The Cuts. Is YOUR arse twitchin?

[eFestivals]

No, the facts show that the one who has learned through community based education (learning from peers as a group) has less applicable skills as the one has learned through research based education (learning independently through access to research tools).

About 30 years ago there wasn't any "community based education" - but there were still quite a few grammar schools (that have since disappeared), but all the same proportionality issues existed with uni intakes, with preference given to those from private schools.

So do please tell me what has happened since then within those universities to break that culture of giving preference to kids from private schools - it's not like they've been exposed in a big report as being 'institutionally bias' in the same way as the police have been exposed as institutionally racist to force them to reconsider what they're doing (yet even with the police, 15 years later, most of those same issues remain to a very similar extent).

back then kids from Grammar schools were being discriminated against by those top unis, and kids from secondary moderns and comprehensives were being discriminated against more - all when there was none of the community based education that you say is the reason, and so it's proven as not the reason.

In the minds of the dull and stupid, academics are the only people in the world who are perfect human beings, who never discriminate to favour people of their own culture.

Edited February 11, 2011 by eFestivals

[worm]

and it would need to start at the very beginning, by having half decent nursery/pre-school: NOT giving them tests as soon as they can toddle, NOT perpetuate the pointless tests throughout their education, NOT have classes that are massively over subsribed, NOT forcing kids to wear pointless uinforms

[llcoolphil]

Have we managed a link yet or still on the make it up as we go along approach?

[worm]

Have we managed a link yet or still on the make it up as we go along approach?

[llcoolphil]

what I said before that (in the same response)

[worm]

what I said before that (in the same response)

[eFestivals]

Have we managed a link yet or still on the make it up as we go along approach?

I've given up trying to have a sensible convo with you because I say something and write back complete and utter bollocks and claim it's what I've said when it's not remotely like it. There's no sensible discussion to be had with the fantasist you're being.

There's no point having a convo with someone who refuses to accept that there's aspects of a subject that have passed them by - something you proved as the case by denying what I said on one day, and then trying to tell me it's what you knew but what I didn't the next.

But just consider this: if the discrimination at the top unis is only caused by the "community based learning" of state schools as worm claims (and which you've not disputed with him), how come that same discrimination existed before "community based learning" existed and when grammar schools operated in the exact same way as those private schools?

[worm]

There's no point having a convo with someone who refuses to accept that there's aspects of a subject that have passed them by

[llcoolphil]

I've given up trying to have a sensible convo with you because I say something and write back complete and utter bollocks and claim it's what I've said when it's not remotely like it. There's no sensible discussion to be had with the fantasist you're being.

There's no point having a convo with someone who refuses to accept that there's aspects of a subject that have passed them by - something you proved as the case by denying what I said on one day, and then trying to tell me it's what you knew but what I didn't the next.

But just consider this: if the discrimination at the top unis is only caused by the "community based learning" of state schools as worm claims (and which you've not disputed with him), how come that same discrimination existed before "community based learning" existed and when grammar schools operated in the exact same way as those private schools?

[llcoolphil]

Sweden?

[worm]

Neil, you have not found any evidence whatsoever for a link between priviledge and entry to university. Your unverified notion that 'all things being equal' will favour the priviledged was also exposed as we have subsequently found that research-intensive universities will always favour a background in research-intensive education.

So, the only place we can see priviledge being an issue is the access that pupils with priviledged backgrounds have in getting an education in research-intensive study.

[eFestivals]

That's exactly your problem.

oh do f**k off. :r5olleyes:

I'm not the one saying "you've said x y & z" when you've said none of it or nothing like it.

Both you and Phil are doing that constantly - presumably because you're too mindnumbiongly stupid to have a discussion on the points raised.

What difference does that make?

it's the difference between what you say is going on - but which you've avoided answering AGAIN I see - and what I say is going on.

The solution to the problems can only be found from the problems which actually exist.

A process of selection is by nature discriminatory. The field has to be levelled in terms of opportunity at the school and background level, not the university entry level.

PMSL - it's all completely dependent on what the exact nature of the discrimination is, you thick twat.

If universities are discriminating on background - and history and the facts of proportionality shows without any doubt that they are - then the field can only be levelled at the school and background level by everyone going to a private school and by somehow magically changing their backgrounds into being the same as upper class twats.

f**k me, when god was handing out the brain cells you missed out, presumably because your head was so far up your own arse eating your own shit.

If it's JUST about "community based schooling", please explain how someone at a state school researches a subject (something you say they don't do) to get the same grade in the same exam as someone who goes to a private school where they're taught to 'research properly'. To make the claim that you have is anti-intellectual, and anti-academic - especially as you can back it up with nothing.

And address how come all the same discrimination on background existed when schooling was identical in the state and private sectors, or admit that your claims of it being JUST about "community based schooling" is wrong.

[eFestivals]

Given up because you've been found out.

Yeah, you're so right - I've been found out by the fantasies you've invented about what I didn't say. Way to go.

