The Dirty Independence Question

[viberunner]

yes, i'm a tory because I laugh at your constant gross stupidity.

 

No, you're a Tory because of everything you have been saying on economic policy over the last year.

[viberunner]

You really are some kind of special stupid, aren't you?

 

 

I'd rather be called stupid by a Tory than "a good man" by the likes of you.

[kaosmark2]

I'd rather be called stupid by a Tory than "a good man" by the likes of you.

You're more racist than rural middle-Englanders.

[eFestivals]

You think the UK could survive if the Scottish people elect the SNP in, the SNP hold a referendum, the vote is YES, but a London party with exactly one Scottish MP says no?

 

Get real.

 

If it'#s an unapproved ref, yes I do.

 

Why do you think the vote would be UK-meaningful when the UK had made clear that it wasn't? It would have all the yes-ers voting and few others.

 

You seem to have forgotten and the clear and unequivocal and many-times repeated "once in a generation".

 

You had your chance, and for the moment at least its gone.

[eFestivals]

No, you're a Tory because of everything you have been saying on economic policy over the last year.

 

what, you mean what I've been saying which matches the SNP's policy of making cuts to nice things?

 

If i'm a tory so are your heroes.

 

But luckily not everyone is as stupid as you. Not even the SNP.

[eFestivals]

I'd rather be called stupid by a Tory than "a good man" by the likes of you.

 

well, there's definitely no chance of the 'good man' bit.

 

So you're defo more tory than you are 'good man'.

[LJS]

If it'#s an unapproved ref, yes I do.

Why do you think the vote would be UK-meaningful when the UK had made clear that it wasn't? It would have all the yes-ers voting and few others.

You seem to have forgotten and the clear and unequivocal and many-times repeated "once in a generation".

You had your chance, and for the moment at least its gone.

The "once in a generation" promise that no one has yet been able to find.

Because they would surely post a link to it if they did.

[eFestivals]

The "once in a generation" promise that no one has yet been able to find.

Because they would surely post a link to it if they did.

 

It's in the white paper.

 

Here's the link, because I know you love links.

http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0043/00439021.pdf

 

Just search for 'generation' and you'll find it. Three times!

 

A once in a generation opportunity to follow a different path ....

 

.. a once in a generation opportunity to chart a better way.

It is the view of the current Scottish Government that a referendum is a once-in-a-generation opportunity.

 

YOU NEVER READ IT!

 

There's also endless instances of Salmond saying it, Sturgeon saying it, Swinney saying it, etc, etc, etc.

 

FFS.

Edited July 29, 2015 by eFestivals

[russycarps]

 

It's in the white paper.

 

Here's the link, because I know you love links.

http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0043/00439021.pdf

 

Just search for 'generation' and you'll find it. Three times!

 

 

 

YOU NEVER READ IT!

 

There's also endless instances of Salmond saying it, Sturgeon saying it, Swinney saying it, etc, etc, etc.

 

FFS.

 

 

I'd forgotten what great comedy that white paper was.

 

"Production in Scottish waters could generate approximately £48 billion in tax revenue between 2012/13 and 2017/18 based on industry estimates of production and an average cash price of approximately 113 dollars per barrel."

 

 

Can any of the raving nationalists advise what the projections for how big the promised sovereign wealth fund would be by now are?

[LJS]

It's in the white paper.

Here's the link, because I know you love links.

http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0043/00439021.pdf

Just search for 'generation' and you'll find it. Three times!

YOU NEVER READ IT!

There's also endless instances of Salmond saying it, Sturgeon saying it, Swinney saying it, etc, etc, etc.

FFS.

And not one of them is a pledge or a promise or a vow.

[eFestivals]

And not one of them is a pledge or a promise or a vow.

 

each is clear and unequivocal and exceedingly easy to find (when you said no one could) in a document you claim to have read but never did.

 

Even when it's there in black and white in front of you you deny it exists.

 

And isn't it funny that the SNP say "the vow" hasn't been complied with, but can't name a single thing where it hasn't been?

