The Dirty Independence Question

[Comfy Bean]

Vote hatred to make the world a nice place.

I see we are still in disagreement with the whole left / right SNP thing. Just for fun, why don`t we look at it a different way. Are we all agreed that the Tories are a right wing party ? How many people in Scotland do we think will vote for them ? Will they get 1 or maybe 2 seats ? We will find out next year I suppose. Going by the latest polls, the SNP are looking at massive gains but the Tories are not. Why would this be.......

Just for fun remember....apply the same thinking to the number of seats UKIP will get up here.

If Scotland had voted YES does anyone honestly think that Scotland would have ever voted in a Tory Government in our lifetime ?

Anywayz, talking about hatred and making Scotland a better place, is Jim Murphy ( did he vote on the bedroom tax !!! ) the man to lead the Scottish Labour Party ? After the accusations of being a London branch office ( by their leader ) should they not have went with an MSP for starters ?

He was on tv earlier going on about scrapping the football bigotry law that the Scottish Govt brought in. Living in the West of Scotland I am amazed and saddened to hear this. He is playing a dangerous game and pandering to the bigots chasing votes.

Turns out he is also a founder member of The Henry Jackson Society who hold some interesting views on torture, is pro-nuke and voted in favour of the Iraq war not to mention being a "friend of Israel ".

He doesn`t seem big on immigration which seems a bit unfair as he emigrated ( with his family ) to South Africa back in the day but in fairness he does go jogging past photographers in a Scotland football top and he is always swigging from a can of Irn Bru.

A Commons motion signed by Tony Benn and Dennis Skinner ( amongst others ) described Murphy as being " intolerant and dictatorial ".

Fist we were told to vote NO as we are better together with Dave and the corrupt Westminster Parties and now we should be getting behind this guy

That this House condemns the intolerant and dictatorial behaviour of the President of the National Union of Students, Mr Jim Murphy, who has unconstitutionally suspended NUS Vice President, Clive Lewis, because he took part, in a personal capacity, in an open debate at Queen Mary and Westfield College on the issues raised by theCampaign for Free Education; further notes that along with President Elect, Douglas Trainer, both men have warned NUS Executive member, Rose Woods, that if she attends the Scottish launch of the Campaign for Free Education she too will be suspended from the NUS Executive; reminds Mr Murphy and Mr Trainer that freedom of speech is a right in the United Kingdom, that they have no power to overturn the results of elections that went against their preferred candidates and that, whilst these methods are a common practice in dictatorships around the world, they are not acceptable behaviour from someone such as Mr Murphy who is putting himself forward as suitable for election to the House of Commons.

[LJS]

I realise that it all comes back to Salmond for you. Fair enough.

In my view, the " Indy plans " would have been negotiated by " Team Scotland " ( shite name I know ) that would have included Scottish MP`s from across the board. I dare say that Dave and the boys would also have had a major say on the plan and the timetable. I agree that Salmond would have played a major role but you don`t honestly think one man would have it all his own way ?..............or do you ?

You might also want to have a re-think on your earlier comments on the SNP not voting on the Bedroom Tax. One missed a plane and 3 didn`t vote.

Not sure why you continually try and point score with the SNP`s record on the Bedroom Tax. It`s been spelled out to you on here often enough

Hey comfy ---hope you are well.

There is a somewhat bizarre notion put about that those in favour of independence shoudl have voted "no" because the independence plans weren't quite right even although that might well have meant 20 or 30 years until we got another chance .. & imagine if that wasn't quite right.

As you quite rightly point out, there is no way Eck could have railroaded through his version of independence without involvement support & consent from a broad range of people from across & outwith the political spectrum. This will be dismissed as idealistic nonsense from Neil & others who appear to view Eck as a virtual dictator.

[kaosmark2]

Simply not true. " The SNP will never put the Tories into Government "

http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/299706-nicola-sturgeon-the-snp-will-never-put-the-tories-into-government/

They'd happily prop up Tory policies though. Did you see the link?

[kaosmark2]

There is a somewhat bizarre notion put about that those in favour of independence shoudl have voted "no" because the independence plans weren't quite right even although that might well have meant 20 or 30 years until we got another chance .. & imagine if that wasn't quite right.

I'm in favour of electoral reform. I think most of us here are. Would you vote for a new system where we elected a single person to be an absolute dictator and votes in Essex counted double?

