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Police above the Law


Guest The_Amazing_Oblong

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Sgt Mark Andrews is cleared of assault despite it being on cctv - BBC Story

This in conjunction with the Ian Tomlinson decision not to even charge Simon Harwood who murdered him, despite it being filmed and Delroy Smellie getting away scott free after assaulting a protester at G20, on film, shows in no uncertain terms that the police are now fully above the law.

That would be 3 officers (w*nker scum would be better description) committing 2 assaults and a murder on film clearly being shown to commit those acts yet getting away scott free.

I'm not afraid of terrorists, they don't impinge on my day to day existance. I am much more afraid of getting on the wrong side of some rogue police officer scumbag.

Furthermore I believe the reason that officers are prepared to assault and kill people when they feel like it is they know they are above the law.

Opinions ?

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I am much more afraid of getting on the wrong side of some rogue police officer scumbag.

If you are really thinking that copper is a "rogue police officer" I can only guess that you've never been arrested.

What that CCTV displayed is the norm, not the exception.

What might be exceptional about it is for a woman to be treated that way - the old bill and the justice system overall are the most sexist organisations going. A woman is either regarded as being unable to be evil at all and so treated with kid gloves and in the most lenient manner as tho it's been some mistake that's seen her arrested, or evil beyond belief, Myra Hindley mk II. There is no middle ground.

But any bloke who was vaguely uncooperative with the old bill after being arrested (which the innocent are quite likely to be, something that never seems to have occurred to the thick twats) stands a high chance of being treated as she's seen being treated in that video, or worse (tho they're generally more careful to avoid marking their victims).

Furthermore I believe the reason that officers are prepared to assault and kill people when they feel like it is they know they are above the law.

it's beyond dispute.

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i'd like to think that the vast majority of polic officers are good guys, but christ, how do these scum get away with it?

it seems some of them just chose a job where they can legally beat people up.

The majority might well be regarded as "good guys". But the majority will certainly act just like that on occasions.

They view themselves as the good guys, and the good guys who are beyond challenge over their 'goodness'. Which pans out as meaning that anyone who dares oppose them in any way is likely to see their bad side in response to what they view as badness against them.

While there's probably some that are properly evil at all points, the numbers of those will be small. The average copper is just an average person with average attitudes and average responses to what they encounter - but with the authority and power they carry as a copper, and that authority and power is something they see as beyond any challenge.

The copper in this case was reported by a young female officer. There's an exceedingly high chance that she has now been 'blackballed' by her fellow officers and intimidated out of the job - that's the case in well over 90% of cases where one copper is dobbed in by another.

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They view themselves as the good guys, and the good guys who are beyond challenge over their 'goodness'. Which pans out as meaning that anyone who dares oppose them in any way is likely to see their bad side in response to what they view as badness against them.

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Alternatively, they could just attempt to uphold the law as best they possibly can. You make it sound like it isn't possible for a police officer to uphold the law because they reckon they are the law, which is so evidently bollocks.

There might be an "always good" copper somewhere I guess, but I doubt it very much. Have you ever met a 100% perfect person, who never gets riled at anything? ;)

In their view, they ARE upholding the law the best they possibly can when they act in these sorts of ways. They are the operational arm of the law, and any challenge to their authority is regarded as a challenge to the law. Hence why they act as they do.

You've clearly never even seen 'street wars' or one of the many other 'follow the police around' shows, which is the most basic thing you could do for research to have a vague idea what you're talking about, and show how they create much of the 'crime' that people are then arrested for.

And you've certainly never read any Home Office document based on thorough and properly conducted research on how the police operate - which state in more flowery words than I've used the same things that I've said.

If you care to notice, I'm not actually slagging them off for how they operate. However bad I find it, I realise that it's never going to work much differently to how it does. Their very position in society, along with them being nothing other than human beings make it the case.

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bang bang, saw,saw,hammer hammer..Soap Box being manufactured.....

So, my overall view.

The high profile cases there`s been lately... the drunken woman dragged to the cells. The G20 bloke etc...thats terrible and no way to condone that... but, look..we need a police force.

We (society) are not capable of behaving in a civil manner towards fellow men or property and need regulating.

And on that score--I`d much rather have this Police Force of ours than others I`ve seen (first hand and on TV).

What a f**kin job they have though. And of course things have changed so much over the years with regard to what they have to deal with.

We (soceity) are proper bastards really.

Question.... have we possibly lost faith in the police because of their behaviour or because of the way they behave when they have to deal with our behaviour?

Out of all the times I`ve been arrested I have to say theres only been twice I found the coppers bastards.

I think when you have to deal with them in a "situation"... they just dont give.

Its all black and white.

But, when you watch these TV programmes on nowadays and see the cops having to deal with all the shit--its no wonder the majority have become cynical towards the public..and therefore vice versa.

Its alright barking off on here criticising...but I bet you`d be straight onto 999 tonight if someone was breaking into yer house or summatt.

I`m not pro police... but I think you got to be a bit more objective about it all.

den

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There might be an "always good" copper somewhere I guess, but I doubt it very much. Have you ever met a 100% perfect person, who never gets riled at anything? ;)

In their view, they ARE upholding the law the best they possibly can when they act in these sorts of ways. They are the operational arm of the law, and any challenge to their authority is regarded as a challenge to the law. Hence why they act as they do.

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I'm saying that they may see themselves as simply a professional paid to uphold the law i.e. none of your prejudicial cowboy bollocks applies.

oh, they probably do see themselves "as simply a professional paid to uphold the law".

