"we're all in this together"

[eFestivals]

They are talking about a points based system which is kind of an half way house...

oh, so only hitting half of the genuine claimants is OK?

[rabid]

It wasn't an attempt at fooling anyone like Pogo... I just wanted to be Barry the Fish going forward

My first post as "oafc0000" today was down to a cookie issue

Anyway, moving on...

[eFestivals]

I think any system will always have people who get caught up in no mans land, like you said... but in this case we are talking about £25 per week for those who are already the most disadvantaged in society.

corrected for you.

And it's shown you for the c**t you are - you've been banging on about how badly hit those earning £44k+ a year will be via a £1000 a year CB cut, but now you're saying that it's OK for the most disadvantaged in society who are already on just a fraction of that £44k to suffer a cut of £1300 a year.

And very sadly, your moronic take is the over-whelming take in this country, which just gets to show just how f**ked up this country really is. :angry:

[sifi]

How do you reward success ? What would be the point in putting in the extra effort ? Why be a manger and take on the extra stress if it resulted in very little extra pay ?

When you include national insurance for the 40% and 50% bands are more like 60% and 70% bear in mind...

[sifi]

After the UEL, NI ee's is 1%

[eFestivals]

When you include national insurance for the 40% and 50% bands are more like 60% and 70% bear in mind...

what complete and utter bollocks. Slimy Gideon, Dave Moron and cronies would be so very proud of you, putting out bullshit propaganda like this for the country to believe.

1. the average % tax paid by those in the higher tax brackets (earning £44k+ a year) actually pay a lower proportion of their wages in tax than those on the standard tax bracket. Cos there's so many fiddles open to them that aren't open to 'normal' people.

2. the NI rate for higher rate tax payers is just 1% on those higher earnings, compared to the 11% paid on lower rate earnings (with the 11% due to increase from next April).

3. no NI contributions are paid by those over retirement age, irrespective of wealth or income.

So if you add standard tax rate and standard NI you get a tax rate of: 20% + 11% = 31%

So if you add the higher tax rate and higher NI you get a tax rate of: 40% + 1% = 41%

That's of course before factoring the legal tax fiddles open to higher earners, which easily gets to wipe the 10% differencde in those rates.

[eFestivals]

Neil and his quest for the impossible...

Ever thought that when I was 14 if someone came along and said... Your choice, would you like to work at Tesco stacking shelves or study, go to Uni, racked up the debt, worked hard and got a job which regularly sees you working till the early hours... Oh by the way, the pay will be the same Which one do you think I would of gone for

Call me a c**t, but like the rest of the country, I am just trying to get on... and I am happy to pay back money in tax to help the less well off...

What a c**t

The c**t is you.

They wouldn't have said "the pay is the same" tho, would they?

By govt figures, the person who goes to Uni earns on average £2,300 pa more.

And in your particular case, you earn - by your own admission - over 50% more than the median average.

Yeah, so it's all the same.

Is there any lie you won't make to wrongly back up your gross stupidity?

[eFestivals]

You have to ask yourself why someone goes to the trouble to write all this when someone else answered the question in a one line post

Cos while most already have no doubts about it, it's always good to make the rest aware just what a stupid c**t you are, and that there's no lie you won't make to try and make black and white look like grey.

Dave Moron and slimy Gideon would be extremely proud of you.

[eFestivals]

PS: NI contributions used to stop entirely, at a level a few thousand short of the upper tax bracket.

So while there's a huge amount to criticise nu-Labour for, extending NI into all earnings was something they got right - but it's a shame they did it at such a low level of just 1%.

[eFestivals]

If only you ruined (sorry run) the country It would look like the Soviet Union in the 70s no doubt

Perhaps.

But just like in the Soviet Union, the country wouldn't have been bankrupt, the rich wouldn't rob the poor with the govts connivance, and there'd be proportionate and fair wages.

So it's certainly the case that the country would be better off, and we'd have a much more equal society. Which means real fairness, and not the idiot bollocks you think is fair, for the disabled to suffer cuts of £1300 a year while the richest only suffer cuts of £1000 (and it's not even all of the richest who'll be hit with that, only some of them).