To say the independence plans "weren't quite right" is a gross understatement. They were atrocious.

[Comfy Bean]

Whether the SNP would be considered as a coalition partner is certainly unlikely - but what about some looser arrangement - where they agree to support a number of core pieces of legislation - why would that be unthinkable?

Of course. the logical, common sense coalition would be between Labour & the Tories as they are the two parties closest in policies & philosphy

I agree with your thinking on the top bit around a " looser arrangement ". The 2nd bit, while unlikely.........would anyone be that surprised. I`m joking ( I think ).

Are we all having a sweep on how many seats the SNP will win next year. Now on 6 of 59 and some high numbers being predicted. I think they will atleast treble what they have now but would be amazed if they get the 40 odd being talked about. Murphy is bound to get some momentum you would think but I`m assuming he cannot take part in the Scottish FM question time thing ? Would be interesting to see him and NS " debating ". I forgot to add his expenses " errors " in my earlier post. Fortunately for him, the Record and the rest of the Scottish press won`t want to do a lot of digging on him. Probably bring up his near death experience with the egg thing once or twice though

[LJS]

I'm in favour of electoral reform. I think most of us here are. Would you vote for a new system where we elected a single person to be an absolute dictator and votes in Essex counted double?

To say the independence plans "weren't quite right" is a gross understatement. They were atrocious.

You'll need to help me Kaos, I genuinely have no idea what you are on about in that Essex bit.

& we were only voting for independence - we would then vote for governments to decide how we ran the country - there is absolutely no point in reopening the long debate we had on the Scottish government/SNP's proposals - but even if they were "atrocious" they were still only proposals .. & even if they were implemented in their entirety, democracy means we could have kicked out the government who implemented these "atrocious" proposals.

Of course, nothing "atrocious" has ever come from Westminster #trident #iraq # duckhouses #childabuse

[Comfy Bean]

They'd happily prop up Tory policies though. Did you see the link?

I did mate. I see what this guy who has been bombed out by the SNP is saying. In the same article ( right at the bottom ) there is one sentence from an " SNP Spokeswoman ". I`d be inclined to go with that and also the direct quotes from NS in the article I posted in response.

I appreciate your no SNP fan but for me they are being quite clear / fair on where they will stand. NO deal with Tories and any deal with Labour is dependent on scrapping Trident and austerity. NS has said all this a number of times since she took over. I picked a link to a New Statesmen article as I`m guessing they are not big on Scottish Indy ?

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/11/nicola-sturgeon-sets-out-her-conditions-snp-deal-labour

[kaosmark2]

You'll need to help me Kaos, I genuinely have no idea what you are on about in that Essex bit.

& we were only voting for independence - we would then vote for governments to decide how we ran the country - there is absolutely no point in reopening the long debate we had on the Scottish government/SNP's proposals - but even if they were "atrocious" they were still only proposals .. & even if they were implemented in their entirety, democracy means we could have kicked out the government who implemented these "atrocious" proposals.

Of course, nothing "atrocious" has ever come from Westminster #trident #iraq # duckhouses #childabuse

I was coming up with an exaggeratedly unfavourable electoral reform. Essex is of course a Tory heartland that will only not end up blue if they decide to go racist instead.

Define "independence". That's the problem. The definition of independence would have been determined by Salmond in this case.

[kaosmark2]

I did mate. I see what this guy who has been bombed out by the SNP is saying. In the same article ( right at the bottom ) there is one sentence from an " SNP Spokeswoman ". I`d be inclined to go with that and also the direct quotes from NS in the article I posted in response.

I appreciate your no SNP fan but for me they are being quite clear / fair on where they will stand. NO deal with Tories and any deal with Labour is dependent on scrapping Trident and austerity. NS has said all this a number of times since she took over. I picked a link to a New Statesmen article as I`m guessing they are not big on Scottish Indy ?

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/11/nicola-sturgeon-sets-out-her-conditions-snp-deal-labour

Well holding a party to ransom over Scotland getting a better deal is a surefire way to stop a deal with labour either. Regardless, I have less issue with anything Sturgeon has said that everything Salmond did.

[LJS]

1. so on this issue, Labour have a policy that is definitely to the left of the SNP.

