Small vans

[eFestivals]

whatever... Fact is your wrong... It can be Far cheaper...

OK, OK ... in the absence of you knowing what's being bought to be able to say whether it could be far cheaper or not, I'll bow down to your powerful psychic skills and agree that you're right.

Despite you not being able to have the first idea until I'm able to tell what's being bought. Cos that's how clever you are.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

That could be circumvented if he was to sign with a guaranteed rent scheme. As part of that he would have to sign A sublet contract and then the agent becomes the landlord. Then it would be the agents responsibility to provide everything if they wanted it to let it as a HMO.

[mikeb]

How *exactly* are you arriving at £26k? Can you lay out the calcs you've used?

Edited November 16, 2011 by mikeb

[eFestivals]

You might have all manner of issues associated with your buy but if its a standard sale on a reasonable house I would think your fees are high...

as ever, you're short of the facts and talking ignorant bollocks.

Solicitors fees are around £450 to £500 - you're right. That charge tho is simply for them handling the paperwork and contracts. If that was all there was, that would be it. But it's not.

Add the VAT to that - that's another ton.

And then there's SDLT, another £50. Plus another tenner in VAT.

Then there's the land registry fees, which vary dependent on the price of the property. There's £100-£300 here for the more normal value sales (it's dependant on purchase price).

Then there's the various searches that are required for just about any purchase. Dependent where you live - say a coal mining area - there's extra searches demanded by the company giving the mortgage.

Then there's the conveyancing (which is something extra to all the above), which costs around £100. Plus the VAT.

You could just about get that lot for under a grand, without the mining searches. Add them on top and it's over a grand (dependant on the house price, which effects the LRF cost).

If a person did all these things for themselves without using a solicitor (for sales up to around the UK average property prices), they'd end up writing over £500 in cheques to third parties (councils, Land Registry, etc) which can't be removed from the equation by any method .... which gets to show that the quotes of £500 that can be found are in cloud cuckoo land, and it'll actually cost far far more.

You can google and check these facts, and get to find out just how wrong you are. Just for a change like.

Edited November 28, 2011 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

Using your inflated numbers which need not be the case.... and you missed out the HIP...

£600 - Legals

£50 - SDT

£100 - Land Registry

£120 - conveyancing

£300 - HIP

£30 - Search Mining

Total £1200

Not seeing this £1500 - £2000 you stated as minimum...

And I know for a cast iron fact you can get the legals / conveyancing cheaper by about £200-£300 at least...

So I will retract what I said earlier... You can't get it quite as cheap as the numbers have gone up a bit since I was buying but they are still not as high as your claims...

I keep telling you that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, and you keep proving it time and time again.

There is no HIP.

I didn't say anything about £1500-£2000 as a minimum for legal fees. I said legal fees of around a grand (with other costs of around a grand that can be saved ... tho by paying a higher interest rate on the mortgage, and so cost more long-term). And you've just proven that I'm right with what you've listed (even after the HIP fee is removed).

Nearly every purchase that'll happen in this country nowadays will get a LR fee of £200 at minimum, not the £100 you've used.

I could "save" about £200 on what I've been quoted for "all in". But it wouldn't really be that saving, because the "all in" price is never actually the all in price. The cheaper quotes make up the difference with the extras that aren't in their 'all in' price. It's the standard con with "all in" pricing.

Edited November 29, 2011 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

Sorry I am thinking about selling a house... There is a HIP but it will be provided to the buyer. So if you are a first time buyer it won't come into it.

HIPs have been abolished.

Which you'd know if you knew anything about this subject

We was talking about what nightcrawler13 can expect to pay out so the £100 is right as he said his house is worth less than £100k...

right would be £80.

Which you'd know if you knew anything about this subject.

Neil, you are simply wrong

I suggest you look just above and reconsider these words.

--------------

For my own still-to-be-completed purchase the quotes I got from solicitors claiming to give "all in" prices ranged from £780 and went up to about £1500. I'm paying about £1k. The cheaper ones will push up the price beyond what I'm paying with the charges they'll make for extras.

You should note that the lowest quote of £780 is closer to the £1k I said than the less than £500 you said. But as I say, significantly more than that quoted £780 will be the final cost, via extras.

