"we're all in this together"

[gratedenini]

I watched a local programme the other week (or was it national??).

Anyway.. this f**kin tribe from up here... right bad eggs the family were... terrorised the street they lived in--nickin lead from the roofs (inc their own) ASBOs the lot.

Anyway, as much as they were reported by loads of punters for benefit fraud.. nothing could be found.

So, a huge operation was launched... 24hrs surveilannce,full team of officers trawling through years and years of benefit claims--the lot--eggs beans and chips.

The woman was eventually caught on the grounds of claiming child benefit for her sisters kids.. who lived in South Africa for 12yrs!!!

A total of 93k

She was caught red handed at the Post Office where CCTV had been set up to catch her.

She was jailed --- 2 yrs she got I think.

The but to it is this... it cost £500 000 to catch her.

Now, of course--the principal is wholly correct isn`t it.. but the maths aren`t.

I`m not 100% sure what I feel about it.

When it started and you heard what she`d been doing--- yer blood started to boil... but at the end... I started to wonder if it was worth it.

Did it send a message? Was it a deterrent?

No is my feeling.

The local paper does carry a report of every benefit fraudster who is caught.... but I`m not sure it stops anybody doing it.

den

[markeee]

I watched a local programme the other week (or was it national??).

Anyway.. this f**kin tribe from up here... right bad eggs the family were... terrorised the street they lived in--nickin lead from the roofs (inc their own) ASBOs the lot.

Anyway, as much as they were reported by loads of punters for benefit fraud.. nothing could be found.

So, a huge operation was launched... 24hrs surveilannce,full team of officers trawling through years and years of benefit claims--the lot--eggs beans and chips.

The woman was eventually caught on the grounds of claiming child benefit for her sisters kids.. who lived in South Africa for 12yrs!!!

A total of 93k

She was caught red handed at the Post Office where CCTV had been set up to catch her.

She was jailed --- 2 yrs she got I think.

The but to it is this... it cost £500 000 to catch her.

Now, of course--the principal is wholly correct isn`t it.. but the maths aren`t.

I`m not 100% sure what I feel about it.

When it started and you heard what she`d been doing--- yer blood started to boil... but at the end... I started to wonder if it was worth it.

Did it send a message? Was it a deterrent?

No is my feeling.

The local paper does carry a report of every benefit fraudster who is caught.... but I`m not sure it stops anybody doing it.

den

[feral chile]

To get some perspective:

Uncollected tax estimated at £42bn - £1600 per household

benefit fraud estimated to cost £2bn - £80 per household

Edited October 12, 2010 by feral chile

[markeee]

To get some perspective:

Uncollected tax estimated at £42bn - £1600 per household

benefit fraud estimated to cost £2bn - £80 per household

[feral chile]

but if you do nothing about it, to prevent or deal with benefit fraudsters you're essentially saying it's ok

therefore imo more people are likely to commit benefit fraud

Edited October 12, 2010 by feral chile

[feral chile]

I always wonder how they come up with these numbers...

If they know the f**king numbers surely they know who is taking the piss... So f**king do them!

[lost]

How many people in the 40% tax band file a tax return and pay 40% on the interest on their savings / current account? I've always filed one but from what I gather a lot of people on PAYE don't and its not something which seems to be chased??

[feral chile]

How many people in the 40% tax band file a tax return and pay 40% on the interest on their savings / current account? I've always filed one but from what I gather a lot of people on PAYE don't and its not something which seems to be chased??

Edited October 12, 2010 by feral chile

[lost]

I don't understand what you are getting at ?

[feral chile]

I think there are alot of higher rate tax payers on PAYE that don't realize that they should be paying 40% on their savings and I maybe out of touch here but the IR when I switched from contracting to permie they told me I didn't have to file a return anymore?? as I said its not something I think they chase probably for the same reasons that it would cost more than they'd get back in taxes?? just thinking out load..

[lost]

I don't see how you think PAYE is any different - if they declare it, it gets taxed.