[Steve P]

How do you reward success ? What would be the point in putting in the extra effort ? Why be a manger and take on the extra stress if it resulted in very little extra pay ?

[eFestivals]

Just wondering Neil... What are you doing to change the world... Besides moaning about it on here ?

It's more than moaning. It's opening the minds of the open minded to how they're being shafted.

Some - you for instance - are beyond hope.

Ever thought about doing something useful like standing for parliament ?

Yep. And I know I'd be wasting my time, because the majority of the country are mindless morons like you, who want to believe that the rich are hard done by and the poor are all worthless scrounging scum.

So what would be the point? I do enough of the banging my head against a brick wall here to think it's worth doing on a bigger platform.

Things will only change when people want things to change, but that requires people like you to get a brain first.

[eFestivals]

I think you read up about a different Soviet Union than I did...

Like so many things, I've read of the truth while you've chosen to believe the baseless propaganda.

[eFestivals]

Don't blame me for the system I didn't make it...

But you DO perpetuate it.

[eFestivals]

You know what I think... I think you are a lazy c**t... You clearly are an intelligent man, but god f**king forbid you might actually get off your lazy arse and try to implement any change...

any chance will only be successful if 'the people' will support it.

You are the perfect demonstration of why 'the people' will never support any meaningful change. You think the rich are hard done by in losing £1k a year in CB, but that it's fine for the poorest - the disabled - to lose £1300 a year.

No, sit on here, piss and moan and let the world drift on by... You aren't making any impact on the world moaning on here... the majority of people on here agree with you... yet by your own admission, c**ts like me seem to rule the world...

just because c**ts like you rule the world doesn't5 mean that c**ts like you should rule the world. You need to learn to appreciate that difference.

One day the world will wise up to that difference, but it won't be in my lifetime. But ultimately, either Marx is right or humanity will die in a nuclear holocaust.

[jump]

One day the world will wise up to that difference, but it won't be in my lifetime. But ultimately, either Marx is right or humanity will die in a nuclear holocaust.

[eFestivals]

All I REALLY want is a nice house, to support my family and have some reasonable nice things like a holiday, maybe watch some football and bugger off to the GP...

I have done what my "masters" have made me do to get what I want out of this life... I don't think that makes me a c**t, that makes me a normal person

oh, so you think you've been "made" to be a c**t do you?

Smart people think for themselves.

[eFestivals]

I pointed out a couple of things...

How the change was unfair because of the family earning 80k vs the family earning 44k issue...

How universal benefits are not by default a bad thing..

So stop twisting my words...

No twisting here: you also said that some earning £44k "will struggle".

The fact that those earning the median average of £21k have always been struggling passes you by entirely.

Ever thought if a c**t like you mobilised himself and gave c**ts like me a different choice they might actually take it ?

There's already people offering those alternatives, with very few backing their suggestions. Why do you think I'll do any better?

I'm aware enough to know that few want those alternatives prefering instead to laughingly believe that they'll be tomorrow's millionaire. And I'm self aware enough to know that me personally will not alter this proportion, but that others instead of me stand a better chance of doing so.

No, its easier to sit back and piss and moan isn't Neil...

touche!!!

But only one of us is the c**t arguing that a £1000 cut for the rich is a bad thing but a £1300 cut for the most vulnerable in our society is a good thing that should be done.

It takeS a special sort of c**t to do that.

I only choose this path as I want a some simple things in life. And yes I had to do this to get them. In reality we should all have them. Shoe me how we can all have them and I will give you my vote...

"Simple things in life" for the simple minded.

We can't all have them. That's the simple fact.

The likes of you need to take less so that others can have more. Are you still as society-minded when that's pointed out to you? No - you revert to c**t mode, and believe that you have a personal right to those "simple things" without regard to the consequences of your actions.

Just calling people c**ts will get you nowhere because in the end, you are a c**t just like the other 99% of people who have to work to get by...

I don't expect me doing that to get anywhere.

I'm simply calling a digging implement a digging implement. More people should do the same.

