thought for the day... again... capitalism? dying? dead?

[eFestivals]

I just let you talk and you make yourself lack total creditability on the issue of business...

I mean seriously... IT geek turns off phone so no one needs a phone... laughable...

I've already said that mobiles weren't needed anywhere within that business.

Did the MD need a mobile, else the business would have failed? Nope.

Did the company accountant need a mobile else the business would have failed? Nope.

Did the head buyer or his minions need a mobile else the business would have failed? Nope.

Did the operations manager or his minions need a mobile else the business would have failed? Nope.

Did the IT manager or his minions need a mobile else the business would have failed? Nope.

Did the distribution manager or his minions need a mobile else the business would have failed? Nope.

Did the tens of store managers or their minions need a mobile else the business would have failed? Nope.

Would you like me to go on? Perhaps the office cleaner needed one; I don't if they did as I wasn't involved in their job as I was with everyone elses.

[eFestivals]

What does that mean? Of course he did. It wasn't his primary concern, sure, but his early "break even" model of software development didn't last long once he realised he could rake in the big bucks.

He developed DOS just because he could.

He developed windows just because he could.

Money that could be gained from doing those things was no part of either.

And in both instances what he did was steal ideas from others who'd developed those ideas completely outside of commercial environments, so nothing of those things would have been changed if there was never any capitalism.

If you tell someone "not only can you do what you're already doing, but you can be hugely rich as well", then the majority of people will of course say "OK, I'll have some of that". But it's something *after* the event, and nothing to do with why they did what they did.

FFS, the whole fucking internet and the computer industry as a whole only exists because it WASN'T commercial, not because it was.

[eFestivals]

You are talking crap... Simples...

PMSL.

When you've got a moment, I suggest you phone up the current MD of HMV and ask him if Globus would have failed if he taken mobiles away from all of his staff.

And then tell me I'm talking crap, OK?

[kaosmark2]

Anyone suggesting a modern business can survive without mobile phones and everything they bring is talking crap

CRAP CRAP CRAP

[5co77ie]

Anyone suggesting a modern business can survive without mobile phones and everything they bring is talking crap

CRAP CRAP CRAP

Edited November 3, 2011 by 5co77ie

[eFestivals]

Anyone suggesting a modern business can survive without mobile phones and everything they bring is talking crap

CRAP CRAP CRAP

PMSL.

As you're such an expert, please do tell me what exactly it is about mobiles that would cause a £100M+ turnover retail business to collapse - or even to be mildly damaged - if they didn't use mobile phones?

[eFestivals]

Of course you have to apply a bit of common sense to what I am saying.. Your local dry cleaners will do just fine...

And, so Scottie has just proven, also the man who is generally regarded as the best businessman in thew world.

Oh dear.

[kaosmark2]

Of course you have to apply a bit of common sense to what I am saying.. Your local dry cleaners will do just fine...

[5co77ie]

And, so Scottie has just proven, also the man who is generally regarded as the best businessman in thew world.

Oh dear.

[Ed209]

The ones littering this thread. I've posted countless videos in here, yet the only feedback so far has been 'eh, can't be bothered watching that'.

Again I think it comes from our conditioning to seek wins rather than truth. There have been times where I have presented everything as logically as I can, only for the other person to quickly dismiss them, miss the point etc because they are indulging in their want to beat me in an argument - accepting something I presented would mean they would lose the argument and they would have to concede I was right. So instead of seeking truth it becomes simply about being right in front of everyone. This is massively prevalent on message boards where posts get recorded and so people get locked into their train of thought, locking horns, seeking the win. It's happened a few times in this thread; resorting to sarcastic, obtuse remarks begin to substitute facts and evidence and our competitive conditioning takes hold. It turns every discussion away from seeking truth and more about making others look stupid; a glorified pissing contest.

Watch the zeitgeist movies, watch The Corporation, watch videos on the Venus Project. Listen to some seminars by Noam Chomsky. Google something. It's all out there at your fingertips.

Edited November 3, 2011 by Ed209

[kaosmark2]

brilliant...

the idea that peole might have to wait for someone to get back in touch.... god forbid

mobiles also 'allow' people to be less reliable. Appointments are changed at the last minute, just because they can.

[Ed209]

a lot of people are like you... think (know) the system is screwed, but feel powerless. Sometimes it helps talking about it, it helps me anyway.

[abdoujaparov]

All I see on here is people sat at their computer pissing and moaning about how screwed the system is. But why aren't any of them doing anything about it? Why are none of them in the City protesting right now!? The man hours certain people have spent on here calling people names and just criticising the system and all who try to get by in it, surely could have been put to better use if they felt so strongly about it.

