The Dirty Independence Question

[Comfy Bean]

What a GE?

What do you mean mate. Another ref?

I assume you don't mean that, we just had one and the people spoke.

Looks like it came too early. Just.

[eFestivals]

After last years vote a 5% swing was all that was required. Oil price down the shitter and support on the up. It`s when not if 

Yep, it's if you want even worse austerity than the tories give you.

Do you?

Where's the £15Bn?

[eFestivals]

According to this poll, if a referendum was called tomorrow Scotland would vote YES and leave Team UK.

and we both know that's not true, I hope.

No hard feelings. It`s time for something different for us.

The hard feelings will be yours to linger over for ever more. The hard feelings about the bad choice you'll have made.

Where's the £15Bn?

[Comfy Bean]

In an indy Scotland, the tories will have very little say.

Surely we can all agree that is a good thing :-)

Can you break down the 15 bill again please. Remember we did it the other week and we halved it in a day.

[eFestivals]

What a GE?

What do you mean mate. Another ref?

I assume you don't mean that, we just had one and the people spoke.

Looks like it came too early. Just.

PMSL.

The SNP are glowing that they lost. It's folk like you who have your head in shit.

The SNP don't even want FFA and you've not even noticed.

How many money men do you know who'll grant loans to someone who says they can't even say how they might pay it back for at least a decade?

Where's the £15Bn?

[eFestivals]

In an indy Scotland, the tories will have very little say.

in an indy Scotland the UK govt will be the biggest beast in your life, and finally never on your side. 

 

At least at the mo it's paying you for the shit it gives you.

Edited September 2, 2015 by eFestivals

[Comfy Bean]

Oh and yes I agree it will take more the 1 day for us to sever all ties with the tories.

I remember saying it would take many years to negotiate our farewell to the great Britain.

Some argued that with the click of a finger we would lose a billion gazillion each and every year for ever and ever lol.

[Comfy Bean]

Neil I sense the penny is dropping from your posts :-)

You used to think support had peaked.

Are you now in the when not if camp?

[Comfy Bean]

PMSL. :lol:The SNP are glowing that they lost. It's folk like you who have your head in shit.The SNP don't even want FFA and you've not even noticed.How many money men do you know who'll grant loans to someone who says they can't even say how they might pay it back for at least a decade?Where's the £15Bn?

My goodness. On that last bit, maybe you need to think that through. Just you keep sticking up for those poor money men. Where would we be without them.

[eFestivals]

Some argued that with the click of a finger we would lose a billion gazillion each and every year for ever and ever lol.

and those on your side never actually have any reasons for why you won't.

Where's the £15Bn?

[eFestivals]

Neil I sense the penny is dropping from your posts :-)

You used to think support had peaked.

Are you now in the when not if camp?

There's a big difference between a meaningless poll and reality.

Get back to me when you've got the bottle to match your bravado, and then we'll see a divided and poorer country.

[eFestivals]

My goodness. On that last bit, maybe you need to think that through. Just you keep sticking up for those poor money men. Where would we be without them.

where would Scotland be if it paid it's own way? In shit creek.

Where's the £15Bn?

[LJS]

Yep, it's if you want even worse austerity than the tories give you.

Do you?

Where's the £15Bn?

 

 

and we both know that's not true, I hope.

The hard feelings will be yours to linger over for ever more. The hard feelings about the bad choice you'll have made.

Where's the £15Bn?

 

PMSL.

The SNP are glowing that they lost. It's folk like you who have your head in shit.

The SNP don't even want FFA and you've not even noticed.

How many money men do you know who'll grant loans to someone who says they can't even say how they might pay it back for at least a decade?

Where's the £15Bn?

 

 

and those on your side never actually have any reasons for why you won't.

Where's the £15Bn?

 

where would Scotland be if it paid it's own way? In shit creek.

Where's the £15Bn?

 

 

 

 

 

How much extra Scotland needs per year is a purely hypothetical question as there is no Indy ref on the horizon once there is & we have a proposed date for Indy, I'll be happy to discuss the exact amount iScotland looks like it will be better or worse off. Until then, you are well aware of why I support Indy & why I believe Scotland would be better off in the long term on its own so you'll just have to make do with that.  I know you disagree but hey, I can live with that.

Edited September 2, 2015 by LJS

[eFestivals]

How much extra Scotland needs per year is a purely hypothetical question as there is no Indy ref on the horizon once there is & we have a proposed date for Indy, I'll be happy to discuss the exact amount iScotland looks like it will be better or worse off. Until then, you are well aware of why I support Indy & why I believe Scotland would be better off in the long term on its own so you'll just have to make do with that. I know you disagree but hey, I can live with that.

and just when you think you're about to jump off that cliff, you stop for a moment and wonder "just perhaps....?"

 

Without the £15Bn you're going nowhere. Feel free to prove me wrong.

[LJS]

and just when you think you're about to jump off that cliff, you stop for a moment and wonder "just perhaps....?"