But they don't uphold the law, the very facts prove it all the bleeding time. That CCTV video is nothing that's unusual. Prisoners are treated that way as almost standard.

Never watched any of that shite, no.

you should do, if only once. It will revise the opinions you're expressing here towards something that is far closer to the reality.

And of course, when watching it, do remember that what you're watching are the things they're happy for you to see, that they hold no embarrassment about. From their side it's understandable that they have no embaressment, but from any impartial view their actions are very often outrageous.

Oh, but I have. Criminological studies based upon home office documentation are a stronghold of my profession. Totally irrelevant here though.

PMSL. :lol::lol:

You've not read them - you've freely admitted before that you've not - and you're showing no improvement of knowledge over the vast empty spaces you displayed on that occasion.

And they are exceedingly relevant. Those Home Office research projects do much more than just give crime statistics. The fact that you're saying they're not relevant gets to show you don't even know what they research - which you would do if you'd read what you're claiming here.

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Edit - In response to GrateDenini

Oh I fully believe we need a police force. We don't however need to put up with scum in the police force. There are enough people wanting the job that we don't have to keep these scum in, what is really quite a priveledged job.

My original rant is simply against those members of the public whose very job it is to enforce the law, breaking the very law they should be enforcing i.e. Going about attacking and killing people and then not only being found not guilty of a crime that the whole world has watched them commit, but keeping their jobs, that of enforcing the laws they just broke.

If that ain't FUBAR then I don't know what is.

As an aside, I was reading about the policing at the G20 and how, despite there not actually being any law allowing it, the police were confiscating all photography equipment. 1) What have they got to hide ? Well we all know the answer to that by the fottage that did escape these searches. 2) It is yet another example of Police thinking themselves above the law and able to do as they damn well please without even a passing reference to what is and isn't legal.

At the end of the day, Police are just jumped up security guards, no better no worse and the bad eggs should be sorted out and discarded.

Edited by The_Amazing_Oblong
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But I'm addressing your notion that they are either good or bad.

that's pretty clever, seeing that I've said nothing of the sort, and in fact have said the opposite.

I guess that all of your research is done as thoroughly :lol: - you've already demonstrated that your supposed interest in criminology is worthless.

(and before you start something on criminology, I'll point out there's likely to be few people in this country who are as well read as me in that subject. Take me on only if you think you can).

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At the end of the day, Police are just jumped up security guards, no better no worse and the bad eggs should be sorted out and discarded.

Spot on!

But unfortunately, it's not something that has even a remote possibility of happening. The police 'canteen culture' pressurises all other officers to join it, and those who stay outside of it invariably don't spend long within the police force. At the end of the day it's one big club where everyone is expected to conform to what is and not change it.

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that's pretty clever, seeing that I've said nothing of the sort, and in fact have said the opposite.

I guess that all of your research is done as thoroughly :lol: - you've already demonstrated that your supposed interest in criminology is worthless.

(and before you start something on criminology, I'll point out there's likely to be few people in this country who are as well read as me in that subject. Take me on only if you think you can).

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haha. Love it. Neil proclaims himself to be one of the country's leading criminology experts. That's made my day

Neil spent 15 years living with one of the country's leading criminology experts - I read everything she did as well as the stuff she didn't. She would happily proclaim that my knowledge of published research knocked hers for six. I've kept up the reading since.

That doesn't mean I know everything that someone like her does (after all, she did the research too [for the Home Office], which I didn't do), and I never attempted to understand the statistical angles they use on what they collated to put it into the published form, so there's plenty of areas within criminology that I know almost nothing about. But it's no overstatement for me to claim I'm exceedingly well read in the subject, and certainly better than some of those who teach it at degree level and higher.

Believe it, or not, makes no odds to me. :)

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I've never been arrested, but the people I've known who have, didn't come home looking like this:

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As I've said, they normally take more care to not leave marks - and those marks were in fact something that could be said (from one angle) to be an accident, because they're not from giving her a beating but from throwing her into a cell.

What I was specifically referring to as being pretty much the norm (tho perhaps not for females, as I've also said) is the throwing her around and throwing her into the cell. Someone arrested and who isn't playing nicely with the coppers in just the way they want/expect (which was the case with her too) stands a more than decent chance of being treated in a similar way to her. Coppers are only human, after all.

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No Neil, you think you said the opposite. What you actually said was a load of crap about them thinking themselves good guys. Here:

Well I'm afraid not Neil. Some people are good police officers because instead of thinking themselves righteous, they think themselves professional upholders of the law.

The majority of police are without delusional notions of righteousness and god complexes and in fact think that they are just doing their job.

You may have lived with one of many people who are involved in criminology (which is irrelevant here), but you clearly have very little knowledge of psychology.

What I said applies no less to those who think of themselves "professional upholders of the law". Because they think themselves professional, they think of themselves as good at their job at upholding the law. :rolleyes:

But coppers are no different to the you, me and the crims they nick - they are merely human (ooooo, some of that wonderful psychology that you're using as a diversion from you making false claims :lol:). That means that they have good days and bad days, days where they do their job perfectly and days where they don't do their job perfectly. They are just as flawed as everyone else. There is no perfect copper, no matter how professional they might consider themselves or actually be.

If you had the first idea what you were talking about, you'd know that the operation of the police at all levels is a standard part within criminology and so very relevant to mention criminology here. :rolleyes:

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