Edited October 11, 2010 by eFestivals

[Steve P]

Come back Culty Worm, all is forgiven

[eFestivals]

You say stuff like this ALL the time... and it is why people stop listening to you...

It is a f**king FACT that a single parent family on £44k will struggle in todays world if they have a mortgage and having to put their kids into care while they go out to work. The fact this is true and I mention it does not mean I do not ALSO recognise that a family earning £21k have it even worse.

ohhh, right .... but what about the even worse off disabled, who you think it's right should take a cut of £1300, as you've said explicitly today?

You don't do joined up thinking. You should try it sometime.

As for those on £44+k, so f**king what? "Struggling" which means cutting out a few luxuries that won't actually change the quality of their still-privileged life is not the same "struggling" as someone on £21k or less (50% of the working population!).

Its only you that is ignoring people just because they are further up the earning bracket.

It's not about ignoring, it's about proportional effect; it's about *REAL* fairness and not a version of fairness that is heavily slanted towards to the already-privileged which will in fact increase their privileged position in society and not reduce it.

I never ignored anyone.

except the disabled you mean, who(as you've stated) you think can all afford a £1300 cut, alongside you stating that it's wrong to make those earning over £44k suffer a smaller cut.

My over riding point is we all want the same things but the choices are pretty plane and clear. If you want those certain things then you have to climb the career ladder. That is the only choice on offer.

Only to small minded c**ts who refuse to consider other fairer alternatives.

[eFestivals]

But this is where your intelligence ends clearly... When we discuss things on here we are talking about it from a real world prospective. Not from the Neil, if I ran the world and changed everything over night prospective.

A real world perspective is a perspective that recognises the effects of cuts on the poorest in society, rather than explicitly stating they should happen while cuts for the richest shouldn't - which is EXACTLY what you have done.

And which is EXACTLY at odds with what you believe yourself to have done.

[eFestivals]

So if that is a simple fact then there is no third option.. Its either your c**ty existence of leaning on our tax payments or the alternative of being a another type of c**t and trying to climb the career ladder...

f**king yeah for life...

You love showing just how small-minded you are, don't you?

Your version is based fully within the idea that what you currently get as a wage is what you are worth from your working. Yet prove to me that what you believe is true. You can't - for one reason only. That whole premise is 100% wrong.

Just because something is valued at a particular rate by the self-interested doesn't mean it's what it's worth.

The simple fact is that your privileged position depends on the poorest being kept poor far more than it does on any abilities you might have at anything.

That's your third option, and it's the only option that comes from the true reality and not a self-invention.

[eFestivals]

It is just lie after lie Neil... Twisted word after twisted word...

No, those words of yours are the lie.

You have said that the cut in CB for the richest (£1000pa) is "unfair" that people "will struggle" and that it's "wrong".

You have said that a cut of £25pw for the disabled (£1300pa) can be afforded by them and suggested it should happen.

If you don't like moronic things being thrown back at you, don't be the moron that says them - or even thinks them - in the first place.

Edited October 11, 2010 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

So what is my choice ? What should I do to change the world Neil ?

It starts with your thinking. Perhaps try it some time?

My choices in almost every election has been a choice between:

Labour

Libs

Tory

oh, right - so you say I should stand, but don't apply the same for yourself. Double-standards.

I have always voted Labour believing they are the most "progressive" of the lot.

except when you voted tory of course - which you've admitted to doing.

Should I chosen to keep working in that low paid job at Royal Mail ? Not have gone to Uni and worked my way up the "ladder" ?

As a moron once said "you're either with us or against us". You've chosen your side.

Should I not have saved for my retirement ?

No, you shouldn't have bought into increasing the inequalities via your own choices.

Should I not have bought a family home ?

No, you shouldn't have bought into increasing the inequalities via your own choices.

Where did I go wrong ?

Birth I think.

Edited October 11, 2010 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

You see I never said most of that... You are twisting my words...

I said IF someone can live of JSA then why can't someone else... If you want to make a case for raising JSA then do it...

I have, by increasing your taxes to pay for it.

But that's more "wrong" in your eyes than a £1k cut in CB for the richest, because it'll cost them a damned sight more than a £1000 loss to their income.