Poppy Fascism?

[TheGayTent]

I did observe the 2 minutes silence, however i was in a Injury Free Environment course, so it was unavoidable really.

[RABun]

Skanska?

[feral chile]

I would have observed the silence, but since I was in work, speaking to a weeping woman who had just received a large bill in her dead husband's name, which she couldn't afford to pay, I didn't deem it appropriate to put her on hold while I observed the 2 minute silence to respect the dead.

[gratedenini]

I would have observed the silence, but since I was in work, speaking to a weeping woman who had just received a large bill in her dead husband's name, which she couldn't afford to pay, I didn't deem it appropriate to put her on hold while I observed the 2 minute silence to respect the dead.

[feral chile]

...but I bet you`d have put her on hold if you took a call saying your cat was out again! (without being chipped )

den

Edited November 15, 2010 by feral chile

[llcoolphil]

But these days I feel more respect for those who have given their lives for their ideals.

[Paul ™]

I nearly did a 'Phil' on Sunday.

Was in Sainsburys buying stuff for breakfast when they announced they would be observing a 2 minute silence shortly. I didn't have my phone on me to find out the exact time it currently was!

I didn't want to hang about incase I had 15 minutes or so to wait for it, so dashed for the tills with what I had in my basket and did the beep beep thing.

Only when I was in the middle of doing that, I half expected them to then announce the silence.. luckily I got away with it and got out to the car to find it was still only 10:50am

[Kowalski]

I nearly did a 'Phil' on Sunday.

Was in Sainsburys buying stuff for breakfast when they announced they would be observing a 2 minute silence shortly. I didn't have my phone on me to find out the exact time it currently was!

I didn't want to hang about incase I had 15 minutes or so to wait for it, so dashed for the tills with what I had in my basket and did the beep beep thing.

Only when I was in the middle of doing that, I half expected them to then announce the silence.. luckily I got away with it and got out to the car to find it was still only 10:50am

[gratedenini]

never mind putting someone on hold, I took a day off to look for the cat. I've taken several days off to take her to the vet's, because I don't trust the old man to tell the vet everything. He's very much an advocate of positive thinking, otherwise known as ignore it and hope it goes away.

I'm getting more conservative as I get older - I would never have bought a red poppy in my younger days, as a pacifist I've bought a white one before.

But these days I feel more respect for those who have given their lives for their ideals.

[feral chile]

Would you count the IRA in that? And how many gave their lives in the first world war for their - rather than someone else's - ideals?

Edited November 15, 2010 by feral chile

[gratedenini]

I nearly did a 'Phil' on Sunday.

Was in Sainsburys buying stuff for breakfast when they announced they would be observing a 2 minute silence shortly. I didn't have my phone on me to find out the exact time it currently was!

[dakyras]

Euphemism?

[amy246]

We tried to do the silence at work, but when you're at a busy children's indoor play and party centre it doesn't always work. The majority did do it, and many parents did get their kids to be quiet during that time, which i respect, however there was one toddler who in the middle of it all shouted "mummy! i need a wee!" at the top of his voice!

[Paul ™]

O LORDY MAMA... I rest my case! Shopping---in Sainsburys!! Eeee lad...how do people do it???

And--yet another sign of the times... whats happened to watches...and immortal words such as "Excuse me, what time is it please?

den

[rabid]

I've been giving some thought to what I think you could call my casual indifference to this. I think the problem is it's too far removed and too big for me to really get my head around and properly relate to.

A war memorial in a small town or village with list of names with the same surname or the mining disaster memorials we see round here with similar lists of names will make me stop and think a moment though.

There's a small town in the Borders that I used to visit quite regularly, like a lot of these places they have their annual tradition where all the men ride out to check the borough boundaries for incursions (there used to be a lot of that sort of thing). Obviously it couldn't continue during the wars since all the men were away fighting - and the horses in WWI - but also after the war because the men that went away didn't come back.

That's the sort of thing that I can relate to and give my 2 minutes silence for.

[TheGayTent]

Yep. Do you work for them too?

[RABun]

No. Thankfully - with their H&S reputation in Europe!

[gratedenini]

I've been giving some thought to what I think you could call my casual indifference to this. I think the problem is it's too far removed and too big for me to really get my head around and properly relate to.

A war memorial in a small town or village with list of names with the same surname or the mining disaster memorials we see round here with similar lists of names will make me stop and think a moment though.