No. as i clearly explained (with links, unlike your assertions from thin air) the SNP voted against the scrapping of the 50p rate & have said they would support a move to impose it again. you failed to address my point in any way at all I can only think you are comparing the Indy white paper with labours UK GE proposals which is a pretty bizarre comparison to make.

2. care to tell me how many poor peopole are shareholders? PMSL. On this issue, Labour have a policy that is definitely to the left of the SNP.

Again you are comparing a proposal in a white paper for an independent Scotland with a UK GE position. This is completely & totally irrelevant. As you would be aware if you listened to anything other than the voices in your head, I was never a big fan of the corpy tax cut proposal, but as I pointed out, and you failed to address, corpy tax was cut under Big Gordy so by (your) definition, Labour gave money to the rich. you may choose to ignore the Labour Party's record. other choices are available - again a point you failed totally to address

3. it might be stating the obvious, but the effects are obvious too - that you've somehow missed. Effects that put the SNP to the right of Labour.

So all independence movements are right wing. Yeah right (or left)

4. Oh, so there's a free pass if you're nasty just once? PMSL. There's certainly a free pass for the SNP, allowing them top be more right wing, but never criticised for it.

No, it's not a free pass. but then was it ok for Labour to fail to support an SNP amendment to scrap the bedroom tax? - I have neither the energy, time or inclination to research labour's voting record but, I seem to remember a few skeleton's in the closet there. & again you failed to comment on my link about Miliband gagging Johan Lamont (apologies if that conjures up unpleasant images ) on the bedroom tax. You also had nothing to say about the fact that the SNP have actually acted to effectively abolish the bedroom tax in Scotland.

5. Miliband.... it's the right wingers and the corrupt - like the SNP - who court Murdoch.

6. they might have all fucked up, but the SNP fucked up worse than the tories (and much much worse than Labour) with regard to policies around banking regulation. You know, the SNP being to the right of Labour AND the tories.

So, writing a letter egging on Fred the Shred (because writing letters is the extent of your power over these matters) is worse than enabling & encouraging the spivs to bring the country to its knees - aye right!

Eck may well have been saved by having no power & I don't deny his judgement was flawed to say the least but i guess the Amount of due diligence required to write a letter is somewhat less than that required when deregulating banks.

I gave you a factual list of where the SNP are to the right of Labour, and you couldn't admit to a single one of them.

& I gave you detailed & factual replies which you simply ignored & just repeated your initial assertions. But that's what you do, Neil.

But you don't support the SNP and you don't hate Labour, yeah? PMSL.

You turned my critique of the state of the Scottish Labour Party into a competition between labour & the SNP. Foolishly (perhaps) I fell into your trap & instead of questioning why you were not directly addressing my points about SLAB, I addressed your criticisms of the SNP.

I have voted SNP (I have also voted Labour, Lib dem, Communist, independent, Scottish Socialist) but I don't think you will find anything from me trying ot persuade anyone to vote SNP. And for the umpteenth time, would anyone who hates labour have named his son Keir?

Keir Hardie is Labour's greatest pioneer and its greatest hero. Without him, the party would never have existed. Without him, Attlee, Bevan and Castle would never have become cabinet ministers. This extraordinary man rose from the pits of Ayrshire to change the world. He became the first Labour MP, the founder of the ILP, first leader of the Labour party, pioneer editor of the Labour Leader, and a giant in the socialist movement worldwide. Miraculously, he created a new party, as "an uprising of the working class".

Would Keir Hardie be accepted as a labour Party candidate today?

Edited December 29, 2014 by LJS

[Comfy Bean]

Well holding a party to ransom over Scotland getting a better deal is a surefire way to stop a deal with labour either. Regardless, I have less issue with anything Sturgeon has said that everything Salmond did.

But some would say that what the SNP want would also be good for folks South of the border. This from the BBC site today..........

Mr Hosie said the current Conservative-Lib Dem coalition had "not been squeamish" in pursuing policies, such as spending cuts and welfare changes, which he suggested were deeply unpopular in Scotland..

He dismissed suggestions that it was in the interest of the SNP to introduce policies in Scotland which "stirred up resentment" in England in order to try and drain support for the Union.

"This is politics," he added. "Obviously we have our policies and we want to see these put into practice, put into play because we think they are the best thing, not just for the people of Scotland but the whole of the UK.

