The Dirty Independence Question

[LJS]

But it won't be lower spending, will it? Unless you're advocating more-than-tory-austerity?

You already claim spending is lower than is acceptable by demanding more spending.

With an Indy ref likely to be at least 5 years away, I have no idea what the financial positions of the UK & Scotland will be then. When we have a new Indy ref, those seeking to persuade us to vote yes will no doubt present a plan. Until then I see no value in speculating about whatiffery.

Have a good day.

Thanks for the cake.

[eFestivals]

With an Indy ref likely to be at least 5 years away, I have no idea what the financial positions of the UK & Scotland will be then. When we have a new Indy ref, those seeking to persuade us to vote yes will no doubt present a plan. Until then I see no value in speculating about whatiffery.

Have a good day.

Thanks for the cake.

 

 

yep, you 're definitely not swerving anything, are you? PMSL.

 

When the fuck-up of the last plan is presented to you, you weren't voting for that plan.

 

When the fucked-up state of Scottish finances is presented to you, you claim it will be better next time you vote.

 

Yet the same fuck-ups were both in place last time, and you voted yes.

 

So it's already proven that you're happy to vote for Scottish bankruptcy.

 

Why not just have the guts to say there's almost nothing that would stop you voting yes?

 

Is it because you want to pretend there's something rational to your desire for indy? PMSL.

[russycarps]

I think I understand where ljs is coming from.

 

Now his beloved snp are in charge scotland will clearly become the most prosperous region of the world in 5 years time and a trifling £15bn will seem like peanuts. 

 

Electricity generated from their precious wind farms will be exported all around the world!

 

Haggis sales through the roof!

 

Billions of tonnes of salmon sold!

 

Men on every continent wearing a kilt and sporran!

 

Whisky overtaking water as the most drank drink on the planet!

 

Oil reserves double the size of saudi arabia discovered in the gorbals!

 

How shortsighted we are not to see this.

Edited September 11, 2015 by russycarps

[LJS]

I think I understand where ljs is coming from.

Now his beloved snp are in charge scotland will clearly become the most prosperous region of the world in 5 years time and a trifling £15bn will seem like peanuts.

Electricity generated from their precious wind farms will be exported all around the world!

Haggis sales through the roof!

Billions of tonnes of salmon sold!

Men on every continent wearing a kilt and sporran!

Whisky overtaking water as the most drank drink on the planet!

Oil reserves double the size of saudi arabia discovered in the gorbals!

How shortsighted we are not to see this.

No cake, Russy?

[eFestivals]

Whisky overtaking water as the most drank drink on the planet!

sadly for Scotland, just like with oil, the market for the Scottish product is falling.

[eFestivals]

No cake, Russy?

 

 

endless amounts of it LJS - as much as you can dream of.

 

Same as with the money. You can have all you can dream about.

 

Isn't it funny how you're still starving to death despite having all that cake?

[eFestivals]

So LJS & Comfy, what will the next White Paper have to be saying for you to support a yes vote?

Will there have to be a credible economic plan, or not?

If so, presumably that was the case with the last vote? And if so, do you still think the last plan was credible?

Edited September 11, 2015 by eFestivals

[russycarps]

sadly for Scotland, just like with oil, the market for the Scottish product is falling.

 

 

only a quarter of distilleries are owned by scottish companies anyway, and most of them are minnows. Wonder how much tax the others pay..

Edited September 11, 2015 by russycarps

[eFestivals]

only a quarter of distilleries are owned by scottish companies anyway, and most of them are minnows. Wonder how much tax the others pay..

 

the whisky trade isn't worth much in tax to Scotland.

 

The major tax benefit from alcohol is internal VAT & alcohol taxes, and only a small percentage of what's produced is sold within Scotland, so it's nothing much to write home about.

 

It's of course a decent export earner, but that's tax-free on the sales side of things.

 

It's also a significant industry within Scotland, so there's income taxes and corp taxes, but nothing proportionally greater than from any other employment or industry.

[eFestivals]

Am loving today's squirrel, both for Corbyn and to head off a conference rebellion.

Am also loving that the people decide by that sturgeon gets a veto over the people. Lol

[Comfy Bean]

I think I understand where ljs is coming from.

