thought for the day... again... capitalism? dying? dead?

[fred quimby]

I must say I'm finding all this Euro Crisis hard to understand fully ( much reading to be done), and let's face it most leading figures have no clue what is going on, there has been little historic evidence of this, (except Neil who seems to be sure what the ends game is . I guess my great grandkids will be studying this at some point.

My feelings are that this has been coming (without the current problems). You can't have a single currency without Fiscal unity, that never was going to work it's a bit cart before the horse. How this works or whether Europe strangles itself for many years to get the foundations properly in (without a few nations dominating the whole thing) I obviously don't know, but am intrigued by the possibilities.

As the past few months have shown me is that no one knows what they are on about.

[fred quimby]

How many people want a federal europe lead by France and Germany with little consideration for our thoughts and feelings ?

Serious question... That is what was on the table folks...

Edited December 9, 2011 by fred quimby

[kaosmark2]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-16130086

This man really is awful...

Last week he says he supported the PMs decision.... Today he is everywhere saying how bad it is for Britain... Anyone voting Lib Dem in the next election really has to ask why...

I think Labour have made the best points. While this deal couldn't be agreed too, Cameron should of been greasing the wheels on a better deal months ago... Which he stands accused of not doing...

[kaosmark2]

I am not seeing a single Tory, Lib Dem or Labour person saying the tabled deal was good enough to agree to... What I am seeing is that the tabled deal should of been negioated better over the previous months.. Suggested by both the Lib Dems and Labour... and some of the right wing media (all be it small)...

Like it or not we are still reliant on financial services in this country and if that business is done here or on Wall Street it going to behave much the same way. So it might as well happen here for our benefit and allow us to place some control over it rather than leaving it to others...

I really want us in Europe to play an active role. I think Cameron's self interest has hurt us a bit here... The deal should of been made to work...

[kaosmark2]

I think that is ultimate agreement which everyone is coming to...

Seems like Cameron wanted this now... To appease those 90 or so MPs who have a clear agenda to take us out of Europe...

Surprised UKIP is kicking up a fuss... If the predicted isolation happens then the end play is the UK will have to consider its place in the EU... Being in it and being dedicated to is an impossiblle position for the UK and we would have to pull out.

The saving grace is the Germans won't be wanting to push off the UK. They aren't stupid and they know ultimately the UK is important to the Europe and the Euro Zone... That is Cameron's gamble...

[lost]

Interesting to hear Labour refuse to say they would have of signed the deal. Labour are much more anti-euro now than under Blair, with the 3% deficit rule and budget having to be signed off by the EU on the table, you can just imagine what would happen if Ed Balls turned up with his spending plans. He'd of been laughed out of Germany.

[5co77ie]

You really are talking crap...

[kaosmark2]

Cleggs gone AWOL LOL!

[eFestivals]

and Dave Moron's brain has gone awol.

Oh hang on ... was it ever there?

[eFestivals]

So.... Dave Moron says he didn't sign up because the eurozone wanted to regulate the banks in too weak a manner.

OK, that means that Dave Moron wants to regulate the banks toughly ... so the question has to be asked: why hasn't he regulated them at all?

The only thing that the tories have done towards the banks since they've returned to power is to CUT the amount of tax they pay.

That's really getting tough with them, eh?

Edited December 12, 2011 by eFestivals

[lost]

French kicking off:

http://www.telegraph...tian-Noyer.html

Britain should have its AAA credit rating cut before France, according to Christian Noyer, head of the French central bank, as the war of words between the two countries heats up following David Cameron's EU treaty veto.

A downgrade of France's AAA rating would not be justified and the ratings agencies are making decisions based more on politics than economics, said Christian Noyer, who is a European Central Bank policymaker as well as head of the Banque de France.

"The downgrade does not appear to me to be justified when considering economic fundamentals," Mr Noyer said in an interview with local newspaper Le Telegramme de Brest.