"I keep hearing this argument that we do good things in Scotland on purpose to stir up resentment (in England). I happen to think free education is a good thing full stop and I would love to see it in England.

"We don't do good things in Scotland to stir up resentment... but because they are popular and necessary...I only wish there was a political party that represented the English people who took the same view."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30623652

[LJS]

I was coming up with an exaggeratedly unfavourable electoral reform. Essex is of course a Tory heartland that will only not end up blue if they decide to go racist instead.

Define "independence". That's the problem. The definition of independence would have been determined by Salmond in this case.

Oh right, well you can choose to believe that Eck wielded such overwhelming power that he & he alone would determine the shape of an independent Scotland. That presumes that rUk would have had no say. And that his promises to assemble a "team Scotland" including inviting Alistair Darling was all just a big pretence. It assumes that a vibrant & radical grassroots pro independence movement would just have sat by quietly while Eck did as he pleased.

You can believe all that if you wish. Neil clearly does. I can't prove you wrong. I can only tell you that, in my view,for the reasons given above, it just wouldn't have happened like that.

the truth is,... we will never know.

[kaosmark2]

Oh right, well you can choose to believe that Eck wielded such overwhelming power that he & he alone would determine the shape of an independent Scotland. That presumes that rUk would have had no say.

No, I believe he would have headed the negotiations for Scotland and made concessions in order to get exceptions that suited his agenda, not ones that would have benefitted Scotland or rUK.

[kaosmark2]

But some would say that what the SNP want would also be good for folks South of the border. This from the BBC site today..........

Mr Hosie said the current Conservative-Lib Dem coalition had "not been squeamish" in pursuing policies, such as spending cuts and welfare changes, which he suggested were deeply unpopular in Scotland..

He dismissed suggestions that it was in the interest of the SNP to introduce policies in Scotland which "stirred up resentment" in England in order to try and drain support for the Union.

"This is politics," he added. "Obviously we have our policies and we want to see these put into practice, put into play because we think they are the best thing, not just for the people of Scotland but the whole of the UK.

"I keep hearing this argument that we do good things in Scotland on purpose to stir up resentment (in England). I happen to think free education is a good thing full stop and I would love to see it in England.

"We don't do good things in Scotland to stir up resentment... but because they are popular and necessary...I only wish there was a political party that represented the English people who took the same view."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30623652

I think SOME of what the SNP want would be good for folks South of the border. I think some of what the Lib Dems want is good for folks North of the border.

The positions the SNP adopt on the political spectrum are mostly centrist or right-of-centre, with a few left-of-centre policies, but most of these policies are determined by populist opinion, and there's only a few where they're brave enough to say that they'll stand up for certain things. Similarly, the Lib Dems are prepared to stand up and say they believe in scrapping trident, greater involvement in the EU, and other such policies that aren't in line with public opinion but are things they feel make them stand out.

I don't think the SNP are a far-right nutjob party. I don't think they're anti-English in an equivalent way to the BNP/NF are racist. What I do think is that they are saying what people want to hear in a belief that they won't actually have to keep difficult promises, and that they are just as centre-right as the rest of British politics.

[eFestivals]

Simply not true. " The SNP will never put the Tories into Government "

And yet SNP supporters could well put the tories in govt by voting SNP and not Labour.

If that's what happens, those voters cannot disclaim responsibility for the consequences of their own chosen actions.

In a FPTP system, no vote for a winning candidate in one area is a vote in isolation from all other votes for winning candidates; all votes for winning candidates cause the make-up of the overall result.

The SNP can easily put the tories in govt. Anyone who says otherwise is selling you a self-serving lie.

[eFestivals]

I realise that it all comes back to Salmond for you. Fair enough.

No.

A winning indy vote all came back to Salmond. That's how Salmond set things up to be, so that he got *ALL* of the power over Scottish indy.

Is him being an irrelevance another of the things you "believe" contrary to all facts?

In my view, the " Indy plans " would have been negotiated by " Team Scotland " ( shite name I know ) that would have included Scottish MP`s from across the board.

and then approved within the Scottish Parliament where the SNP had an absolute majority.

Nothing that did not meet Salmond's approval could happen within the situation he'd deliberately created.

I dare say that Dave and the boys would also have had a major say on the plan and the timetable.

They'd made clear that Scotland would get everything to which it was entitled in law.

