Human Rights inconvenient?

[kaosmark2]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15140742

Anyone care to defend Theresa May and Cameron? I can't say that them finding it 'difficult to work with' convinces me that it's worth scrapping in favour of a UK one they get to write and rewrite.

[grumpyhack]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-15140742

Anyone care to defend Theresa May and Cameron?

[eFestivals]

I understand the reason and sentiments around making some changes to the laws (mainly clarifying the pretty generic statements in the act)... Some of the abuses have been staggering... But this has to be done at the EU level and not at the UK level to ensure it is done correctly, fairy and with compassion.

which ones?

I'm not aware of any abuses, merely rulings based on the Human Rights Act which say that humans have human rights.

[kaosmark2]

I think you have already set out your stall and hence reply is fruitless...

[eFestivals]

I think you have already set out your stall and hence reply is fruitless...

What I might think isn't any part of your view.

You've said 'abuses', so I'm asking you what you believe are abuses.

But do please try and reconcile your view that there's been abuses with your own words of "this has to be done at the EU level and not at the UK level to ensure it is done correctly, fairy and with compassion".

So what abuses have there been which have not been done correctly, fairly (I presume you mean 'fairly') and with compassion?

You believe there's been some, so which ones?

[5co77ie]

Well, they're going to have to do something so the Home Office can justify its apparent torture of prisoners in Libya, and potentially closer to home, and 28 days surely isn't long enough for a good torture?

...and it's off the back of this story I reckon:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/oct/03/iraqi-citizen-wins-legal-hooding

Regulations permitting the hooding of detainees by intelligence officers during interrogation are unlawful and should be rewritten, the high court has ruled.

But a second, more fundamental, challenge to the policy issued to British officers attempting to obtain information from prisoners held by countries known to use torture was rejected by the court.

[eFestivals]

I haven't the time to look exact cases...

There are a number of cases along the lines of a asylum seeker commits a crime and would normally be deported but due to his "human rights" we can't because he has a family etc... It gets right on peoples tits...

Its totally subjective if you think that the "right to family" includes going this far... I think its a stretch at best...

So what you said about the EU rules being right for such things is bollocks you posted but don't actually believe?

[5co77ie]

I haven't the time to look exact cases...

There are a number of cases along the lines of a asylum seeker commits a crime and would normally be deported but due to his "human rights" we can't because he has a family etc... It gets right on peoples tits...

Its totally subjective if you think that the "right to family" includes going this far... I think its a stretch at best...

[eFestivals]

Well they are bollocks...

and the words you post too, as you've just proven.

Look at how shit and open to abuse and interpretation current human rights laws are...

They are not being abused.

And they're not being wrongly interpreted - except by people who want the right to abuse the human rights of others of course.

[kaosmark2]

I haven't the time to look exact cases...

There are a number of cases along the lines of a asylum seeker commits a crime and would normally be deported but due to his "human rights" we can't because he has a family etc... It gets right on peoples tits...

Its totally subjective if you think that the "right to family" includes going this far... I think its a stretch at best...

[eFestivals]

But I don't see why we should tolerate this man...

because as a human he's got no less right to his family as you have? Just a thought, like.

If you commit manslaughter you don't get deported, so why should he?

We are all citizens of the world. That means that any right that you have should be available to all. If things don't work that way, then we have people who think themselves better than others only by the accident of their birth.

Which is of course far more ridiculous than this guy not having been deported.

[5co77ie]

Much like the Tories - Shell certainly don't like Human Rights:

http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/news/content/view/full/110284

Anglo-Dutch oil giant Shell fuelled human rights abuses in the Niger Delta by paying huge sums to armed militias, campaigners claimed yesterday.

Campaign group Platform, in conjunction with other NGOs including Friends of the Earth, said it had evidence that Shell had made routine payments to armed militants, exacerbating conflicts.

In one case, campaigners alleged such a payment was made to a militia responsible for the destruction of the town of Rumuekpe, where it is estimated that at least 60 people were killed.

It is further claimed that Shell continued to rely on Nigerian government forces which have perpetrated systematic human rights abuses against local residents, including unlawful killings, torture and cruel, inhumane and degrading treatment.

Platform said that it had heard testimony and seen contracts which implicated Shell in regularly assisting armed militants with lucrative payments.

Shell was alleged to have transferred over $159,000 (£102,000) in 2010 to a group "credibly linked" to militia violence.

The Nigerian government was also condemned for failing to protect the rights of its citizens and the NGOs urged President Goodluck Jonathan to find political solutions to the Delta crisis instead of military responses.