"Otherwise, they should start by downgrading Britain which has more deficits, as much debt, more inflation, less growth than us and where credit is slumping," he went on

Edited December 15, 2011 by lost

[5co77ie]

The Indie has revealed just how hard the banks are lobbying the government to prevent reforms:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/revealed-bankers-secret-meetings-with-ministers-6277778.html

[russycarps]

French kicking off:

http://www.telegraph...tian-Noyer.html

[5co77ie]

....and here comes the lobbyist spin:

http://www.uknetguide.co.uk/Latest-News/Tax-returns-from-banks-up-claims-PwC-801241525.html

Stuart Fraser, policy chairman for the City of London Corporation, said: "At a time when the City's value is being questioned, both in the UK and in Europe, these figures highlight the huge fiscal contribution it continues to make, even in this extremely challenging economic environment."

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

He's right. It's laughable we have a tripe A rating. And to pretend that the low interest rates on government bonds indicates our economy is healthy and that the austerity plan is working is laughable.

France is a great country. France is superior to the UK in almost every way.

[sifi]

He's right. It's laughable we have a tripe A rating. And to pretend that the low interest rates on government bonds indicates our economy is healthy and that the austerity plan is working is laughable.

France is a great country. France is superior to the UK in almost every way.

[sifi]

They are certainly superior at collaborating with the Germans.

[russycarps]

Xenophobia is alive and well I see. No surprise to see brits harping on about the world wars.

Historically, France has battered us many times you know.

But anyway, who cares about ancient history, I am talking about the present.

The proles over there are a lot less likely than us brits to just roll over and accept the shite our various governments force upon us. A generally more politicised and intelligent populace I reckon.

In fact, just about every other country in Europe I can think of is more politically aware and intelligent than the British I reckon.

The American influence on our way of life is more noticeable than ever in matters political.

[kaosmark2]

Yeah such great people they allowed their press to be controlled...

They are a bunch of fuck wits and they all stink of fags and sweat... Decent place to holiday if you can mostly avoid them though...

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

I was talking about the present day, with a gentle reference to the war of course. Anyway you do indeed have to admire the French. Their gallic bastardry knows no bounds. They will even set fire to live sheep to prove a point. Can't forgive them for blowing up the Greenpeace ship though and killing somebody on it. That was a tad out of order.

[sifi]

Xenophobia is alive and well I see. No surprise to see brits harping on about the world wars.

Historically, France has battered us many times you know.

But anyway, who cares about ancient history, I am talking about the present.

The proles over there are a lot less likely than us brits to just roll over and accept the shite our various governments force upon us. A generally more politicised and intelligent populace I reckon.

In fact, just about every other country in Europe I can think of is more politically aware and intelligent than the British I reckon.

The American influence on our way of life is more noticeable than ever in matters political.

[5co77ie]

The new treaty has been drafted:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/first-draft-of-new-european-treaty-sent-to-governments-formal-talks-start-tuesday/2011/12/16/gIQA4pwUyO_story.html

Only nine countries using the Euro need to agree to it for it to become ratified. So Ireland don't need to vote yes and don't need a referendum.

[5co77ie]

Fitch Ratings has cut its long-term ratings for seven major banks in Europe and the US, warning that big financial institutions “are particularly sensitive to the increased challenges the financial markets face”.

Fitch has concluded that a "comprehensive solution" to the Eurozone crisis is technically and politically beyond reach:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b628be62-27c3-11e1-9433-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1gio40VVp

Fitch has also placed Belgium, Spain, Italy, Ireland, Slovenia, Cyprus on rating watch negative – France missed the bullet.

[lost]

The Socialist candidate for the imminent French presidential election (who is well in the lead in opinion polls) says he will seek to renegotiate the Treaty agreed last week.

