The Dirty Independence Question

[kaosmark2]

If I went elsewhere and one of my Bristol pounds were refused I wouldn't turn that into some perceived sleight.

[Comfy Bean]

 

You seem to have taken your cue from Captain Kirk and only him ever saying "too small too wee too stupid". The only "too small too wee too stupid" I see are some snippers tiny minds.

 

 

 

 

In the interests of fair play I`m letting this go unless you came back on it. The last time we batted this one about ( over in the Glastonbury forum ) I posted Lamont`s quote and you apologised.

 

I`m assuming you have forgotten and are not just dragging this up ( again ) in full knowledge of what she said and how it is relevant to your -  too stupid and tiny minds stuff ( above ).

 

In other news, are these Star Trek references flying about. No idea, was more of a Star Wars man myself and much preferred the Trainspotting quotes we used to get in here.

Edited October 10, 2015 by comfortablynumb1910

[eFestivals]

tell you what comfy, why don't you become my proof?

 

Answer these simple questions yes or no:-

 

1. are you impressed by the 'business skills' of Michelle Thomson (MT), in buying houses from desperate people dying of cancer to then resell the same day for tens of thousands of pounds more?

 

2. are MT's business skills the sort of business skills that Scotland and the SNP should be promoting?

 

3. Did you believe the claims that Business for Scotland (BfS) was independent of the SNP because both said it was, and are surprised to find out that they both lied and that BfS was in fact in the direct control of St Nicola's nubby (who is also chief exec of the SNP)?

[eFestivals]

If I went elsewhere and one of my Bristol pounds were refused I wouldn't turn that into some perceived sleight.

 

exactly.

 

If you go to a place that doesn't normally accept a particular currency, you'd have to be particularly stupid to be surprised if a shop doesn't accept that currency.

[Comfy Bean]

tell you what comfy, why don't you become my proof?

 

Answer these simple questions yes or no:-

 

1. are you impressed by the 'business skills' of Michelle Thomson (MT), in buying houses from desperate people dying of cancer to then resell the same day for tens of thousands of pounds more?

 

2. are MT's business skills the sort of business skills that Scotland and the SNP should be promoting?

 

3. Did you believe the claims that Business for Scotland (BfS) was independent of the SNP because both said it was, and are surprised to find out that they both lied and that BfS was in fact in the direct control of St Nicola's nubby (who is also chief exec of the SNP)?

 

Am I impressed by her business skills making as you say tens of thousands of profit in one day ?

What kind of question is that. I think it is disgusting behavior. Not sure if it is legal, enquiry ongoing and last I heard NS has called for all the paperwork on the deals to be released - but you already knew that. I didn`t know that the deals only involved people dying of cancer.

 

The SNP are not " promoting " what YOU describe as " business skills ". NS has suspended her so again I don`t agree with your admiration of these " skills ", I agree with NS. She acted by suspending her and I agree with her decision.

 

Question 3 about " St Nicola`s nubby " as you put it is straight out that SNP bad playbook of yours. You will need to be a bit clearer about what you are implying.

 

I think MT will end up out on here arse as her business dealings ( when were these deals done by the way in relation to her being in the SNP ) are not in line with NS`s principles around social justice and a fairer society 

 

Do I think anyone will have changed their mind over Independence over this - No i don`t.

 

 

Nicola Sturgeon: If claims about Michelle Thomson's business dealings are true then her career in the SNP is over

^^^^ So says the Daily Record.

 

So...after all that we both agree with Nicola.

[eFestivals]

The SNP are not " promoting " what YOU describe as " business skills ". NS has suspended her so again I don`t agree with your admiration of these " skills ", I agree with NS. She acted by suspending her and I agree with her decision.

 

The SNP clearly held her business skills in high esteem, to have her front BfS and to appoi9nt her as their business spokesperson at Westminster.

 

Or didn't they look into her business skills, but gave her those jobs anyway?

 

Either way it's damning. The SNP aren't guilty of MT's crimes but they're guilty of promoting her.

 

 

Question 3 about " St Nicola`s nubby " as you put it is straight out that SNP bad playbook of yours. You will need to be a bit clearer about what you are implying.

Nicola's hubby is cheif exec of the SNP.

Nicola's hubby was the man controlling BfS. So much so, he suspended MT from her paid job fronting BfS (but MT loved the limelight so much she kept doing the job unpaid).

 

MT was then endorsed by Nicola's hubby's wife as both a candidate and then as business spokesperson.

What haven't you got? These are proven facts.

 

[eFestivals]

Do I think anyone will have changed their mind over Independence over this - No i don`t.

 

I didn't claim anyone had. I merely mentioned people had wised up to the weak and poor business case that the SNP had presented.

 

And you're now wiser about how weak it must have been, with MT fronting it.

 

Aren't you?