And yes, I know that we were talking in relation to nightcrawler, but his lower purchase price wasn't of relevance to the discussion, because until I told you yesterday/today you didn't even know of the Land Registry fee which varies dependant on purchase price. To be specific, by exactly £120 - which still keeps the real cost of things much nearer to my £1k than your < £500.

I said the difference between your wrong view and the price I'd given was that you didn't know what I was paying for at that price. Given that's been proven,.....

Neil, you are simply wrong

I suggest you look just above and reconsider these words.

[eFestivals]

No amount of wiggle on this makes you right.. Enjoy being ripped off

I gave a general grand. You called me out on it, said I was being ripped off. I've shown I'm not being ripped off, that you don't know what you're talking about, and that it's only in fantasy land that I can get the legals of my purchase done for the amount you said I should pay at maximum.

I've got plenty to enjoy, but none of it is about being ripped off.

[bunique]

I agree with Neil re:the associated costs of moving. We're first time buyers buying a 1930s 3 bed semi for 131 with a 10% deposit. Our mortgage is with Abbey too and came with a 495 arrangement fee which was preferable to the higher rates on other mortgages. We then paid 275 for homebuyers survey - optional of course but depending on the property, a worthwhile investment - ours has highlighted blocked drains and an issue with one of the chimneys, for example. As for conveyancing, the absolute cheapest quote I had was 785 (including search fees) and that's because I name checked another client who'd recommended them to me. Several quotes were double that. Don't think we've paid anything else out yet but as the place needs total rewiring and lord knows what else, we'll be skint for a good while yet!

[bunique]

Quite a few of the mortgages we looked at had arrangement fees of £999 too, in some cases even more.

[eFestivals]

£785 + £275 for the more expensive and not required survey only comes out at £1060... Of course the arrangement was an option... Still WELL short of the £1.5k minimum claimed by Neil... So agree but you are agreeing with his wiggle and not his original claim...

With maths as utterly crap as yours, you'll always add things up so I'm wrong. Or alternatively, you're lying to make yourself right. It's fine trait, one you should be proud of.

£785 in legal fees.

£495 in mortgage fees ... and then the shocks to come for Bunique (as it was for me) is an extra mortgage charge of £225, and an extra mortgage conveyancing fee of £125 (those numbers are right to within a few pounds). That's a mortgage from one of the biggest lenders currently, and a reputable company. Those fees are worth paying because the alternatives are much more expensive.

You said that anyone paying over £500 in legal fees to a solicitor was being ripped off. I've pointed out that even if I were to do everything myself without clocking up a single fee with a solicitor there's unavoidable costs that total over £500.

You might be able to laugh at the difference between what I said and what you want to believe as being the reality (tho you're lying to yourself by doing that, because the numbers I'm quoting and bunique is quoting are REAL realities) but you should also be laughing at yourself for quoting numbers no less accurate than you want to think my quoted numbers are.

I said "you can't say whether I'm being ripped off until you know what I'm paying for". And that's the fact of things: you didn't have the first idea of what is required to be paid for, as you've proven beyond all doubt.

[eFestivals]

We are talking about the minimum required... You incorrectly said it was £1.5k - £2k... Even your own numbers show this to be false...

I said the costs for everything are in the region of £1.5k-£2k.

If you think the numbers I've given you aren't in that range that I suggest you return to school and start basic addition with the 5 year olds.

The issue you're seeing is your poor ability with adding up and nothingh else.

£1k - legal fees.

£500 - mortgage fee.

£350 - 'hidden' mortgage costs.

£200 - legal stuff 'extras' (in my case, and in an awful lot of other cases too - tho it's situation dependent).

You yourself admit that the arrangement fees etc can be added to the mortgage instead of being paid up front.

anyone going that route is a dick, who doesn't understand money.

But if you want to think that paying an extra £20k for a house to save £500 is a good deal, then go ahead.

(it's an extra £20k via the extra interest paid thru getting a much worse mortgage to avoid paying that £500).

Edited November 30, 2011 by eFestivals

[bunique]

Our mortgage arrangement fee (495) was required upfront - we had no option to add it on to the mortgage. The 225 we aren't paying upfront as it's not affected by us paying at the end - ie. won't increase amount paid through interest. We are ftb though may be different incentives for us.