Salmond said he wouldn't accept anything less than *MORE* than he was entitled to in law.

It would have been interesting, watching iScotland realise that Salmond had spun them a line and they'd fallen for it hook line and sinker - and indy was a huge fuck-up as a result.

I agree that Salmond would have played a major role but you don`t honestly think one man would have it all his own way ?..............or do you ?

Care to show me a list of Alex's past compromises?

You might also want to have a re-think on your earlier comments on the SNP not voting on the Bedroom Tax. One missed a plane and 3 didn`t vote.

as I said, the SNP didn't vote against the Bedroom tax, and you've just confirmed that's true.

That's a perfect display of SNP tactics - to make Scottish people suffer as a way of creating divisions with England.

But hey, if you think that Scotland having less money than it might otherwise have is a good thing for Scotland, feel free to tell me how.

Not sure why you continually try and point score with the SNP`s record on the Bedroom Tax. It`s been spelled out to you on here often enough

That they didn't vote against it? Yep, that's spelling it out loud and clear.

Make Scots suffer to create divisions with England, to create the false impression that everything is the fault of the nasty English. It's what the SNP do, it's the only thing they do.

[eFestivals]

In contrast Labour failed to "concede powers" to Scotland in 1979

care to tell me how any govt can pass laws that don't have majority HoC support?

But hey, the re-writing of history by the SNP continues, to hide their own part in installing Thatcher over Scotland - who Scotland lapped up willing with a hugely increased tory vote!

Whether the SNP would be considered as a coalition partner is certainly unlikely

Yes-ers enjoy telling us English how the SNP don't vote on English laws.

Care to show me their changed policy on that before there's talk of any formal coalition?

So it's not "unlikely", it's "impossible" by the SNP's own choices.

Of course. the logical, common sense coalition would be between Labour & the Tories as they are the two parties closest in policies & philosphy

Not as close as the SNP and the tories.

There's a fact you won't like, but it's a fact all the same.

Recognition of that fact requires an ability to discuss policies. Care to have a discussion on policies, or ... oh look, a squirrel.

[eFestivals]

Why would this be.......

People like you won't discuss policies? People like you use what you "believe" instead of facts?

If Scotland had voted YES does anyone honestly think that Scotland would have ever voted in a Tory Government in our lifetime ?

What, a govt that would cut bank regulation and bend over backwards for the bankers (much more-so than Labour), and that is against higher taxes for the rich?

Scotland has already voted them in.

He was on tv earlier going on about scrapping the football bigotry law that the Scottish Govt brought in.

Really? Allowing alcohol sales is now the abolishon of the football bigotry laws?

Or have I missed something different he's said?

Or, perhaps, are you making it up?

Turns out he is also a founder member of The Henry Jackson Society who hold some interesting views on torture, is pro-nuke and voted in favour of the Iraq war not to mention being a "friend of Israel ".

But St Alex having secret meetings with Murdoch at Scottish taxpayers expense and then lying about it is just cuddly Uncle Alex doing the best for Scotland, yeah? PMSL.

If you're going to throw mud, perhaps use both hands?

I'm not fan of tory traits from all politicians, not just some of them. Giving tory thinking a free pass is giving tory thinking a free pass.

He doesn`t seem big on immigration

and neither is Scotland. Have you seen the polls?

Those polls show that Scotland has greater anti-immigrant feeling than England on a proportional basis.

Fist we were told to vote NO as we are better together with Dave and the corrupt Westminster Parties and now we should be getting behind this guy

you do love your wilful ignorance, don't cha?

[eFestivals]

There is a somewhat bizarre notion put about that those in favour of independence shoudl have voted "no" because the independence plans weren't quite right even although that might well have meant 20 or 30 years until we got another chance .. & imagine if that wasn't quite right.

It was something completely different, but like so many things for indie the false is better than the facts.

You should have voted for competent indie reps in the first place. If you vote for shit you get shit.

You know, the same idea as you Scots keep on saying to nasty tory England?

[eFestivals]

They'd happily prop up Tory policies though. Did you see the link?

I wonder wht consideration LJS and comfy might give to this....

Labour will "fall back on the same desperate mantras as before" and tell voters north of the border the only way to keep the Conservatives out of Downing Street is to back Ed Miliband's party, she will say.