 

Or is there a mythical case that's so mythical the SNP didn't even bother to give it to you?

[LJS]

tell you what comfy, why don't you become my proof?

 

Answer these simple questions yes or no:-

 

1. are you impressed by the 'business skills' of Michelle Thomson (MT), in buying houses from desperate people dying of cancer to then resell the same day for tens of thousands of pounds more?

 

 

 

I know I'm not Comfy but i'm sure you'll allow me to comment.

 

It's not the business skills of MT that are being called into question. And just for clarity, you say she was "buying houses from desperate people dying of cancer ." How many houses did she buy from terminal cancer sufferers? From what I have read (& there are a lot of conflicting stories going around) she bought one house from a cancer sufferer. I have seen nothing to suggest that cancer was terminal.

 

Feel free to correct my error if I have made one.

 

If you don't I will take it that you are just engaging in your usual anti-SNP jamboree. i won't bore everyone by repeating the list of previous SNP "scandals" you have jumped upon only to see them evaporate.

 

 

 

  

 

2. are MT's business skills the sort of business skills that Scotland and the SNP should be promoting?

 

 

I repeat, it is not her skills that are being called into question, (although in fairness having a property portfolio worth £1.7 million is maybe not an indication of massive skills)

 

 

 

 

 

3. Did you believe the claims that Business for Scotland (BfS) was independent of the SNP because both said it was, and are surprised to find out that they both lied and that BfS was in fact in the direct control of St Nicola's nubby (who is also chief exec of the SNP)?

 

Again, methinks you exaggerate somewhat. (can't imagine why) The reports I have seen refer to a couple of e mails from Nic's man. I have seen nothing that proves that " BfS was in fact in the direct control of St Nicola's nubby."  Again, I am sure, you'll be happy to prove me wrong... if you can. 

[LJS]

If I went elsewhere and one of my Bristol pounds were refused I wouldn't turn that into some perceived sleight.

 

I'm sure this isn't really a serious point but I'll bite

 

Bristol pound

 

The Bristol Pound (£ is a form of local complementary currency, or community currency launched in Bristol, UK on 19 September 2012. Its objective is to encourage people to spend their money with local, independent businesses in Bristol and the former County of Avon. 

Bristol Pound - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Scottish pound

 

Scottish Banknotes are legal currency – i.e. they are approved by the UK Parliament.  

 

http://www.scotbanks.org.uk/legal_position.php

 

 

 

Perhaps not one of your best points ever, Kaos

[LJS]

exactly.

 

If you go to a place that doesn't normally accept a particular currency, you'd have to be particularly stupid to be surprised if a shop doesn't accept that currency.

 

Yet again you make my point for me. you equate Scottish notes ( which are legal currency) with Bristol pounds which have no value outwith Bristol.

 

You have squirreled away at this point but never addressed the central point that the refusal of businesses in the rest of the UK  to accept our perfectly good Scottish notes undermines all the BT claims of us being all one big happy family.

 

you will have noted from my previous links that there is no such thing as legal tender in Scotland. How would you feel if you visited Scotland & your crisp English notes were rejected?

[kaosmark2]

Support for SNP definitely isn't falling:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-34485275

[LJS]

Support for SNP definitely isn't falling:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-34485275

Correct Kaos.

We have quite a complicated electoral system for local elections in Scotland.

I wouldn't attach much importance to a local byelection with a turnout of just over 30% but I'll think you will find there was a small increase in the SNP vote.

Nice try.

Edited October 10, 2015 by LJS

[eFestivals]

I know I'm not Comfy but i'm sure you'll allow me to comment.

 

It's not the business skills of MT that are being called into question. And just for clarity, you say she was "buying houses from desperate people dying of cancer ." H

ow many houses did she buy from terminal cancer sufferers? From what I have read (& there are a lot of conflicting stories going around) she bought one house from a cancer sufferer. I have seen nothing to suggest that cancer was terminal.

 

Feel free to correct my error if I have made one.

 

If you don't I will take it that you are just engaging in your usual anti-SNP jamboree. i won't bore everyone by repeating the list of previous SNP "scandals" you have jumped upon only to see them evaporate.

It might be the case that it was just one with cancer and that cancer wasn't terminal.

It's certainly the case that she bought more than one property from someone in 'distress', and paid them an exceedingly low price and then resold the same day at market value - setting out to profit from those suffering.

These are not the actions of someone with Scotland's best interests at heart. These are the actions of someone with her own self-interest over-ruling everything else.

 

I repeat, it is not her skills that are being called into question, (although in fairness having a property portfolio worth £1.7 million is maybe not an indication of massive skills)

Squirrel.

The SNP put her in important positions, as the best person in the SNP to represent Scottish businesses (while lying that she was anything to do with the SNP, too!).