[fred quimby]

The ones littering this thread. I've posted countless videos in here, yet the only feedback so far has been 'eh, can't be bothered watching that'.

Watch the zeitgeist movies, watch The Corporation, watch videos on the Venus Project. Listen to some seminars by Noam Chomsky. Google something. It's all out there at your fingertips.

[5co77ie]

I'm warming to Mr Sarkozy who said France, Germany and a number of other countries supported a Robin Hood tax, and has just said "France will fight for that tax to become a reality."

[eFestivals]

[lost]

Everyone Hates Capitalism: http://dailyreckoning.com/everybody-hates-capitalism/

[5co77ie]

Everyone Hates Capitalism: http://dailyreckonin...tes-capitalism/

[lost]

I don't think the solution proferred there of having capitalism in the health service as an answer.

[grumpyhack]

when did socialism fail?

[elfweirdigan]

Just back from St Paul's (OccupyLSX) for a couple of days, will be heading back there next week.

For info on the Occupy Movement and London in particular, see occupylsx.org

For a personal take on it all - daily diary, newsy updates and in-depth analyses - try this newly-begun blog: hazelhedge.wordpress.com

[sifi]

I work for an absolutely goliath of an organisation and can confirm that the mobile phone is heavily used, mainly blackberry for e-mailing. Most people have one, but there's not normally anything that can't wait until the next day, it's just part of the American work culture that we are subjected to which has seen average working hours increase from 40 to above 60 hours a week in America. It's not uncommon in my job to work fourteen hour days. I can't imagine that the firm would fall apart if mobiles stopped working for a few days.

I walk past the people protesting outside St Pauls every day and going home at about half ten the other night I often wonder about these people. Who are they? Why aren't they working? I wish I could afford not to work and sit around and sit around all day playing music, smoking spliffs and drinking Starbucks coffee with the occassional M&S run.

And as for capitalism driving innovation - I disagree entirely. I don't think that the real innovators are driven by cash, they want to innovate and create things. Look at Tim Berners Lee for example. He didn't do what he did for money, did he? So there are clearly other ways to innovate other than through the capitalist model.

Edited November 7, 2011 by sifi

[eFestivals]

I walk past the people protesting outside St Pauls every day and going home at about half ten the other night I often wonder about these people. Who are they? Why aren't they working? I wish I could afford not to work and sit around

With recent-graduate unemployment running at 20%+ and youth unemployment overall even higher, there's plenty of people with time on their hands and not their own fault.

And it's hardly a surprise that there might be a large proportion of unemployed graduates amongst them. After all, those are the people who were told by the govt that if they did some specific things and took on huge debts to do those things they'd have a rosy future, when all they get from the experience is nothing (right now, at least).

It was always clear to me that those govt suggestions (or even promises) were going to fall flat. For new graduates (before the far higher fees get to hit) the financial advantage of going to Uni is now thought to be just £2000 on average over a lifetime. Once the higher fees get to hit then there will be a cost and no advantage of going that route - tho of course those who land the 'good jobs' will be hugely quids-in.

And who will land those 'good jobs'? It'll be those people with the right contacts from either going to the 'right' school or by coming from the 'right' family. So unless the average person with a state education is going to be in one of the professions where a high wage is guaranteed (doctors, solicitors and the like) and a meritocracy is still in operation in those professions, it's now the case that degree education will probably bring no financial advantage.

[sifi]

There are some graduates in there, no doubt. And they might be of the mind of "twenty days of schooling and they put me on the dayshift" mentality, I don't know - all I do know is that there are shitty jobs around in central London just like the shitty job I got in central London when I finished University. But that's not really the point I was getting at - there are lots of people there who have not just graduated and can't get on a grad scheme. Maybe they are all unemployed, maybe you get some week-end warriors. Maybe there some professional protesting types in there.

One thing is for sure is that I think the protest has become a bit diluted. When it first went up, it was specifically about bankers and current financial crisis. Now there are banners about public sector cuts, about green and environmental issues, a few generic capitalism isn't working statements, Cameron out - it's become like a buffet lunch of leftist griping.

I'd imagine if you asked a group of these people what are they protesting against, you'd get at least one response of "what have you got?"

Which is all rather a shame because those who have everything to lose by seeing a more equal society need to paint these people as freaks so the rest of us don't join the cause in revolution. ~

Edited November 7, 2011 by sifi

[sifi]

Right. Because for example British Airways are going to change their insurers for their entire fleet because they couldn't get hold of someone on the phone.