[feral chile]

it's partly that

the uniform issue is just an example of how 'we' our perpetually chasing our tails getting lost in trivialities

my daughters last few years of her secondary education has been blighted by the pointless and time consuming waste of time of implementing a uniform. Hours wasted on lecturing kids on what's appropriate school wear... it's been ridiculous

Edited February 11, 2011 by feral chile

[worm]

Yeah, you're so right - I've been found out by the fantasies you've invented about what I didn't say. Way to go.

Edited February 11, 2011 by worm

[eFestivals]

Neil, you have not found any evidence whatsoever for a link between priviledge and entry to university.

I have seen plenty of evidence of it. The fact that you haven't changes nothing, but does show you as short of the facts.

But similarly, you have not found any evidence of the discrimination being about "community based schooling", because the historical facts show that the same discrimination existed before such a thing existed.

Your unverified notion that 'all things being equal' will favour the priviledged was also exposed as we have subsequently found that research-intensive universities will always favour a background in research-intensive education.

yet when all schooling was done in the same manner - so that it was all "research-intensive education" in both the private and state sectors - those unis still favoured private school pupils.

This is a relevant fact, and one you avoid addressing - because you can't without admitting that your whole take is wrong.

So, the only place we can see priviledge being an issue is the access that pupils with priviledged backgrounds have in getting an education in research-intensive study.

Only if you're f**king blind!!!

The historical facts prove this wrong.

The contemporary facts prove this wrong.

[feral chile]

oh do f**k off. :r5olleyes:

I'm not the one saying "you've said x y & z" when you've said none of it or nothing like it.

Both you and Phil are doing that constantly - presumably because you're too mindnumbiongly stupid to have a discussion on the points raised.

it's the difference between what you say is going on - but which you've avoided answering AGAIN I see - and what I say is going on.

The solution to the problems can only be found from the problems which actually exist.

PMSL - it's all completely dependent on what the exact nature of the discrimination is, you thick twat.

If universities are discriminating on background - and history and the facts of proportionality shows without any doubt that they are - then the field can only be levelled at the school and background level by everyone going to a private school and by somehow magically changing their backgrounds into being the same as upper class twats.

f**k me, when god was handing out the brain cells you missed out, presumably because your head was so far up your own arse eating your own shit.

If it's JUST about "community based schooling", please explain how someone at a state school researches a subject (something you say they don't do) to get the same grade in the same exam as someone who goes to a private school where they're taught to 'research properly'. To make the claim that you have is anti-intellectual, and anti-academic - especially as you can back it up with nothing.

And address how come all the same discrimination on background existed when schooling was identical in the state and private sectors, or admit that your claims of it being JUST about "community based schooling" is wrong.

Edited February 11, 2011 by feral chile

[worm]

I have seen plenty of evidence of it. The fact that you haven't changes nothing, but does show you as short of the facts.

But similarly, you have not found any evidence of the discrimination being about "community based schooling", because the historical facts show that the same discrimination existed before such a thing existed.

yet when all schooling was done in the same manner - so that it was all "research-intensive education" in both the private and state sectors - those unis still favoured private school pupils.

This is a relevant fact, and one you avoid addressing - because you can't without admitting that your whole take is wrong.

Only if you're f**king blind!!!

The historical facts prove this wrong.

The contemporary facts prove this wrong.

[eFestivals]

You've said that there's discrimination on the basis of school, yet you've provided absolutely no evidence at all.

You've said you know about every fact of this subject but you've provided absolutely no evidence at all. You're doing nothing different you thick twat, and nor is Phil.

If you want the evidence for what I say - and which proves the lie of your "community based education" take on things - just look up and compare the current proportional intake of applicants from both private and state schools with the proportion they took 30+ years ago.

It's hardly changed in that time, but the difference now between how kids are schooled in those different sectors is massive, when it wasn't previously.

Or do you need teacher to show it all to you, and prove the lie of your own ability in research?

[eFestivals]

Just show the facts, no one's interested in your semantic bullshit.

it seems you don't yourself have the research skills you claim as absolutely necessary.

Teacher, teacher, tell me how it's done. I can't do it myself.

[worm]

The equality thing fails straight away. The kids who wear second hand uniforms with patches and holes or too big or too small etc etc are identified just as easily. In fact compared to kids who are happy to wear jeans and trainers, where a bit of 'wear' is desired sometimes, it's more obvious.

[eFestivals]

Just show the facts, no one's interested in your semantic bullshit.

so show me the facts for your claims that it JUST about "community based schooling".

And then there was silence from worm.

[llcoolphil]

Yeah, you're so right - I've been found out by the fantasies you've invented about what I didn't say. Way to go.

[eFestivals]

here

it's just an example.

I'm no expert on education abroad, what I do know is that ours has been messed around with for the last 20-30 years, getting bogged down with league tables and tests (and uniforms), and the kids are just part of an ongoing, not very succesful experiment

Sweden is just about the very worst example you could put forwards - from one angle, anyway.

Our govt claim that many of the changes they're making are sourced from Sweden - and they are. But they're sourced from Sweden a while back, because they're ideas that Sweden has now reversed, having seen that they've failed.

[worm]

You've said you know about every fact of this subject but you've provided absolutely no evidence at all. You're doing nothing different you thick twat, and nor is Phil.