 

Again, methinks you exaggerate somewhat. (can't imagine why) The reports I have seen refer to a couple of e mails from Nic's man. I have seen nothing that proves that " BfS was in fact in the direct control of St Nicola's nubby."  Again, I am sure, you'll be happy to prove me wrong... if you can. 

Those emails reveal that St Nicola's hubby suspended her from her paid job fronting BfS.

How could he do that if BfS was nothing to do with the SNP (of which he was/is chief exec)?

 

It will be interesting to find out the reasons why hubby suspended her. It won't have been for doing good things, will it?

[eFestivals]

I'm sure this isn't really a serious point but I'll bite

 

Bristol pound

 

Bristol Pound - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Scottish pound

 

Perhaps not one of your best points ever, Kaos

Yep, one is independent, and the one isn't.

You know, one classes as a independent currency, and the other is just a refaced UK pound.

The amusing thing is that the independentalists are not, and the not-independentalists are.

As we both know, currency is one of Scotland's Big Questions, and one of the workable answers to that Big Question is to have an independent currency up and running and accepted by the Scottish people.

The response of those supposedly independently-minded people is to demand a tie to others rather than try to be independent. Doing nothing instead of doing something. Running away from the issue rather than facing the issue. Etc, etc, etc..

 

I'm absolutely stunned that no one on the indy side has thought of the positive possibilities here. With so many supportive of indy an independent currency would be likely to have huge support (unlike the Brizzle pound) and would take off with ease.

 

For a country that wishes to be independent, the fact of not doing this says an awful lot.

[eFestivals]

Yet again you make my point for me. you equate Scottish notes ( which are legal currency) with Bristol pounds which have no value outwith Bristol.

Scottish pounds is legal currency. Do please note that something entirely different to 'legal tender'.

But funnily enough, Bristol pounds is also legal currency. If it wasn't it would be illegal and people would be getting arrested.

Both notes only have value *IF* someone accepts them.

 

In both cases, they can be exchanged for 'real' currency that all people are obliged to accept.

 

You have squirreled away at this point but never addressed the central point that the refusal of businesses in the rest of the UK  to accept our perfectly good Scottish notes undermines all the BT claims of us being all one big happy family.

 

Do you accept notes from Albania as change for any UK transaction? Why do you think it's anything different with Scotland's not-currency outside of Scotland?

If we were all one big happy family, Scotland wouldn't have it's own notes. It's only Scotland that has chosen for itself to use its own notes. No one is forcing Scotland to have it's own notes.

 

YOU, meanwhile, think that Scotland should force the English to accept it's choice of notes.

 

Your argument simply doesn't stand up. Scotland is choosing to be different but then not accepting the consequences of it's choice to be different.

 

you will have noted from my previous links that there is no such thing as legal tender in Scotland. How would you feel if you visited Scotland & your crisp English notes were rejected?

Wrong.

UK notes are legal tender in Scotland.

FFS.

If what you say is true, then you're not obliged to pay taxes.

[eFestivals]

Support for SNP definitely isn't falling:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-34485275

If you care to note, I didn't say it was.

It appears that snippers don't do detail, preferring instead to spout big-bollocks lies to refute inconvenient facts.

[Stash]

Wrong.

UK notes are legal tender in Scotland.

FFS.

If what you say is true, then you're not obliged to pay taxes.

 

In Scotland no notes are legal tender, either UK, Scottish or Northern Irish, only coins are legal tender. 

 

Notes:

In England and Wales the £5, £10, £20 and £50 notes are legal tender for payment of any amount. However, they are not legal tender in Scotland and Northern Ireland.

Coins:

Coins are legal tender throughout the United Kingdom for the following amount:

£100 - for any amount

£20 - for any amount

£5 (Crown) - for any amount

£2 - for any amount

£1 - for any amount

50p - for any amount not exceeding £10

25p (Crown) - for any amount not exceeding £10

20p - for any amount not exceeding £10

10p - for any amount not exceeding £5

5p - for any amount not exceeding £5

2p - for any amount not exceeding 20p

1p - for any amount not exceeding 20p

Source: http://www.royalmint.com/aboutus/policies-and-guidelines/legal-tender-guidelines 

[eFestivals]

In Scotland no notes are legal tender, either UK, Scottish or Northern Irish, only coins are legal tender.

OK, fair enough. It really doesn't make any difference.

I guess at the end of the day this comes down to there never having been unitary law for the UK - at the behest of Scotland, not Westminster.

 

If there had been unitary law put on Scotland that would have been Nasty Westminster smashing Scottish culture, but because unitary law wasn't put on Scotland it's all about Nasty Westminster not having smashed Scottish culture.

 

It's wonderful idiocy from the nutty nats, because the very last thing they want is Scotland better integrated with the UK.

Edited October 11, 2015 by eFestivals

[LJS]

OK, fair enough. It really doesn't make any difference.