 

Now his beloved snp are in charge scotland will clearly become the most prosperous region of the world in 5 years time and a trifling £15bn will seem like peanuts. 

 

Electricity generated from their precious wind farms will be exported all around the world!

 

Haggis sales through the roof!

 

Billions of tonnes of salmon sold!

 

Men on every continent wearing a kilt and sporran!

 

Whisky overtaking water as the most drank drink on the planet!

 

Oil reserves double the size of saudi arabia discovered in the gorbals!

 

How shortsighted we are not to see this.

 

 

What a load of patronising shite   Your trolling used to be so much better than this.

 

You mention £15 billion. Is this just because Neil told you ? Serious question.

 

Do you know where the Gorbals is ?

 

What you got against " precious wind farms ". Surely our renewable energy resources are to be celebrated and invested in. They are the future are they not ?

 

The haggis and kilt stuff makes you sound like a 14 year old.

 

Apologies if you are 14     

[Comfy Bean]

only a quarter of distilleries are owned by scottish companies anyway, and most of them are minnows. Wonder how much tax the others pay..

 

Perhaps they employ a lot of local people and develop skills exported around the world. Some of the communities they employ from will also be pretty rural I would imagine so there is always that.

 

Are we now going to have constant updates on the burden of our whisky industries ?

[Comfy Bean]

Read today in an actual newspaper ( it was my mums so apologies for no link - I tried but it`s behind a pay wall ) that the Institute of Fiscal Studies think that INCLUSIVE of falling oil revs the Scottish deficit will be 4.6% of GDP by 2019. It is of course possible that the oil price may have increased by then. Most commentators including our own on here think we are near the bottom of the price range. 

 

Now this would be an improvement on the 5% we were at for the last Indy vote and would also be the " best " we will have seen in around a decade. It should of course be remembered that during that period we were run from Westminster.

 

Does this tie in with the £15billion that gets mentioned the odd time on here ?

[eFestivals]

Read today in an actual newspaper ( it was my mums so apologies for no link - I tried but it`s behind a pay wall ) that the Institute of Fiscal Studies think that INCLUSIVE of falling oil revs the Scottish deficit will be 4.6% of GDP by 2019. It is of course possible that the oil price may have increased by then. Most commentators including our own on here think we are near the bottom of the price range. 

 

Now this would be an improvement on the 5% we were at for the last Indy vote and would also be the " best " we will have seen in around a decade. It should of course be remembered that during that period we were run from Westminster.

 

Does this tie in with the £15billion that gets mentioned the odd time on here ?

comfy cheers Gideon's austerity programme shocker.

[eFestivals]

Sturgeon: we can win if our supporters are even more brain-dead than they've been so far.

 

If we’d asked people just to vote for what was in their hearts we’d have won a majority. Where we lost was in the head. That’s where we’ve got to do more and do better at convincing people.”

Edited September 14, 2015 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

SNP bigwig at centre of cronyism row quits MSP bid in order to cash in on more corruption opportunities.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13717555.Aide_at_centre_of_T_in_the_Park_row_abandons_MSP_bid/

Fancy that eh, a thatcherite chasing personal opportunities and not caring about making changes for the better. erhaps if more SNP members got in on the corruption game the Scottish economy could be expanded to cover the £10Bn shortfall in public finances.

[LJS]

Sturgeon: we can win if our supporters are even more brain-dead than they've been so far.

Arse!

[eFestivals]

Arse!

Yep, I guess you're feeling that you are.

When even your glorious leader calls you brain-dead you should realise just what an arse you've been.

[eFestivals]

PS: did you also notice the bit where she fesses up to having no answers to Scotland's shit financial position?

Yet you believe she does.

And did you notice the bit where she says there's no option but to have an iScotland on the tory's string of using Sterling?

So much for independence.

[russycarps]

Sturgeon: we can win if our supporters are even more brain-dead than they've been so far.

 

 

 

This cannot be true. Surely you are making this up? 

 

Imagine being a raving nationalist and reading that....wow.......

[eFestivals]

This cannot be true. Surely you are making this up? 

 

Imagine being a raving nationalist and reading that....wow.......

