Graduate Tax

[feral chile]

I agree and loved my time at uni. However when you see the way that some courses are run, there has to be something done. I did a mechanical engineering degree and this meant 30-35 of lectures a week plus course work etc. One of my house mates however was doing a humanities degree and for her first 2 years only did 5 hours of lectures a week. It just doesn't make sense for a degree like that to run for that long and for tax payers to help fund it like that. As fantastic as time at university is, courses should the length they actually need to be, not just 3 years for the sake of it.

[Steve P]

Don't forget, lectures are only the contact hours, there's meant to be a hell of a lot of reading time involved as well.

[feral chile]

I realise that. To me though, if tax payers are funding the course through their wages, they have the right to expect the course to require a working weeks worth of hours. My friend got by doing very little work or reading outside of classes. I'm not saying that this is typical of all courses but it certainly is of some. Her degree took 3 years only because all degrees are 3 years long, not because it needed to be to fit all the learning in.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

Apparently, the most able students often over-perform yet under achieve - read too much and get too involved in pursuing tangents and fail to state the obvious. And while the marker might be able to hazard a guess that they know the subject material, they can only mark what's on the paper. They also tend to pick the more difficult essay and exam questions so fail to pick up easy marks.

[feral chile]

They are the bright students with no common sense, and to me learning common sence is a key ideal of going to university. I had complaints made to my head of department by other mature students over the fact I could walk into a laboratory session, spend the day on the experiment having gone for a 2 hour liquid lunch, get my results, grab a text book and hand in a 2000 word Lab report 2 days later and get at least 70%. They would sweat over text books for weeks andnot do so well and tried to claim I was cheating. The head said "maybe you are all not doing it right. Dave does what he is asked on the sheet, reads around a little bit and gets on with it. Is there any need to be spending 30 hours on a piece of work when 6 can suffice?"

Some of the clever people never seem to take on board the idea of how much time should be expected for a module but I based everything around that. Most Uni's expect a 10 credit module to be around 100 hours of study. I would gauge 60 hours of study (lectures and independant) and 40 hours to cover assessment. Then just break my assessments down based around the hours expected. It soon stops you rambling in essays as you become time limited and just get on with the job.

Now to me time management like that have always been the key skills that I felt put graduates in front for some jobs. Having a hard time in exams not with standing I could never understand how apparently bright people were studying all the time and getting the same grades as me. Also they seemed to have endless tutorials on their coursework as they needed guidelines set for them.

*shakes head at stupid bright kids*

[llcoolphil]

Firstly there's the argument that if everyone is contributing to a free higher education system then they themselves can afford to go to university

[llcoolphil]

I kind of agree with the principle of free education for all, to whatever level they desire/are capable of attaining, as I feel it would benefit the individual and society as a whole to have the best educated society members possible.

Edited July 20, 2010 by llcoolphil

[feral chile]

But this is the entire crux of the matter - capable of attaining. If we sent a load of kids from the poorest backgrounds to the best schools (instead of generally educating them in the worst), do you think we might find that some kids are actually capable of attaining a whole lot more than we have expected of them? We have to make the education playing field level and give every child a genuine equality of opportunity before we start thinking about spending the education budget on free Higher Education for those that have already had a great education surely?

[llcoolphil]

I agree with you completely. It's long been known that expectation affects results. How would you decide which ones to send?

[Ed209]

Except being able to afford to go and having the ability to go are not the same thing - and it is very much the latter that prevents those from the poorest backgrounds going to university.

For which the well educated professionals are amply rewarded throughout their careers without having to be subsidised by those on minimum wage

Do you think that if the poorest stopped subsidising Higher Education, we would stop having people who wanted to be scientists? The poorest subsidising the better off has no impact on numbers wanting to be scientists

I didnt say they took no benefit, I said that those that take most benefit should pay for it. Every benefit that someone who hasn't been to university gets from the Higher Education system is the exact same benefit taken by someone who has. Except with a substantially lower pay packet.