[5co77ie]

Upcoming Occupy London events below with more being added daily:

Ongoing over the Festive period and beyond:

• Occupy Santa - Please send cards (and pictures, notes and tweets) containing your wishes for a better world for 2012. We'll do what we can to make them come true. Write to: Occupy London, Info Tent, St Paul's Churchyard, London, EC4M 8AD; or tweet @occupylondon or email outreach@occupylsx.org

• Nationally & Internationally - Occupiers will be outreaching to communities around the globe; taking the Occupy Toolkit on our Christmas journeys and geeing up some General Assemblies along the way. [1]

• Launch of Economics Faculty of Tent City University, new online leaning programme. Over the past months Occupy London's Tent City University has widened the boundaries of economic discourse, hosting a huge number of talks, lectures, debates, teach outs and discussions. In the words of Giles Fraser “Occupy really has made whole new conversations possible.” It is now launching an exciting new online leaning programme. The first course to be released is our Diploma in Occupied Economics. Over the course of around 70 questions the history and causes of the current economic predicament is explored. For details see http://tentcityuniversity.occupylsx.org/?page_id=172

Friday 23 December

• 11am - Midday Social Dreaming at Finsbury Square. Exploring the social issues behind the protest through dreams

• 3-4pm 'Hold onto Your Kids' with Gabor Máte, PhD at Tent City University (TCU) at St Paul's. With our basic needs unmet due to stresses of our social system and culture, how can we better understand each other and fill in those gaps so that we can have the emotional stability and cohesion to build a better world, without excluding and walking away from those most in need

• 4-5pm - Narco Trafficking at TCU at St Paul's - "The only way to stop the laundering of narco-trafficking monies would be to legalise the whole trade" Interpol boss 2002

• 6-7pm - Political discussion on why we are occupying and what needs to happen to better the future. At TCU at St Paul's

• 6-9pm - Learn Thai Yoga Massage at Bank of Ideas - Thai yoga massage uses palm and thumb presses, whole body stretches and foot massage to bring a shift in awareness and give encouragement to the natural healing response within our bodies.

• 8-10.45pm - The Complete Bankers Minifest by the steps of St Paul's - Music and poetry night in support of Occupy. Acts confirmed so far include: Nigel Noize, Jo the Firedancer, Chris Byrne, Phil Zimmerman, Al & Tom, Niall McDevitt, Wasim Bsomebody Dapoet, Nick Hayles, Lisa Lore, The Orchestra of love & redemption, Moses Scott., Down with the West, Cosimoe Ercole

• 7pm - General Assembly at St Paul's looking at political issues of the day. All welcome to get involved and find out more about Occupy's discussion and decision making process where people vote on policies rather than people.

Saturday 24 December

• 12 Midday- 2pm - A Transformative Hermeneutics of the Quantum Revolution at Bank of Ideas. Talk exploring the parallel emergence of recent scientific breakthroughs in Quantum Mechanics, on the one hand and transformative revolutionary thinking, on the other, which has served to undermine Western scientific and philosophical hegemony and arguably led to the birthing of the 'Occupy' movement

• 12 midday - 2pm Ukelele jamming! at TCU at St Paul's

• 1pm - 3pm - Family-friendly Christmas Eve cabaret with Murray Lachlan Young (poet, playwright, satirist) and other special guests. In Tent City University at St Paul's

• 3-4pm - Making “Occupy” the mayor of London at Bank of Ideas. Talks about the importance of challenging the establishment by using it’s own corrupt system

• 7pm - General Assembly at St Paul's looking at political issues of the day. All welcome to get involved and find out more about Occupy's discussion and decision making process where people vote on policies rather than people.

Sunday 25 December

• 10am onwards - Clowning and Physical Theatre. Followed by feasting and fun at Finsbury Square

• 12 midday onwards - Potluck Christmas Banquet, Secret Santa gifts, festive frisbee and other frolics at St Paul's. All are invited to bring food, games, decorations and instruments. Help us to create the kind of Christmas you've always dreamed of - a celebration based around community, not consumerism

• From 12 Midday - Christmas at the Bank of Ideas - The publicly repossessed Bank invites people to create the true spirit of the 'Big Society' and to exorcise the ghost of Coalition Past. There will be carol singing and traditional parlour games, that don't cost a bean. Bank of Ideas will be cooking up a storm, showing Christmas films and running workshops

• 12 Midday - 1pm - Megaphone Diplomacy: Youtube as the frontline in the coming insurrection at Bank of Ideas. Hear how in this digital age, the frontline is no longer just out on the street but out there in cyber space. As public space becomes an oppressed space, cyber space becomes the frontline in the war against the elites

• 7pm - General Assembly at St Paul's looking at political issues of the day. All welcome to get involved and find out more about Occupy's discussion and decision making process where people vote on policies rather than people.