Without the £15Bn you're going nowhere. Feel free to prove me wrong.

What £15bn is that, Neil? Is it the £15bn that is an estimated deficit for an independent Scotland for a year in which there is no chance of there being an independent Scotland?

I'm sure you'll understand why I am not wasting my time bothering responding to this nonsense.

Edited September 3, 2015 by LJS

[Stash]

What £15bn is that, Neil? Is it the £15bn that is an estimated deficit for an independent Scotland for a year in which there is no chance of there being an independent Scotland?

I'm sure you'll understand why I am not wasting my time bothering responding to this nonsense.

Probably for the same reason you refused to engage in discussion about the financial implications of secession during the debate last year.

[LJS]

Probably for the same reason you refused to engage in discussion about the financial implications of secession during the debate last year.

This is incorrect. You are confusing refusing to engage in discussion with refusing to agree with Neil.

I discussed the financial position of iScotland endlessly.

[eFestivals]

What £15bn is that, Neil? Is it the £15bn that is an estimated deficit for an independent Scotland for a year in which there is no chance of there being an independent Scotland?

I'm sure you'll understand why I am not wasting my time bothering responding to this nonsense.

 

it's also the estimated deficit for a Scotland for any year in which it might choose being an independent Scotland, and for the years after.

 

But let's just pretend the money will be magicked out of the air at a convenient moment, yeah, without ever stopping to ask why hasn't it been done.already if it's that easy.

Edited September 3, 2015 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

I discussed the financial position of iScotland endlessly.

 

It's true, you did.

 

You told us all how everything would be fine because Alex can do sums like a five year old, and said that it wass impossible for the oil price to fall.

 

And when it did fall you said "it doesn't count, because it's not March 2016 yet".

 

And in March 2016, you';ll find another fairy story.

 

But what you'll never find is the missing £15Bn.

[gary1979666]

If Scotland went indy, then I'd wager a Tory resurgence after a few years.  There would be a pinch in the finances and an election based on economic competence would raise its head again (similar to 2010).  Not saying they would win, but a significant increase for sure.

[eFestivals]

If Scotland went indy, then I'd wager a Tory resurgence after a few years.  There would be a pinch in the finances and an election based on economic competence would raise its head again (similar to 2010).  Not saying they would win, but a significant increase for sure.

 

what would very definitely 'win' would be massive spending cuts.

 

There's no alternative for a self-funding Scotland, which is why even the biggest advocates of a self-funding Scotland have bottled out of having Scotland self-fund.

 

The SNP are so very much in favour of indy, their version of "self funding" - as laid out formally in a HoC amendment - is now "England will pay for our largesse, and if once every twenty years we perhaps run a surplus, the surplus is ours".

 

It's like the teenager running back to to mummy for a handout.

[LJS]

If Scotland went indy, then I'd wager a Tory resurgence after a few years. There would be a pinch in the finances and an election based on economic competence would raise its head again (similar to 2010). Not saying they would win, but a significant increase for sure.

I think a Tory revival of sorts is perfectly possible. Where Neil & I agree (yes you read that right) is that Scots conservative voters didn't stop being conservatives in the 80's. They just stopped voting Tory.Thatcher killed the Tory party in Scotland.

In an independent Scotland the Scottish conservatives would have an opportunity to break the link with the UK Tories & with that comes the opportunity to win back the lost Tories.

[eFestivals]

I think a Tory revival of sorts is perfectly possible. Where Neil & I agree (yes you read that right) is that Scots conservative voters didn't stop being conservatives in the 80's. They just stopped voting Tory.Thatcher killed the Tory party in Scotland.

 

In an independent Scotland the Scottish conservatives would have an opportunity to break the link with the UK Tories & with that comes the opportunity to win back the lost Tories.

 

I'd say you've got that very wrong. Thatcher didn't kill the tories in Scotland, it was Scottish culture that did.

 

Nothing of the thinking changed, it just because socially unacceptable to vote tory. Nothing about thought, and everything about social pressure and a sheep-like mentality.

 

It's certainly the case that social attitudes surveys bear this all out. There's very little differences in attitudes but big differences in voting.

 

The same thing has come round again.

Edited September 3, 2015 by eFestivals

[LJS]

I'd say you've got that very wrong. Thatcher didn't kill the tories in Scotland, it was Scottish culture that did.

Nothing of the thinking changed, it just because socially unacceptable to vote tory. Nothing about thought, and everything about social pressure and a sheep-like mentality.

It's certainly the case that social attitudes surveys bear this all out. There's very little differences in attitudes but big differences in voting.

The same thing has come round again.

2 sides of the same thing. Why did it become socially unacceptable to vote Tory in the 80's? Thatcher is the answer.

[eFestivals]

2 sides of the same thing. Why did it become socially unacceptable to vote Tory in the 80's? Thatcher is the answer.

 

Not quite the same thing.

 

Those who stopped voting Thatcher aren't the ones who disliked Thatcher.