 

Presumably, all of the Salmond lies don't count back on him in the way that snippers want govt "lies" (not that they can find any) to count back onto the govt...?

 

And meanwhile, it's the SNP who are the ones pushing the "another ref" idea - as started this time round by a formal question to the Scottish Office by an SNP representative.

 

But let's just pretend that black is white and white is black, till those bits of bullshit and hypocrisy have been exposed as bullshit and hypocrisy, by which time the SNP's newly-stated position will be puke-coloured.

Edited July 29, 2015 by eFestivals

[LJS]

each is clear and unequivocal and exceedingly easy to find (when you said no one could) in a document you claim to have read but never did.

Even when it's there in black and white in front of you you deny it exists.

And isn't it funny that the SNP say "the vow" hasn't been complied with, but can't name a single thing where it hasn't been?

Presumably, all of the Salmond lies don't count back on him in the way that snippers want govt "lies" (not that they can find any) to count back onto the govt...?

And meanwhile, it's the SNP who are the ones pushing the "another ref" idea - as started this time round by a formal question to the Scottish Office by an SNP representative.

But let's just pretend that black is white and white is black, till those bits of bullshit and hypocrisy have been exposed as bullshit and hypocrisy, by which time the SNP's newly-stated position will be puke-coloured.

Still not a promise. It's the sort of thing politicians sat, you know, like 10 days to save the NHS & stuff like that.

[eFestivals]

Still not a promise. It's the sort of thing politicians sat, you know, like 10 days to save the NHS & stuff like that.

 

OK, OK, have it your way, and have the neverendum destroy all hopes of Scottish indy forever.

 

Each time it's threatened, another 1000 poor people in Scotland die.... or at least, the Scottish economy gets even further away from was already an impossible dream, and the abilities of Scotland do any of what you hope for itself lessens.

 

I suspect that once this sort of bollocks has a real tangible effect onto Scotland - as it will do when the new powers are in force - you'll start to scream about how Scotland is fucking up Scotland.

 

Or maybe you're so far up your own dogma you'll think Scotland fucking up Scotland should be cheered as good thing.

 

Who knows? I don't, because what you say one week is different to the next. So I doubt you know either.

[krisskross]

Looks like the introduction of higher tuition fees wasn't so good for poorer kids going to uni. Applications were up but accepting places went down. Maybe Scotland got it right

 

http://blog.universitiesuk.ac.uk/2015/07/09/ou-head-are-more-students-from-poorer-backgrounds-going-to-university/

[eFestivals]

Looks like the introduction of higher tuition fees wasn't so good for poorer kids going to uni. Applications were up but accepting places went down. Maybe Scotland got it right

 

http://blog.universitiesuk.ac.uk/2015/07/09/ou-head-are-more-students-from-poorer-backgrounds-going-to-university/

eh? Applications from the poorer types are down in Scotland compared to England because of the lower Scottish grant.

(that'll change after next summer tho when the grants are killed completely in England).

[russycarps]

So all the oil majors now accept the current prices are the new normal, and capital spending has been slashed accordingly. We are now in an era of relatively predictable prices (and it's going downwards).

And in other shocking news for Scotland, the US are considering lifting their decades old crude oil export ban and going to war with the middle east. For those unaware, the US is now the world's biggest oil producer.

Remember also that Iran are also soon to return to the market.

What do you think the impact will be on oil prices my raving nationalist friends?

Presumably the snp will be releasing a full and frank apology for the gross incompetence they spouted in the white paper.

Was it incompetence though? Or calculated bare faced lies to the Scottish people? I'm not sure what is worse.

Anyway, I think we can all finally agree that scotland has had an extremely close shave. God bless the 55% who saw through the absurd forecasts.

Edited July 31, 2015 by russycarps

[LJS]

So all the oil majors now accept the current prices are the new normal, and capital spending has been slashed accordingly. We are now in an era of relatively predictable prices (and it's going downwards).

And in other shocking news for Scotland, the US are considering lifting their decades old crude oil export ban and going to war with the middle east. For those unaware, the US is now the world's biggest oil producer.

