially when many masters courses can be delivered at less than £4k for the whole thing (and they provide most of the course materials). Also the OU can deliver a good quality degree at around £3k for the whole thing (just had a job interview with them so did a lot of research)

I am starting another BSc in september and I had a chat about prior learning etc. I have been told that I will only have 10 hours of contact time a week in my first year anyway, and I know that I will not be using many of the departments facilities as most of my research can be done at home by accessing on line resources and journals.

I know that many Universities charge different rates for their varying courses for foreign students, with science at the higher end of the scale.

[llcoolphil]

Its saturday and your looking at oftstead reports ? Get a life man

[llcoolphil]

I am sure some courses are cheaper than others but mainly top fees are exactly that...

[oafc0000]

Have a nice day Phil xx

[Rufus Gwertigan]

I even wrote ofsted for you to copy you illiterate twat. Quick glance just to confirm that you were actually talking shit. And unsuprisingly, it turns out you were. Anyway I drive a van during the week and dont have a PC in it and Im at festivals 3 out the next 4 weekends so wont have chance then either. What with going to watch some mates in a band in a pub in a couple of hours, that's plenty enough of a life for me thank you.

[MrZigster]

I would beg to differ given the contact time with an academic in many universities. £3,500 a year for many courses seems a little steep,

[llcoolphil]

Now I like this, but that still leaves the poor at a disadvantage when it comes to HE doesn't it?.

[Guest musiclove123]

Paying £7000 a year for tuition plus £12,000 for living costs loans? What a joke. Are the government determined to everybody living at uni to be in debt?!

Edited July 18, 2010 by musiclove123

[Guest musiclove123]

i agree that there are far too many uni places

government should cap funded places and all other degrees should be cost price

Edited July 18, 2010 by musiclove123

[llcoolphil]

Paying £7000 a year for tuition plus £12,000 for living costs loans? What a joke. Are the government determined to everybody living at uni to be in debt?!

[MrZigster]

quote name='llcoolphil' date='18 July 2010 - 09:28 PM' timestamp='1279484938' post='3374782']

...only when we prevent the rich buying the best education for their kids will we start to see a proper balancing out.

Edited July 19, 2010 by MrZigster

[loscfestivals]

If you go to University that is a life style choice that you make and you should have to pay for it. 21K over the course of somebodys working life isn't a lot to pay back. That is of course unless they did a degree which actually in reality does very little for their job prospects. It will make people think twice about going to University for the craic or to postpone getting a job for 3 years and that is a good thing.

That comes from somebody who has recently (well 4 years) finished doing a degree at what was supposedly a good Uni. It isn't for me to question what is a serious course or not, but it felt like a lot of the courses were put on to satisfy the demand of people wanting to go to Uni. That is fine, but not when the Gov. is picking up the tab.

The grad market was wayy over crowded before the recession and whilst of course many people to go onto get the grad job they dreamed of, just as many don't end up with any kind of job they wouldn't have had anyway. The one's who did could easily afford to pay back 21k over the course of their life. The country can't afford to subsidise people to study for 3 years and be of no greater output than if they hadn't.

It isn't like they are asking for the 21k up front - it would still be accessible for the people who were confident enough that the degree they were doing was going to pay off. Those who want to go for the oppurtunity of going to uni and who maybe aren't studying the most academic subject will have to make sacrifices later in life to do so, and not just be propped up by the Gov. and those who went into work straight from school.

[lolbeck]

I'll be right pissed off if they hitch tuition fees up to £7000. At £3225 a year, my course doesn't even do anything in the summer term. I literally went back after Easter, had a week off, did two exams and then that was it. That was my summer term. No lectures, no work over the summer, nowt.

So if I'm expected to pay double what I'm paying now, they better make some serious changes.

[pink_triangle]

I think 2 criteria need ot be used when deciding how much a student should contribute for a course.

1. How important it is that there are people in the country with the qualification.

2. What is the probability of a person with that qualifcation getting an appropriate job.

If someone wants to spend 3 years learning about something they find interesting, however will not really benefit the taxpayer. I dont think they can expect someone on minimum wage to subsidise them.

[dakyras]

Paying £7000 a year for tuition plus £12,000 for living costs loans? What a joke. Are the government determined to everybody living at uni to be in debt?!

[oafc0000]

£12,000? My loan was only £4,200.

Edited July 19, 2010 by oafc0000

[Guest musiclove123]

£12,000? My loan was only £4,200.

Edited July 19, 2010 by musiclove123

[feral chile]

If you go to University that is a life style choice that you make and you should have to pay for it. 21K over the course of somebodys working life isn't a lot to pay back. That is of course unless they did a degree which actually in reality does very little for their job prospects. It will make people think twice about going to University for the craic or to postpone getting a job for 3 years and that is a good thing.

That comes from somebody who has recently (well 4 years) finished doing a degree at what was supposedly a good Uni. It isn't for me to question what is a serious course or not, but it felt like a lot of the courses were put on to satisfy the demand of people wanting to go to Uni. That is fine, but not when the Gov. is picking up the tab.

The grad market was wayy over crowded before the recession and whilst of course many people to go onto get the grad job they dreamed of, just as many don't end up with any kind of job they wouldn't have had anyway. The one's who did could easily afford to pay back 21k over the course of their life. The country can't afford to subsidise people to study for 3 years and be of no greater output than if they hadn't.

It isn't like they are asking for the 21k up front - it would still be accessible for the people who were confident enough that the degree they were doing was going to pay off. Those who want to go for the oppurtunity of going to uni and who maybe aren't studying the most academic subject will have to make sacrifices later in life to do so, and not just be propped up by the Gov. and those who went into work straight from school.

[Ed209]

Why should people earning minimum wage subsidise middle class kids at university?

[pink_triangle]

Firstly there's the argument that if everyone is contributing to a free higher education system then they themselves can afford to go to university

But also so that they have Doctors, Dentist, Pharmacists, Teachers, to use. So they have well educated people running their hospitals, police stations, councils, governments etc..

So they have scientists driving on the advancements which make their quality of life and health better.

To think that people on minimum wage, or working class people, or people who will never go to uni take no benefit from the higher education system is silly. They benefit from it, so they should help pay for it ... no?

[Steve P]

How do you assess the advantages of providing a university education? It broadens your mind and opens your eyes in ways you can't imagine before you go. I kind of agree with the principle of free education for all, to whatever level they desire/are capable of attaining, as I feel it would benefit the individual and society as a whole to have the best educated society members possible. Obviously practicalities prevent this economically. But I disagree with selling university as though it's an investment vocationally. It's unrealistic and raises false expectations. And I think it was only ever introduced as an ideal by the government in order to sell student loans to us.