But she will claim that is "the biggest con trick in Scottish politics" and say voters must "not fall for it again".

If Scotland votes SNP and the tories form the govt, what happens next?

[eFestivals]

She will add: "Perhaps this time Scotland's votes will count. Scotland could well hold the balance of power in a Westminster parliament with no overall majority."

Perhaps that'll be exactly the same as now?

Cos it's Scottish MPs that are propping up the coalition right now.

It's a bit inconvenient to claim that Scotland gets the govt that England votes for at a time when England has the govt that Scottish votes has created.

But just don't mention that bit, eh?

[eFestivals]

But how the SNP would pay for all of this, in the absence of a significant increase in taxation, is the question it still won't answer.

Can anyone here please tell me where the SNP's magic money tree is, please?

They used to say their magic money tree was watered by oil, but we know that's not true. So where is it?

[eFestivals]

you are comparing the Indy white paper with labours UK GE proposals which is a pretty bizarre comparison to make.

Bizarre, really?

What's bizarre is the SNP thinking that high taxes for the rich English is a good thing, but that high taxes for the rich Scottish is a bad thing.

Anyone with a brain might think the SNP have a confused ideology if thinking stopped just there.

For those whose thinking extends a bit further it's clear to see that such contradictions are about fucking over people's lives for political advantage - including fucking over Scottish lives via lies about their intentions.

Either the SNP think the rich should pay more in tax, or they don't. Which is it? You don't know, but you'll claim them as left wing even if they're right wing.

oh look, a squirrel

That works on Scottish people, clearly, but leave me out of that sort of bollocks, eh?

I'm after a discussion on policies. The SNP have clearly stated they're against higher taxes for the rich, and that remains their policy at this time.

Can you discuss policies and admit them for what they are, or can you only talk squirrels?

Edited December 30, 2014 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

was it ok for Labour to fail to support an SNP amendment to scrap the bedroom tax?

ahhh, those wonderful SNP myths. Here's the timeline....

1. Alex says "I'm against the bedroom tax".

2. SLAB bate him, saying "abolish it then. Oh, you can't, can you?"

3. Alex says "yes I can, I'm just not going to, that's all".

4. SLAB says "oh, so you're for it really then?"

5. Alex says "no, I'm against it. I'm going to abolish it, but I'll do nothing to abolish it".

6. SLAB says "that's because you can't".

7. Alex: "yes I can".

8. SLAB: "no you can't".

9. Alex: "yes I can".

10. SLAB: "do it then".

11. Alex: "but i don't know if I'm allowed to".

12. SLAB: "but you said you could".

13. Alex: "I can, but I'm not sure, which is why i'm doing nothing".

14. SLAB: "why not ask Dave then?"

15. Alex: "I'm the Scottish first minister, and I bow down to no one".

16. SLAB: "so do it then".

17. Alex: "I'm not sure if Dave will let me".

18. SLAB: "As you don't know your arse from your elbow, Alex, and because you're such a weakling that won't ask, Alex, shall we ask for you?"

19. Alex: "I'm the first Minister, and I don't need to ask."

20. SLAB: "so you can't do it then."

21. Alex: "yes I can".

22. SLAB: "no you can't".

23. Alex: "yes I can".

24. SLAB: "no you can't".

25. Alex: "will you nice people of SLAB ask Dave for me? I can't be seen to be weak".

26. SLAB: "OK, OK, because you're a weakling we'll ask Dave for you"

<meanwhile 2 years have passed, and Scottish people have been fucked over for 2 years by Alex's fear of looking weak>

27. SLAB: "hey Alex, Dave says 'yes'".

28. Alex: "I'll abolish the Bedroom Tax, cos that's what a nice man I am".

But yeah, Alex was stopped from doing anything about the bedroom tax for years within his own majority SNP govt by SLAB. PMSL.

[eFestivals]

So, writing a letter egging on Fred the Shred (because writing letters is the extent of your power over these matters) is worse than enabling & encouraging the spivs to bring the country to its knees - aye right!

Myths again, who'd have thought it, eh?

Salmond stated clearly that Labour regulation was too tight, and that bankers regulation should be much looser.

Brown enabled the spivs.

Salmond would have given them complete free-reign.

But just pretend that raving-right-wing policy is left wing.

Oh look, over there ... a squirrel.