Monday 26 December

• Events TBC

Tuesday 27 December

• 6-8pm - Tent City University's Free University courses initiative – Economic Literacy: Introducing Fundamentals of Economics with Bill Kherbeck at Bank of Ideas. This course signifies the beginning of Tent City University's new initiative to providing free university courses. See Bank of Ideas website for more details.

Wednesday 28 December

• 6-7pm - Emotional well being support group at Finsbury Square

• 6-8pm - Tent City University's Free University courses initiative – Contemporary Issues in International Relations: Unmanned Warfare with Bill Kherbeck at Bank of Ideas. First session of a weekly course offering background (history, context, key figures/considerations) in contemporary international issues and conflicts. The focus will be on under reported conflicts and issues. These include:

• Week 1: Unmanned Warfare: Examining the use of drones in international conflict

• Week 2: Somalia: Examining the recent history of Somalia

• Week 3: Western Sahara: Examining the conflict in Western Sahara

• Week 4: West Papua: Examining the various conflicting claims and interests in West Papua conflict

• Week 5: Democratic Republic of Congo: Examining critical economic and political features of life in the DRC

• Week 6: Yemen: Examining the recent history of Yemen

• Week 7: Honduras: Examining events in the recent history of Honduras, particularly post Micheletti coup

• Week 8: Iraq/Afghanistan: Considering under reported features of recent conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan

• 7pm onwards - Music and politics General Assembly at St Paul's. Expect surprise artists and live music artists. All welcome to get involved and find out more about Occupy's discussion and decision making process where people vote on policies rather than people.

Thursday 29 December

• 2-4pm Yogo Flow at Bank of Ideas - A fun and flowing yoga class designed for the beginner in mind to get the body moving with a powerful meditation called yoga nidra

• 4-6pm Meditation at Bank of Ideas - Introduction to the basics of the Sahaja Yoga meditation technique; followed by a collective guided meditation.

Friday 30 December

• 9-10am - The sequela of a lucent political aphelion with Paul Goldstein at Bank of Ideas. It can be argued that the global insurrection known as Occupy is a reification of Belltanto’s idea of the “glass lalique” (the ‘social window’). In this talk, Paul Goldstein will spell out the this connection as well as highlighting the important role Occupy London now plays in our political theatre, ordinary people doing the extraordinary, what once was merely ‘protest’ has now become a force majeure, a daily reminder of the few who have given up so much to spell out the “numbers on the glass” even at the risk of profligating the sequela of this new political aphelion

• 6pm - Charles Dicken's A Christmas Carol on the steps of St Paul's, especially adapted for Occupy London by the esteemed playwright Timberlake Wertenbaker. This very special event will bring together acclaimed actors for a rehearsed reading of the story of the sour and stingy Ebenezer Scrooge with visits from the Ghosts of Christmas Past, Present, and Yet to Come

• 7pm - General Assembly at St Paul's looking at political issues of the day. All welcome to get involved and find out more about Occupy's discussion and decision making process where people vote on policies rather than people.

Saturday 31 December

• 10pm - 3am - Inner Change Outer Change Meditation at the Bank of Ideas. This event invites every Occupy Movement across the world to welcome the new year in meditation. Across the world Occupy Movements will start a metta based meditation (sending love from the heart) for 1 minute for each month of the new year and 12 representing 2012. Others across the country and in other countries are also invited to host their own ICOC sit at home if they are unable to make it to a city where there is an occupy sit

• 11am - Midday - The sequela of a lucent political aphelion with Paul Goldstein at Bank of Ideas

• Timing TBC - New Year's Eve Occupy London Concert at St Paul's with special guests to be announced. Come join us!