[feral chile]

they don't declare it thats the point i'm making, alot don't know they should and I was told to stop by the IR when I knew I shouldn't

[dakyras]

Probably it costs a lot more money to pay the IR to crack down on tax.

[feral chile]

Probably it costs a lot more money to pay the IR to crack down on tax.

Edited October 12, 2010 by feral chile

[llcoolphil]

Probably it costs a lot more money to pay the IR to crack down on tax.

[gratedenini]

the problem is yes the cost to deal with them costs a lot-but if we just leave it, well more and more would commit benefit fraud..and to a greater levels

but 2 years for 93k is a joke

they wont be forced to pay it back, squandered it all no doubt-and we cant take their house..as when she's out in 2 years the council will simply rehouse her in a new house at our cost?

[feral chile]

I`m not sure how long she should have got tbh. She didnt kill anybody...and people get less for that eh.

They have removed the family from the house...but as you say, they have been rehomed somewhere else.

She does have to pay it back...£5 a week from her benefits she will get on release!!!!

Yes, The Journal is great for stabbins and killins and people with one leg who`ve climbed Killimanjaro and of course Benefit Fraudsters!

Crime... I remember going applin when I was a kid... me heart was pounding as we climbed the fence and into the orchard in JamPot Wood... up the tree and stuffin apples into me jumper. Then I head the dreaded cry... "The blokes comin! Gerrout! The blokes comin!!!"

In the blink of an eye, he was there as i got down from the tree.. and I felt his dogs teeth sink into me leg....

Point is... I didnt think for one second about what i was doing before I climbed the fence... it was only when I got caught that I began to think... Oh shit!

(of course, being the charming lad i was/am...I talked me way out of it by telling hime i was put up to it by the bigger lads...and gave him false names and addresses )

Look...me. I`m on £50 a week... could i be "blamed" if for whatever reason... another £20 started getting paid to me for whatever reason.

Takes a very high-moralled perrson to say "Err excuse me... I know I cant afford more than 2 bars on the fire for 15minutes a day... but you are paying me more money than I think I`m entitled"

I think its quite different if you deliberately go and claim stuff like that woman did.

I think a lot of the "fraud" they talk about is like I`ve mentioned before... people who are pulling the wool re their health..y`know the sort... claiming incapacity benefits and then off golfing and dancing etc etc.

I agree. And y`know why... cos people hate it when they see their neighbours getting away with stuff. Esp if they dont like em.

Where I`m from--- yer dont grass...simple as that. It would have to be something "proper" for me to grass... I would never grass on somebody who i knew who was doing fiddle for instance.

I might be wrong... but thats how i am.

What would you do if you seen somebody swiping from Tescos? Would you grass?

I wouldn`t.

I`ve been in a position (once--a long time ago).. where I went stealing food to feed the family. I dont mind admitting it. Felt i had nowhere else to turn.. so I went into the supermarket and swiped some stuff so we could eat... and I`d do it tommorow if I had to.

I`d excuse anyone theiving so that they could eat.

Swiping and Xbox is a completely different matter though...

den

[feral chile]

I saw a figure either earlier this year or end of last about the value of a tax inspector - they brought in x amount (I think it might have been 4 times) more than the cost of their operation. I'll see if I can find a link, but when making efficiency cuts, it was the kind of maths only a politician could come up with to justify getting rid of them

[markeee]

I`m not sure how long she should have got tbh. She didnt kill anybody...and people get less for that eh.

They have removed the family from the house...but as you say, they have been rehomed somewhere else.

She does have to pay it back...£5 a week from her benefits she will get on release!!!!

Yes, The Journal is great for stabbins and killins and people with one leg who`ve climbed Killimanjaro and of course Benefit Fraudsters!

Crime... I remember going applin when I was a kid... me heart was pounding as we climbed the fence and into the orchard in JamPot Wood... up the tree and stuffin apples into me jumper. Then I head the dreaded cry... "The blokes comin! Gerrout! The blokes comin!!!"