[eFestivals]

I think you know most my answers to that pile of poop so will just fast forward to us disagreeing and leaving it...

let me guess.....

1. you do think that this guy should have less right to his family than you have.

2. you think that the accident of your birth gives you rights in the world that others shouldn't have.

3. you do think yourself better than any immigrant.

Am I right?

[pehaw]

because as a human he's got no less right to his family as you have? Just a thought, like.

If you commit manslaughter you don't get deported, so why should he?

We are all citizens of the world. That means that any right that you have should be available to all. If things don't work that way, then we have people who think themselves better than others only by the accident of their birth.

Which is of course far more ridiculous than this guy not having been deported.

[eFestivals]

The real issue is that his behaviour and the consequences of his actions merit a far longer prison term - maybe 15-20 years or so imho.

that's a completely different issue, nothing to do with his human rights or the Human Rights Act.

The simple fact is with his sentence is that he got the same sentence as a British citizen would have got if they'd done the same thing - and that's a good thing. We are all equal before the law.

[eFestivals]

no,but nice try...

So why do you think you're deserving of more rights by default than other people? I'd love to know.

[eFestivals]

Neil, we all know you want to declare open season on the UK and let everyone just roll up and live here... and you also know I don't agree with that idea... so from that stand point you can answer most my replies above for me...

Not interested into being baited into the same old boring argument with you...

I'm not trying to bait you, I'm trying to elicit an answer. Rather than have you run away from giving an answer as you did when we got to the heart of your issue with travellers - my presumption there with your lack of answer was that you knew you were being unfairly discriminating but didn't have the bottle to follow thru with posting that.

So you don't agree with people having the same rights as you have for yourself. Why? What is it about you that makes you special above other people?

[Purple Monkey]

Human rights will go right in the toilet soon enough. For everybody.

Carry on with your ignorance. Your children and grandchildren will pay.

Edited October 4, 2011 by Purple Monkey

[kaosmark2]

So you want me to find the link so you can sit over it highlighting the pros and cons ? or is your point it never happened and I am just making it up ?

I know its the Daily Mail blah blah but here you go... Knock yourself out...

Here is one example...

http://www.dailymail...ie-stay-UK.html

If his wife and family want to stay in the UK the I take no issue with that. Likewise, if they would like to go away with their farther, again, its their choice... But I don't see why we should tolerate this man...

[5co77ie]

Human rights will go right in the toilet soon enough. For everybody.

Carry on with your ignorance. Your children and grandchildren will pay.

[pehaw]

that's a completely different issue, nothing to do with his human rights or the Human Rights Act.

The simple fact is with his sentence is that he got the same sentence as a British citizen would have got if they'd done the same thing - and that's a good thing. We are all equal before the law.

[eFestivals]

Its about having worked to be build something in this country and not just giving it away without some sort of buy in...

I might be mistaken, but I'm of the belief that you've 'built' just the tiniest, immeasurable bit about this country, so there's really nothing of yours to be given away.

So what that's deservedly yours is being lost?

So someone is being treated like do shit in their own country so they come here and asked for help. They then show little respect for the laws. The why the fuck should we tolerate them after trying to help them ? Fuck em... Send em back... and lets focus on helping someone who wants to be helped...

Right, so your answer is to have them perhaps murdered, irregardless of the severity of the crime they might have committed.

That's nice of you. I wish all the civilised people in this country thought like you.

If there was somewhere who would take them I wouldn't say no to doing this with some of the scum who was born here...

yeah, it's a thought I have sometimes. Tho the difference with my thoughts is that it's a different type of scum I'm considering this for.

[eFestivals]

If a country wants to open their arms to the scum... Then send them off and away...

Too late matey.

You're already here, and you believe you've a right to stay.

[eFestivals]

Its not mine... its ours... and I pay my taxes to this fucked up system of government and rule so... yes... I do build it

"ours"? Care to show me the deeds of ownership for the land of any nation state? Nothing like that exists for this island, or any other piece of land.

And yes, you pay your taxes. But as the deficit gets to show, you take more than you contribute (me too). So you've built nothing at all, you've only taken - and taken from the very same people you're now saying should be persecuted for (in your opinion) contributing nothing.

Want to try again, and keep to the realities rather than how you'd prefer to pretend it is?

Edited October 4, 2011 by eFestivals

[kaosmark2]

Its not mine... its ours... and I pay my taxes to this fucked up system of government and rule so... yes... I do build it