Remember also that Iran are also soon to return to the market.

What do you think the impact will be on oil prices my raving nationalist friends?

Presumably the snp will be releasing a full and frank apology for the gross incompetence they spouted in the white paper.

Was it incompetence though? Or calculated bare faced lies to the Scottish people? I'm not sure what is worse.

Anyway, I think we can all finally agree that scotland has had an extremely close shave. God bless the 55% who saw through the absurd forecasts.

You're funny.

Oil prices are only unpredictable when they're high. I wonder why that might be.

[eFestivals]

You're funny.

Oil prices are only unpredictable when they're high. I wonder why that might be.

 

there's no distraction snipper's won't use to avoid facing up to what you swerved.

 

Go read the white paper for the first time, to understand just how dependent on that oil money iScotland would have been.

 

You haven't fallen for "the oil money is a bonus" myth, have you? That would be mighty stupid.

[russycarps]

just found a photo of ljs, comfy and viberunner

 

[LJS]

there's no distraction snipper's won't use to avoid facing up to what you swerved.

Go read the white paper for the first time, to understand just how dependent on that oil money iScotland would have been.

You haven't fallen for "the oil money is a bonus" myth, have you? That would be mighty stupid.

I'm just amused at how Russy & you have abandoned your volatility argument. The middle east is now such a haven of peace & stability that nothing could possibly happen that would result in the price of oil rising.

If you cast your mind back, you will recall that oil played little or no part in my reasons for voting yes just as I didn't base my vote on the white paper: but then that's all rather inconvenient for your rather simplistic point of view.

[eFestivals]

just found a photo of ljs, comfy and viberunner

 

 

[eFestivals]

I'm just amused at how Russy & you have abandoned your volatility argument.

What?

It can go up as well as down. The point is that the SNP's projections only really allowed for up and up and UP, when it was already clear that as far as revenues to govt was concerned the trend was down no matter what the oil price was.

The SNP had a 'middle' price of $113, with no low below $77 (and then only very briefly as low as $77). Unless those were hit, iScotland would need big cuts in public spending or big tax rises.

 

Oil was to be 18% of Scottish Govt revenues. Did you miss that bit?

And that's before getting onto the fact that Salmond had committed to spending one lot of oil money four times over. Impossible, no matter what the price was.

 

The middle east is now such a haven of peace & stability that nothing could possibly happen that would result in the price of oil rising.

If you cast your mind back, you will recall that oil played little or no part in my reasons for voting yes just as I didn't base my vote on the white paper: but then that's all rather inconvenient for your rather simplistic point of view.

 

Yep, I know you said you were happy to vote yourself poorer.

But I also know that you refused to sell indie on the basis of what you believed might happen, instead promising those you were trying to convince to vote yes that only a bountiful future awaited them.

As i've always said: vote indie if you want to, but don't sell your countrymen a crock of shit.

 

If you're really brave enough to vote yourself poorer you should also be brave enough and with enough integrity to make it clear that's what you believe will happen.

If you don't believe that's what will happen, you'll have to show me the money. As Salmond couldn't, you can't either.

[LJS]

Yep, I know you said you were happy to vote yourself poorer.

But I also know that you refused to sell indie on the basis of what you believed might happen, instead promising those you were trying to convince to vote yes that only a bountiful future awaited them.

This is a lie.

[eFestivals]

This is a lie.

 

I asked you countless times what you were selling to those you were trying to convince, and while you chose to answer other posts you never answered that one - so it doesn't take a genius to know which you were doing.

 

But if it is a lie, that means you were trying to convince those others by saying "vote yourself poorer" - which means you accept it was that and now you're talking crap about how the oil price wasn't important.

 

So pick whichever 'lie' you want LJS, and neither makes you look credible. Still, that's what you were selling , nothing credible.

[russycarps]

This is a lie.

 

 

no, THIS is a lie

 

"the creation of a sovereign wealth fund – a Scottish Energy Fund – to enhance both the Scottish Government’s ability to manage short-term fluctuations in oil revenues and to promote long-term fiscal sustainability"