Re: survey not being necessary - it's a 1930s house with the original wiring, plumbing, etc. Bar the fact it's had double glazing, it's as was when it was built pretty much. The survey has thrown up a drainage issue that we wouldn't have known about, plus roof and chimney stack problems that we, as civil servants, wouldn't have spotted even if they slapped us in the face. Oh, and asbestos in the garage and shed! Obv if night crawler is buying a new build then it's not really an issue but for us it's been a pretty vital part of the puzzle.

I honestly cannot see how, unless you are a legal eagle and qualified surveyor yourself, you can get away with paying anything less than about 1500 to complete a sale. Sorry oaf

[eFestivals]

Going to leave it here now. You will NEVER admit you are wrong about anything. But doesn't change the fact you are very wrong.

I've proven *ALL* you've said as wrong.

1. It is not possible to do the legals for the £500 you said was the most that anyone should pay for a solicitor to do these parts.

2. You said I was being ripped off. I've proven that I'm not being ripped off.

3. you claimed to know everything about what the costs involved with the legals are. You've proven with your own words that you don't have a clue.

Meanwhile, you've proven nothing of what I've said as wrong. I simply stated what I was paying and why I'm paying what I'm paying.

But hey, try and do your fantasy house purchase for the £500 you say, and prove me wrong.

[eFestivals]

There are mortgages out there which allow you to add the arrangement fee to the mortgage and not pay up front. Fact. So hey ho...

It's still a part of the costs of buying a property tho - which is what it was a comment against.

And the mortgages currently available which do allow that have a higher interest rate, so the buyer ends up paying many thousands of pounds extra for the property in mortgage interest than they would otherwise do.

[eFestivals]

Already conceded the real number is around £800-900 these days while showing you was still wrong to claim it couldn't be less than £1.5k which has been proven cast iron wrong. Which was my main point all along.

The difference between what you say and what I say is the difference between "in theory" and "in practice".

A very low proportion of people buying a house today would pay fees as low are you believe they would.

[eFestivals]

Rubbish... Using the higher numbers provided by you show that to be false...

What makes the big difference using your thinking is if you add the arrangement fees etc to the mortgage or not. Which is a choice totally down to a persons circumstances / preference.

Your just arguing for the sake of it now.

Yeah, cos everyone just loves to choose to pay far more for their house purchase thru higher interest rates than they need to.

The unavoidable costs of my purchase on the legal side of things is £633.70 - that's before the solicitor gets involved in anything. That's what the costs would be if I did everything on the legal side myself, with zero involvement of a solicitor.

If my purchase was for the value properly nightwhatsit is considering, those costs would be £513.70.

So your belief that it can all be done for £450 by a solicitor is laughable.

Me pointing out that your own view is laughable is me arguing for the sake of it. Yeah, right.

[eFestivals]

£684.64 + £374 = £1058

Real world example without putting in any effort than selecting the first to quotes returned.

A real world example wouldn't have you assuming that everything is covered within the quotes you've found, because everything very rarely is in the real world.

But guess what? Even that not-real-world number you've come up with is nearer my £1.5k-£2k than it is to your £450-£500.

[eFestivals]

It remains a fact that it isn't £1.5k minimum as I pointed out...

OK, OK, I agree .... you're right, if you're also so so stupid as to make a purchase that'll cost you thousands of pounds - and perhaps tens of thousands of pounds - more than you could pay.

Anyone who took your advice of getting what you think is the best deal is getting themselves the worst deal. Because that's the real-world facts of the matter.

There's a reason why the two people posting here who are currently buying are telling you're simply wrong, just as there's a reason why we've both gone for the same mortgage company and a mortgage company that adds an extra £500 to the up-front buying costs, and that reason isn't anything to do with you talking anything of any worth or sense.

Anyone with one more brain cell than you (so that's two or more) can work out from both our words who is posting useful information about the costs of buying in the real world and who isn't.

If you want to push your financially inept way to buy as the best deal, then I'm happy for you to do that because no one is as stupid are you are and would follow thru and actually do it.

[eFestivals]

Finally... You agree on the facts

I agree on the fact that you've got a brain the size of a pea, yup.