There's a small town in the Borders that I used to visit quite regularly, like a lot of these places they have their annual tradition where all the men ride out to check the borough boundaries for incursions (there used to be a lot of that sort of thing). Obviously it couldn't continue during the wars since all the men were away fighting - and the horses in WWI - but also after the war because the men that went away didn't come back.

That's the sort of thing that I can relate to and give my 2 minutes silence for.

[rabid]

so, yer just doing what yer want then eh?

What about me Dad and Mrs Armstrong next door.... Osel? eh?

Aye, an tha...

den

[TheGayTent]

Ouch!, Agreed our safety record is not acceptable but i wouldnt say its worse than anyone elses.

[RABun]

That's alright then?!

[TheGayTent]

Thats not what i said, i said it is unacceptable, hence the IFE stuff. zero should be the aim, not 3% AIR

[Rufus Gwertigan]

Just thought I would ressurect this, especially after all the over reaction with FIFA.

This is the first year that I have not bought a Poppy, and I have been amazed how many people have fallen out with me over it. In the past I was happy to give to a charity that supported people that had no choice but to fight (conscription, National Service etc. However over the next few years all of these people will dying off, and to be fair what we are going to be left with are people that made a clear choice to make the military a career. I am becoming concerned that joining the military means that you are a better citizen, something along the lines of "Starship Troopers". From my experience it is a rare thing to meet anyone that has joined up serve their Country, yet we told that they are serving for "us".

As dangerous jobs go, being a soldier is never at the top of lists (Google if you wish). I would rather give my money to a cause that either promotes peace or one that supports people that die in dreadful minimum wage jobs, like those miners in Wales.

Now don't get me wrong I am not saying that ex-servicemen don't deserve support if they have sefvice related issues. However I think it should be the Government as an employer that provides these services, and that should be integrated into the present social welfare system. This could be easily affordable if the military was rationalised for the real reason it is there for, defence, and not to continue some vestige of Empire that quite frankly this country needs to get away from.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Rufus Gwertigan

[eFestivals]

A nicely worded and thought-thru post Rufus, especially given your background as ex-military.

I've been disgusted by the pressure that Dave Moron and co have put on FIFA, without any regard for how England's opposition might feel about taking part in a British demonstration of nationalism. Just consider how the England team of 1937(?) that played in Germany and gave a Nazi salute are ridiculed. But of course, us Brits are only ever good.

Football matches are sport for sport's sake, nothing else. I'm similarly disgusted by how recent England matches have become a celebration of 'our boys', with parades of servicemen as a part of the 'spectacle'. It's so like the dictator-led 'banana republics' or the condemnation we used to give the 'the Eastern Bloc' for similar it makes me want to puke.

And then just yesterday, 'Muslims against Crusades' are banned as "terrorists", clearly (given the date of the banning) only because of the fuss their demonstration will cause. We condemn Gaddaffi and al-Assad for not allowing peaceful protests, and yet do exactly the same.

To quote Teresa May yesterday: Most recently, it has been involved in potential stand-offs with the English Defence League and it also demonstrated outside the US Embassy on the 10th anniversary of 9/11. Heinous terrorist acts, I'm sure you'll agree.

I'm tempted to set up a group called "Athieists and Christians against Crusades" and go burn some poppies, because it might surprise Dave Moron and the unthinking morons who back his stance to realise that not every born and bred British citizen believes that it should be a national trait to celebrate govt-approved mass slaughter on a scale not hugely dissimilar to Hitler's, with the 'moral justification' for that slaughter absolutely no different to Hitler's.

Like you Rufus, I have huge sympathy for the conscripts forced to fight in those wars, while also believing that (say) any nurse "serves the nation" far more than soldier-by-choice.

I'm not anti-all-wars. I am anti the celebration of war with a one-sided view. The death of a German or Iraqi or Afghani as the result of war is no less sad than the death of a Brit.

[eFestivals]

Any suggestion of burning a poppy turns my stomach...

People can protest anything they want in my eyes. But is burning poppies and purposely not allowing others to have two minute silence a real protest or is just incitement / being a bit of a c**t.

Its about having just a tiny little bit of respect for your fellow man in my eyes.

Having respect for what those soldiers fought for would include the freedom to protest, no matter how much you might disagree with what the protest is over or how they might (peacefully, don't forget!) carry it out.

Banning such a protest is essentially saying to those old soldiers "we told you that you were fighting for freedom, but we lied. Your death was pointless, because the country you fought for has taken away the freedom you fought for".

Try putting down your jingoism and start joining up the dots instead!!

Edited November 11, 2011 by eFestivals