In the blink of an eye, he was there as i got down from the tree.. and I felt his dogs teeth sink into me leg....

Point is... I didnt think for one second about what i was doing before I climbed the fence... it was only when I got caught that I began to think... Oh shit!

(of course, being the charming lad i was/am...I talked me way out of it by telling hime i was put up to it by the bigger lads...and gave him false names and addresses )

Look...me. I`m on £50 a week... could i be "blamed" if for whatever reason... another £20 started getting paid to me for whatever reason.

Takes a very high-moralled perrson to say "Err excuse me... I know I cant afford more than 2 bars on the fire for 15minutes a day... but you are paying me more money than I think I`m entitled"

I think its quite different if you deliberately go and claim stuff like that woman did.

I think a lot of the "fraud" they talk about is like I`ve mentioned before... people who are pulling the wool re their health..y`know the sort... claiming incapacity benefits and then off golfing and dancing etc etc.

I agree. And y`know why... cos people hate it when they see their neighbours getting away with stuff. Esp if they dont like em.

Where I`m from--- yer dont grass...simple as that. It would have to be something "proper" for me to grass... I would never grass on somebody who i knew who was doing fiddle for instance.

I might be wrong... but thats how i am.

What would you do if you seen somebody swiping from Tescos? Would you grass?

I wouldn`t.

I`ve been in a position (once--a long time ago).. where I went stealing food to feed the family. I dont mind admitting it. Felt i had nowhere else to turn.. so I went into the supermarket and swiped some stuff so we could eat... and I`d do it tommorow if I had to.

I`d excuse anyone theiving so that they could eat.

Swiping and Xbox is a completely different matter though...

den

[eFestivals]

but 2 years for 93k is a joke

so what does that fact make our thieving politicians, who didn't even get two minutes?

[eFestivals]

I'm not saying it's OK, whjat I'm saying is that benefit fraudsters are stigmatised in a way that tax evaders are not. And tax evaders cost us a hell of a lot more, yet nobody seems to get anywhere near as riled up about tax fiddlers as they do about dole fiddlers.

Also, the PCS reckon the tax gap is being seriously underestimated, and stands at around £100 billion.

Yet rather than put a bit of effort in to collect that money (it's known that the average cost of getting it is just a sixth of the money it costs to get it!), the govt let Vodaphone off £6Bn in tax the courts had ruled they were legally obliged to pay, and then cuts every service they possibly can.

As I keep saying, the level of cuts we're getting is naff all to do with the deficit, and everything to do with ideology.

The bullshit that the Libs keep spouting to justify their policy u-turns of "the country is bankrupt" is utter bollox. If we cut nothing at all our borrowings would still be more managable over an economic cycle than some other major countries have.

[eFestivals]

I saw a figure either earlier this year or end of last about the value of a tax inspector - they brought in x amount (I think it might have been 4 times) more than the cost of their operation. I'll see if I can find a link, but when making efficiency cuts, it was the kind of maths only a politician could come up with to justify getting rid of them

it's six times, not four.

[eFestivals]

I always wonder how they come up with these numbers...

If they know the f**king numbers surely they know who is taking the piss... So f**king do them!

Vodaphone gets to show that they have no interest in going for legally recognised tax evaders, only an interest in making the deepest cuts possible.

Edited October 13, 2010 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

Probably it costs a lot more money to pay the IR to crack down on tax.

it very definitely doesn't - going after tax evaders brings in 6 times the amount of money than it costs to go after them.

This has been pointed out to Brown for years, after he made drastic cuts to the numbers of inspectors - who has then has spent the following years wondering why tax revenues have fallen off a cliff.

It's f**king insane. I can only conclude that was some sort of deal between Brown and the city, that if he gave them freedom from tax inspections they'd not pull the rug from under nu-Labour.

[rachbon]

but if you do nothing about it, to prevent or deal with benefit fraudsters you're essentially saying it's ok

therefore imo more people are likely to commit benefit fraud