I know, it's utterly fantastic, isn't it? Especially when you bear in mind that within the same article she's making it wholely-clear that she has none of the practical answers to the reasons why thinking Scots rejected indy.

 

She knows she can only win if the voters turn their brains off.

 

What this is really about tho is trying to head off a rebellion at the SNP's forthcoming conference, where all discussion of indy is banned - and it's banned because the SNP don't have those practical answers.

 

As was made clear in the SNP's laughable FFA amendment to the Scotland bill, where FFA would only come into affect when the SNP said it should (which is never, because they don't have those money answers).

 

I'm very much looking forwards to reading what the 'triggers' might be in the SNP's 2016 manifesto. Here's betting they'll be couched in such a way that there's a get-out for the SNP so they don't actually have to act.

 

The SNP's bullshit has taken on a life of its own amongst the SNP's supporters, and the SNP are no longer able to control it - unless they start making explicit statements about just how much they've been bullshitting people.

[russycarps]

I know, it's utterly fantastic, isn't it? Especially when you bear in mind that within the same article she's making it wholely-clear that she has none of the practical answers to the reasons why thinking Scots rejected indy.

 

She knows she can only win if the voters turn their brains off.

 

What this is really about tho is trying to head off a rebellion at the SNP's forthcoming conference, where all discussion of indy is banned - and it's banned because the SNP don't have those practical answers.

 

As was made clear in the SNP's laughable FFA amendment to the Scotland bill, where FFA would only come into affect when the SNP said it should (which is never, because they don't have those money answers).

 

I'm very much looking forwards to reading what the 'triggers' might be in the SNP's 2016 manifesto. Here's betting they'll be couched in such a way that there's a get-out for the SNP so they don't actually have to act.

 

The SNP's bullshit has taken on a life of its own amongst the SNP's supporters, and the SNP are no longer able to control it - unless they start making explicit statements about just how much they've been bullshitting people.

 

 

 

This thread has been really beneficial to understand how the snp still has the support it does. Seemingly semi-intelligent people like ljs and comfy are just so utterly in denial they will continue to champion indy no matter what. NOTHING now can change their mind. Even when their glorious leader makes statements like this.

 

It is the most bizarre phenomenon I've ever encountered.

 

No wonder salmond was shitting himself when it looked like they might actually win independence for a day or two. 

[eFestivals]

It is the most bizarre phenomenon I've ever encountered.

 

 

newly resurrected around Corbyn with all of the same brain-off.

[tolywoly]

It's a more level headed assessment of where they stand than you'd have got from Salmond. Basically telling her more rabid supporters to 'get a grip', and outlining the reality of their situation.

 

The SNP have never been in a stronger position, but are unable to produce a clear and consistent majority in favour of independence. And that's without the scrutiny a second referendum would bring. Without one of those material changes it doesn't look winnable. And it really would have to be a generation this time.

 

Changing their currency stance now would be tantamount to admitting they were talking crap last year when they said CU was a certainty. That's what the other party leaders would say anyway, they'd be all over it.

 

And Sturgeon knows the realpolitik of the currency situation hasn't changed - CU is the only currency option that's currently acceptable to enough people. So they're stuck with it for the time being, and if that debate kicks off again they'll have to make the best of it. It's an argument they're best avoiding.

 

That said, Salmond was quite successful in conflating CU and using the pound outside of a CU in a lot of people's minds. Getting Darling to 'admit' no one could stop Scotland using the pound. As if any arrangement where Scotland kept the pound effectively = CU = status quo = no problemo. 

 

The social media response to that was quite depressing - 'see he's admitted we can keep the pound'. In reality they should have been scared shitless at even the slightest suggestion Scotland might try to use the pound outside of a CU.

 

That's what happens when a politician gives a direct answer. It won't happen again. 

Edited September 14, 2015 by tolywoly

[eFestivals]

Nice summary, toly.

 

I agree. Sturgeon has given a pretty honest assessment - but is trying to use bullshit to head off the mindlessness of her supporters, by pretending that another ref with a realistic chance of winning is an option when it's not.

 

It's feckin' funny tho that her honest assessment is "we can win but only if our supporters are brain dead".