Racist HMRC staff

[strudders]

Don't know what to say or think on this. As has been proved this could be the tip of the iceberg for all we know.

These people are supposed to be working for us when it seems they also have their own sick agenda's. Hows to say there are not others out there unilaterally not paying people based on disability or religion.

Frighting.

Link to the BBC

[oafc0000]

scumbags

[Cardboard Box City]

Don't know what to say or think on this. As has been proved this could be the tip of the iceberg for all we know.

These people are supposed to be working for us when it seems they also have their own sick agenda's. Hows to say there are not others out there unilaterally not paying people based on disability or religion.

Frighting.

Link to the BBC

[Uncle Liam]

Its nine out of how many?

And look where it is? Belfast, hardly a place renowned and racial understanding.

They've been caught, been sacked, end of story.

[jump]

With stories like these I always want to know what level the staff were.

[strudders]

They were found out by an internal investigation and sacked? I dont see the need for hysterics.

[Uncle Liam]

where is the hysterics?

If you think that should be the end of the story then fine stay in your bubble. However this is peoples lives there f**king with.

Why should this be the end of the story? you and I dont know that its not going on anywhere else. It was only and internal investigation because the person not receiving their correct money informed the HMRC that their records had been changed.

This could be the thin end of the wedge or as you say just an isolated incident. The point remains that it would seem HMRC does not audit itself until told to do so...

HMRC has an appalling record on these sort of issues and it is after all our money.

[Cardboard Box City]

where is the hysterics?

[strudders]

So what do you propose then?

[Gre]

I guess the watch word here is check and re check your own tax and benifits... but I am not an accountant and I dont know the system and as such what don't know what to check for....

No win situation.

[strudders]

Well...

[oafc0000]

The allegations of racially-motivated gross misconduct were investigated last January when a complaint was lodged by somebody who said that their records had been changed.

A detailed audit was carried out and the inquiry then widened it to take in another 16 child benefit cases.

[llcoolphil]

Only on Efestivals could this turn into an argument

Going off what the BBC have reported. They made a compliant and it was fully investigated and the people sacked. What more can you ask for.

[oafc0000]

Full independent enquiry... Dear lord.,,

[llcoolphil]

Full independent enquiry... Dear lord.,,

[oafc0000]

Why not?

[llcoolphil]

Cost vs lack of justification...

The HMRC investigation found seven people at fault. What is there to suggestion it goes further or the HMRC aren't capable of investigating when issues are highlighted...

[oafc0000]

The point being that it was only investigated when highlighted by an outside source - the implication being that internal procedures aren't good enough to self monitor

Edited August 18, 2010 by oafc0000

[llcoolphil]

Considering the number of "customers" and employees the HMRC have it would almost impossible to spot the determined fraudster... What is important is you have full auditing to hold people to account. Which clearly they had.

[feral chile]

Given that two people resigned when the investigation was announced and seven were subsequently sacked and several others investigated, do you think this was the work of a determined fraudster or a group of people working together? Or was it nine people all performing the same racist act independently of each other? When the McPherson Inquiry investigated just one murder, it concluded that the Met Police was institutionally racist. Do you think there is a chance that part of the reason these offences weren't picked up internally by HMRC is because this organisation is institutionally racist too? And do you think a government department is going to declare itself institutionally racist or might it need some independent help?

Edited August 18, 2010 by feral chile

[llcoolphil]

It's not institutionally racist. HMRC provide diversity training, and have strong anti discrimination and anti bullying policies. It employs people from all walks of life, and there would be disciplinary charges brought and the incident fully investigated if a complaint was made against any member of staff, whether internal or external. If proven, the staff member concerned would be instantly dismissed for gross misconduct.

[strudders]

It's not institutionally racist. HMRC provide diversity training, and have strong anti discrimination policies.

Do we know the timescale involved? We don't know how long HMRC had to investigate between the tampering and the complaint.

It seems to have been to do with child benefit - do we know what information was tampered with? We don't know if an audit would have been able to pick this up, or indeed if this would have been picked up at a later stage.

[llcoolphil]

You can train and teach as much as you like does not mean people will change their views.

Also on that assessment you would also say that these people have been through that training and its not achieved anything.

The point here is the investigation that led to the dismissal of a number of people and the resignation of others was instigated by the person who was being wronged and not by HMRC.

So my point all along still is that HMRC do not know if there are any other people doing the same thing out there and as such no one can say either way that it is or is not happening.

We put all our faith in a system that is run by people that we expect to be true to their ethics however as has been proved, some are not.

This is a big issue to me personally, peoples lives being messed about with because somebody does not like the ethnic background you come from. They have the ability and the will to make changes to your circumstance un checked and unless your very on the ball will get away with it.

HMRC has to start to address the confidence issues associated with its services as they provide one of the most important jobs in this country.

[feral chile]

Having policies and procedures and a management committed to making sure they are being followed isn't necessarily the same thing. Im not saying they are, Im simply suggesting we consider the possibilty. There is a lot of stuff in The Bible about equality and diversity and the results of sin. Didn't stop a lot of Roman Catholics becoming involved in child abuse, either directly or covering it up.

I agree - lots of questions that we need to know an answer to. Im simply suggesting that this has an organised feel to it and that maybe it could be useful to have an outside eye take a look at what, if anything, went wrong

[feral chile]

It is that confidence thing. Having dealt with them once, I simply felt them incompetent because of a lack of staff and growing backlog of work. With civil service cuts that we've already had and more to come, how do you have confidence in an organisation policing itself when you know it doesn't have the staff to do so?