France Burqa ban

[eFestivals]

Is the Muslim faith?

Yep.

The difference between other laws that impact on religious freedom and this particular French law? Only this French law has been formulated specifically to address a religious idea, while those other laws have not.

For example, in the UK the Catholic adoption agencies have to work to general adoption laws, that forbid homophobic influence on where a child is placed; it's not a law that has been formulated specifically to attack that religion, but instead to further anti-homophobic ideas (but which then impacts on that religion).

The same is not true with this French law. It hasn't been introduced to free Muslim women from the (supposed) oppression of the veil, but to please right-wing nutters who dislike the display of a different and disliked culture within their country.

[eFestivals]

Yes it is. It has nothing to do with religion. Other religious regalia is not banned. Only the Burqa because of its inherent sexism.

It has everything to do with religion. It's only been introduced because of religion, and not because of any oppression or because of security fears over hidden faces.

I've no problem in principle with the introduction of laws only because of religion - BUT I DO have problems with the targetting of one particular religion.

[eFestivals]

That's a religious matter though. It's private. He is an employee of a religious group. He's not a doctor or a social worker. They're allowed to wear the Burqa indoors. It's banned in public spaces.

There's no f**king difference.

It's not like religious ministers are only permitted to wear the grab associated with their sexism within a Church, is it?

They can wear their sexist religious garmets anywhere. Only Muslim women have had a ban imposed for their religious sexist garments.

[eFestivals]

if there was more consistency would you be ok with the ban?

if anti-sexism laws were imposed equally on all religions, I'd be cheering from the rooftops.

This French veil ban is a sop to fascists, and nothing more than that.

[The Nal]

if anti-sexism laws were imposed equally on all religions, I'd be cheering from the rooftops.

This French veil ban is a sop to fascists, and nothing more than that.

[eFestivals]

do you think it's ok for men to make women wear a veil in public?

No I don't. Similarly, do you think it's right for poorly informed men to wrongly state that that is the only reason that some Muslim women wear a veil?

The simple fact is that the reason is not just what you said there. It's most normal in western democracies when there's a mix of choice and coercion for the law to outlaw the coercion side of things and allow the choice side of things, and to offer support to the coerced so that they can escape that coercion if they wish to.

Because this French law is operating outside of that norm (and from other aspects too), it becomes clear that this law is about targeting Muslim women because they're Muslim and not for any of the other reasons that people have raised. Any law or policy only has the desired effect if it comes about for sound reasons and not the wrong reasons, because those wrong reasons then become a part of the consideration and act against any good reasons.

[worm]

Yep.

[worm]

There's no f**king difference.

It's not like religious ministers are only permitted to wear the grab associated with their sexism within a Church, is it?

They can wear their sexist religious garmets anywhere. Only Muslim women have had a ban imposed for their religious sexist garments.

[worm]

Similarly, do you think it's right for poorly informed men to wrongly state that that is the only reason that some Muslim women wear a veil?

[eFestivals]

f**k me!

It's religious people practicing within the confines of their own private realm.

Wearing a Burqa is not. It's openly practicing your religion in public spaces.

So nuns never wear their garb on the streets? And priests, vicars , bishops, don't either?

There is zero difference between these things and an Islamic veil.

[eFestivals]

Jesus Neil, the Burqa is to be worn in public at all times. We're not talking about some arbitrary life-style choice you make - one day a t-shirt and a pair of jeans and the next you cover yourself from head to toe with only your eyes showing.

It is a religious choice - a life-style choice if you like. It is not a proscribed must-wear garmet for Muslims.

It would help if you actually knew what you were talking about.

[The Nal]

Wearing a Burqa is not. It's openly practicing your religion in public spaces.

Edited April 12, 2011 by The Nal

[worm]

So nuns never wear their garb on the streets?

[worm]

It is a religious choice - a life-style choice if you like.

[worm]

Yeah imagine another religion had the f**king cheek to do that!!?

[eFestivals]

Are they allowed to wear other garments in public?

no idea about nuns and vicars, but muslim women certainly are.

[eFestivals]

No it isn't. It's a strict code for women brought up in an extremist branch of a faith.

Wrong. It's a cultural item, and very much the norm for some.

But there's also plenty who choose to wear it thru choice alone - in fact, the majority that do wear it in the west wear it thru choice and not culture.

Edited April 12, 2011 by eFestivals

[The Nal]

There's no problem with people practicing their faith in public. There's a problem with women being forced to cover themselves up from head to toe when they go public.

[worm]

But that is them practicing their faith.

[The Nal]

And it isn't allowed in France because it's sexist.

[worm]

Wrong. It's a cultural item, and very much the norm for some.

But there's also plenty who choose to wear it thru choice alone - in fact, the majority that do wear it in the west wear it thru choice and not culture.

[eFestivals]

And it isn't allowed in France because it annoys sexist fascists

corrected for you.

[worm]

So they’ve taken the first step to banning Islam then in France? Its still part of their religion. As idiotic as it may be.

[eFestivals]

But what you're referring to isn't the Burqa.

I've not refered to the burqa once.

I've exclusively used the word "veil" (or "Muslim veil" or "Islamic veil") to ensure that what I say is 100% clear.

You meanwhile will throw in any old made up shit, as you have just here.

[worm]

corrected for you.