Taking to the streets on March 26th - Cuts protest

[llcoolphil]

Yes, I saw that ('Lucy' i think she was called). I think it was more a case of Newsnight having a poor choice of guest than Lucy's failure to committ one way or another. My take on it was that Lucy had a particular set of beliefs that direct action was needed - and her 'vision' of direct action was through using the mediums of art installations, group hugs and having sing-songs whilst occupying banks or suchlike. A bit wishy-washy perhaps but it's what she passionately believed in (so i'm not going to rain on her parade) and she was simply reluctant to pass judgement on anyone else's choice of action to achieve the same aims as her (that aim being no cuts). As for her refusal of the premise of a question she was posited - i think she was refusing to acknowledge the inherent maxim/axioms present within the question which was predicated on the basis that some of the direct action had been 'destructive'. If she'd have been more confrontational/articulate she should, perhaps, have questioned the notion of describing the smashing of a few windows etc. as 'destruction' whilst referring to the economic 'destruction' that the coalition budgets and spending review will cause as 'cuts'. At that point, i think to get her point across, (although i'm aware that i'm putting words into her mouth here) she should have turned the question by stating that the real vandalism and destruction is that which is going to be wreaked upon manifold communities as a consequence of 'the cuts'. But, she was a bit of a drip really.

[llcoolphil]

I would very much like to see that growing here, harnessing the power of the internet to do more than beat Cowell to Christmas No. 1 and targetting effective protests.

[llcoolphil]

[gratedenini]

That clip takes a bit of working out, but using my lip-reading skills--I could ascertain that the individual said "I`m here to check the fire-extinguishers, let me through"....

Its quite fascinating to see how discussions go on here now.. we have our resident (now two-fold) acedemics who always offer ---well -an acedemic view on things. And I must say.. their posts do make me think a lot.

Then you get those who think they are academics and try to hold a debating candle to the TA (true academics).

Then--there are the passionates who speak auf die hertzen... its what they believe in... debatable if its viable--but thats not a concern,because they believe in it.

Then, El Presidente will return--and it becomes a ..this is how it is, and this is how its gonna be thread.

Then, it gets funny for a while-- then it isn`t. Then people stop posting..but traffic is still way up on previous times.

Patrick McGooo-on Lad. The Prisoner 1978

den

[rabid]

It's being worked on right now, but it's a more complicated affair than going and sitting in Topman (which I support just as much)and there are details that need working out before a big launch that looks half arsed. But it is coming

[gratedenini]

Interesting, I look forward to seeing how this develops. I support going and sitting in Topman too, as GF said - the French seem to have the right idea about this sort of thing.

[Paul ™]

I notice The Peoples Emporium of Primani is never targetted in these operations.....

den

[diddly-dee]

I thought she did fantastically - especially as she had been on so much media all day. I think we also need to bear in mind that UKuncut/those arrested are going to be challenging their charges and you wouldn't want to be arming the other side with stuff you said on telly

[llcoolphil]

I notice The Peoples Emporium of Primani is never targetted in these operations.....

den

[worm]

Interesting, I look forward to seeing how this develops. I support going and sitting in Topman too, as GF said - the French seem to have the right idea about this sort of thing.

Edited March 30, 2011 by worm

[rabid]

You cant target everything all at once though eh

[worm]

Yeah they're next in line to go up against the wall come the revolution. Right after Starbucks.

[llcoolphil]

Yeah they're next in line to go up against the wall come the revolution. Right after Starbucks.

[worm]

even the shit ones?

[lost]

. If one has been up since half five, one isn't going to enter the battlezone without a double shot of espresso to gird the loins is one?

[llcoolphil]

the fuel of middle class Trots everywhere

[rabid]

If you want a cup of coffee at a service station, what's a working class revolutionary hero to do? Starbucks only use Fairtrade coffee so Im supporting my brothers in arms in Coasta Rica rather than oppressing them. If one has been up since half five, one isn't going to enter the battlezone without a double shot of espresso to gird the loins is one?

[llcoolphil]

About right...

[gratedenini]

Well there you have it

[TalkShow Bob]

People are trying to get the andrew lansley rap to number 1 - buy it, buy it now on iTunes!

[llcoolphil]

So half a million people take to the streets and Nick Clegg announces there will be substantive changes to the NHS bill (though not a single Lib Dem MP voted against it during its first reading) and delays its progress until after the May elections. Some coincidence that (though I accept it was part of a wider lobby). Add in the chaos of the tuition fees where virtually every university that has decided has declared they'll be charging the full £9000 amount and Willetts has admitted OFFA cant do anything to stop them. That's going to cost the government over an extra £1bn over the lifetime of this parliament unless they cut student numbers by 5% (about 17,000 places). His conference will live with that less than they'll live with NHS reforms. We had the u turn on the forests sell off. Anymore?

A catastrophic lib dem showing at the local and welsh and scottish elections and a potential defeat on AV (though let's not get carried away on that one folks!) and the coalition moves from local difficulty into crisis. Keep up the pressure people, we can win this battle

[eFestivals]

So half a million people take to the streets and Nick Clegg announces there will be substantive changes to the NHS bill (though not a single Lib Dem MP voted against it during its first reading) and delays its progress until after the May elections. Some coincidence that (though I accept it was part of a wider lobby). Add in the chaos of the tuition fees where virtually every university that has decided has declared they'll be charging the full £9000 amount and Willetts has admitted OFFA cant do anything to stop them. That's going to cost the government over an extra £1bn over the lifetime of this parliament unless they cut student numbers by 5% (about 17,000 places). His conference will live with that less than they'll live with NHS reforms. We had the u turn on the forests sell off. Anymore?

A catastrophic lib dem showing at the local and welsh and scottish elections and a potential defeat on AV (though let's not get carried away on that one folks!) and the coalition moves from local difficulty into crisis. Keep up the pressure people, we can win this battle

while I don't much disagree with what you've said, I can only see that 'crisis' causing the LibDims to hold onto the power they have and hope that things can get better for them by the time of the next general election.

If they ditch the coalition now then the only outcome for them is oblivion. While the longer-term prospects for them probably aren't much better, there's at least the chance that they will be better. And that'll cause them to hang on - after all, any LibDim MP who causes the coalition to dissolve is ultimately voting for the immediate loss of his own job as an MP, and turkeys rarely vote for xmas.

[rabid]

I can't decide what to do (or even think...!!??) about AV. It feels like a small step forward, but quite a few back

[eFestivals]

I can't decide what to do (or even think...!!??) about AV. It feels like a small step forward, but quite a few back

Yeah, me too.

Ultimately tho, it's a stitch-up. No matter what the likes of Dave Moron thinks about it (and of course he hates it, cos it's likely to result in far fewer tory MPs. In most places there's a 'progressive' majority rather than conservative reactionary one), the electoral system that's used should be the choice of that electorate and not be a choice that's limited by the prejudices of any political party that's either in or out of power.

And of course the choice we're being offered is limited. There's no option for people to vote for any system of PR - which is of course the clear preferred system for those that wish for an electoral system reform. More than that even, just about every opinion poll done on the subject over a number of years has shown that there's a clear majority in favour of PR in one form or other.

The anti-PR people like to say "but you don't have a local representative with PR" (which isn't true in most systems of PR, tho things with that are less clear than they are with FPTP), yet when different questions are posed to them those same people will say "but you vote for a party's programme" - thus exposing the myth of what they say about "local representation".

Elections are meant to be the choice of the people. The fact that Dave Moron won't allow the people to make that free choice exposes him as anti-democratic.

[worm]

Seems to me to be a way of voting in the least unpopular candidate.