Can anyone ion the real world get the fees you've given? Nope. Try it for yourself and find out how wrong you are.

I am posting facts (admittedly I had to change the amount a bit) about the minimum cost of obtaining a mortgage... You are posting bollocks and are still trying to suggest they are true ?

I'm posting facts about a real mortgage and the real current costs of buying, and not your fantasy.

So my advice is good... and your spin is bollocks designed only to serve your own position....

Your advice is good for anyone as thick as you, yes.

My "spin bollocks" from (you say) "a man down the pub" are real world facts about a real purchase, and not the fantasy of a moron who has shown through-out this discussion that he hasn't known what he's talking about.... whereas I've always stated that the amounts I've quoted are about the amounts that real people pay for real purchases.

[lost]

Just pulled out the statement from the solictors for what I paid last year.. seems low but I can't find anything else I paid for

Our Professional Charges £275.00

VAT on Our Professional Charges £48.13

Telegraphic Transfer Fee £41.13

Electronic Identification Verification £14.

Search Package £148.87

HMLC Search £4.00

HMLR Search £4.00

Land Registration Fee £200.00

Builder’s Documentation Fee £117.50

Mortgage fee £99 (that was with a 60% deposit with HSBC)

Edited December 1, 2011 by lost

[bunique]

Just pulled out the statement from the solictors for what I paid last year.. seems low but I can't find anything else I paid for

Our Professional Charges £275.00

VAT on Our Professional Charges £48.13

Telegraphic Transfer Fee £41.13

Electronic Identification Verification £14.

Search Package £148.87

HMLC Search £4.00

HMLR Search £4.00

Land Registration Fee £200.00

Builder’s Documentation Fee £117.50

Mortgage fee £99 (that was with a 60% deposit with HSBC)

[lost]

Did you have a valuation survey? (so jealous of the 60% deposit!!)

[eFestivals]

So that is a total of: £1111.63

Clearly someone else talking shit Neil ?

Or alternatively, someone with a 60% deposit.

The deals get much better the more a person can put down. Given that the majority of people here are young, and this tangent came about via someone wanting to buy who (as far as I'm aware) doesn't yet even have the 5% deposit he was talking about for his own purchase, the amount of deposit is of huge relevance.

You've done nothing different here with what you've done all the way thru - assumed that a perfect scenario is applicable to everyone, when it's applicable to very few people in the real world (and even fewer in 'efestivals world' where people are generally young).

You gave a ball park figure, that has been shown beyond all doubt to be impossible. I've given a ball park figure which is the reality for many buyers (as proven by real buyers that have posted here).

But I'm wrong and you're not.

[eFestivals]

You REALLY have no idea... The amount of deposit you can put down has little bearing on the minimum costs of obtaining a mortgage. You might be able to get a better arrangement fee but consider this can in the majority of cases be added to the mortgage and not paid up front its a none issue.

pmsl.

You say I have no idea.

Yet only one of us - and it isn't you - has been thru the mortgage process in the last month,

And only one of us - and it isn't you - has been thru the mortgage process since the credit crunch has hit and which has massively changed how mortgages are currently operating.

And only one of us - and it isn't you - has checked out what mortgages are currently available for a range of purchase prices with a range of deposit amounts fore each of those purchase prices, and what charges they each incur - up-front, hidden, added-to-mortgage, and with different interest rates.

And only one of us - and it isn't you - has been thru the mortgage process since laws applicable to house buying have changed.

And only one of us - and it isn't you - has been thru the mortgage process since the inescapable fees of buying have changed to their current levels.

Since you made your initial (and since proven as impossible) comment on the fees people pay, you've shown your complete ignorance of the whole process in many different ways.

The guy who has proven that he has no idea says that I have no idea.

[eFestivals]

You have been shown to be wrong... My work here is done...

You really are fucking ridiculous.

What you have said has been proven as definitively wrong - damnright impossible in fact.

The amount I've given can't be wrong, because they are actual real world costs and not some impossible invention from your empty head.

The amount I'm paying could - possibly - be beaten (something I've never disputed). But relying on perfect-scenario info as you have for what is never a perfect situation for anyone in the real world as 'proof' for anything is ridiculous. The 'all in' quotes that you've found and used for the bollocks you've put forwards apply to almost no one in the real world.