How do you address the massive inequalities in standards of compulsory education so that every child starts from a level playing field? Because your approach here is to maintain high quality education in the hands of families who have already benefitted from high quality education and tell those that have had a shit education ' dont worry, you keep paying and I'll take your tooth out when you need it'. Do you not think they might prefer to have the option to take your tooth out?

Edited July 20, 2010 by Ed209

[Rufus Gwertigan]

I realise in practice the whole system is f**ked from the bottom up, and I appreciate most of those points. I'm just an idealist, and in my dreams Higher Education is free for the most able and motivated people, no matter what background, and is paid for by the people. All of who reap the rewards of a well educated population.

Unfortunately social mobility in this country (partly due to the expense of higher education) is royally f**ked, so this ideal can't happen without hurting the very people it should be helping.

EDIT: I should also add that there's one group of people who lose out the most at the moment. And its those who get a degree, and then use their education and experience to help in situations where they are not paid well. There's a huge pressure, due to the debt, on having to make money from your degree, which is wrong. Careers that make valuable contributions to society aren't necessarily well paid jobs.

[llcoolphil]

I'm just an idealist, and in my dreams Higher Education is free for the most able and motivated people

[Ed209]

What do you want, sympathy? Should a degree entitle you to more rewards??

Edited July 21, 2010 by Ed209

[dakyras]

A lot of graduates make no valuable contribution to society (I am an example), and I am certain that plenty of kids in comprenensives would love the chance to piss around for 3 years at the tax payers expense.

[oafc0000]

DEAD

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-10711568

Clegg embarrassed at PMQs and now Cabell left with a face like a slapped arse...

[Rufus Gwertigan]

Chill Rufus.

When I was a student my fees were £3000 a year, my loan was around £4000 a year. Please explain to me how it is possible to live within your means on a net income of £1000 a year.

[markeee]

Rufus, would any of this affect me? I graduated 3 years ago..or can I still cruise along paying my student loan like normal

[Rufus Gwertigan]

Rufus, would any of this affect me? I graduated 3 years ago..or can I still cruise along paying my student loan like normal

[markeee]

Ahh ok, I'll just keep paying slowly feels like ill jnever get it all paid off :|

[Rufus Gwertigan]

Ahh ok, I'll just keep paying slowly feels like ill jnever get it all paid off :|

[markeee]

hey Rufus, do you know anything about replacing the passport/driving license?!

I'm just wonderinf if it's going to cause a problem, 2nd passport in 3 years or so, :|

[Rufus Gwertigan]

hey Rufus, do you know anything about replacing the passport/driving license?!

I'm just wonderinf if it's going to cause a problem, 2nd passport in 3 years or so, :|

[markeee]

haha cheers - I had a photo ID provisional, but lost it - I'm hoping I can just get a duplicate replacement one and don't need to fill all the forms in and get sopmeone to counter sign again etc? that would be a pain!

but I tried to use the online form to get a replacement, and after I put my address in it can't find any record of me, could be because I don't know the number on my provisional..but who does!

Guess I'll be doing that tomorrow

What you doing up so late?!

[Rufus Gwertigan]

haha cheers - I had a photo ID provisional, but lost it - I'm hoping I can just get a duplicate replacement one and don't need to fill all the forms in and get sopmeone to counter sign again etc? that would be a pain!

but I tried to use the online form to get a replacement, and after I put my address in it can't find any record of me, could be because I don't know the number on my provisional..but who does!

Guess I'll be doing that tomorrow

What you doing up so late?!

[markeee]

ahhh I see, hate it when you cant sleep..nightmare :(put 4od on!

You mean if they have checked my ID before due to me previously applying and getting a provisional?

hope it's as easy as that, and hopefully for once in my life I'll have a hassle-free phone call , normally it's either a complete hassle where I get nowhere or I giveup after being in a queue and hearing how 'my custom is important' 1000x