I guess at the end of the day this comes down to there never having been unitary law for the UK - at the behest of Scotland, not Westminster.

 

If there had been unitary law put on Scotland that would have been Nasty Westminster smashing Scottish culture, but because unitary law wasn't put on Scotland it's all about Nasty Westminster not having smashed Scottish culture.

 

It's wonderful idiocy from the nutty nats, because the very last thing they want is Scotland better integrated with the UK.

 

Yes Neil, when we joined the UK club we decided to keep our own laws, our own education system, our own Church, our own holidays etc.

 

As it was a Union (rather than a takeover) there was no more reason for us to take on your laws etc than there was for you to take on ours..

[eFestivals]

Yes Neil, when we joined the UK club we decided to keep our own laws, our own education system, our own Church, our own holidays etc.

 

As it was a Union (rather than a takeover) there was no more reason for us to take on your laws etc than there was for you to take on ours..

 

Yep, which leads thru to today, where you're now moaning about the effects of Scotland having done (what you believe to be) the best for Scotland.

 

If Scotland hadn't done (what you believe to be) the best for Scotland, there wouldn't be that Scottish notes issue you're complaining about.

 

What part of Scotland having brought this Scottish notes problem upon Scotland are you having trouble with?

[LJS]

Yep, which leads thru to today, where you're now moaning about the effects of Scotland having done (what you believe to be) the best for Scotland.

If Scotland hadn't done (what you believe to be) the best for Scotland, there wouldn't be that Scottish notes issue you're complaining about.

What part of Scotland having brought this Scottish notes problem upon Scotland are you having trouble with?

I wasn't really complaining about folk not accepting Scottish bank notes. On the occasions, I visit Engerland, I usually stock up on English notes from the first arm I encounter south of the border.

The sole reason I raised or was to point out that some of my countrymen may naively thought given all the rhetoric of last year, that you guys would be delighted to take our lovely money.

Whether there is any logic to it or not, things like this contribute to a feeling that we are not viewed as equal partners in this union.

On a side note, anyone running a business who refuses to accept Scottish (or Northern Irish) money is just an idiot.

[eFestivals]

The sole reason I raised or was to point out that some of my countrymen may naively thought given all the rhetoric of last year, that you guys would be delighted to take our lovely money.

Whether there is any logic to it or not, things like this contribute to a feeling that we are not viewed as equal partners in this union.

 

There's no logic to it, as I've already pointed out.

Scotland is choosing to not be equal by insisting on difference, and is then complaining about the effects of that difference they've brought on themselves.

Nutty nats looking for opportunities to create conflict when there could be none is what nutty nats do. Quite why you've not noticed your own method I don't know.

 

On a side note, anyone running a business who refuses to accept Scottish (or Northern Irish) money is just an idiot.

why? There's an extra cost on that business to taking it.

Do you think businesses are obliged to take on costs they don't need to take on?

Edited October 11, 2015 by eFestivals

[zahidf]

http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/the-snp-has-made-a-mess-of-scotland-and-nicola-sturgeon-is-struggling-to-deny-it/

[LJS]

Interesting article.... 

No doubt the likes of LJS will dismiss it...

 

No not outright he won't, although neither will he swallow it hook line & sinker.

 

We have covered this ground before & I am certainly far from convinced that the Scottish Government have done all they could in this area. (incidentally this applies equally to the previous labour/libdem administrations.

 

I will admit to having some doubts about an article written by "the editor of The Spectator. He is also a columnist with The Daily Telegraph, a member of the advisory board of the Centre for Social Justice and the Centre for Policy Studies."

 

These doubts don't make his conclusions inevitably wrong, however it indicates where he's coming from.

 

One of the problems in this area is that we are not always comparing like for like when comparing figures for Scotland & England. I haven't had time to look into this in much detail tonight but, if memory serves me right, the figures for Scotland don't give a complete picture as, unlike England only about 2 thirds of Uni applications go through UCAS. I also seem to remember that there may be differences in what measures are used for poverty. 

 

There are other factors as well, Young people are often pushed into higher education to get them off the unemployment stats - & youth unemployment is slightly lower in Scotland than in the UK as a whole. 

 

There is lots of information here  http://www.sfc.ac.uk/web/FILES/Statistical_publications_SFCST062015_LearningforAllMeasuresofSuccess/SFCST062015_Learning_for_All_2015_Measures_of_Success.pdfif anyone really cares enough to study it. It shows a slow but steady increase in the uptake of higher education amongst the least advantaged groups in society.

 

So, I am not singing the praises of the SNP in this area. But neither do I think there is enough evidence to convict them of failure. I tend to believe their intentions are good but they may not have flung enough money at the problem.

[eFestivals]

We have covered this ground before & I am certainly far from convinced that the Scottish Government have done all they could in this area. (incidentally this applies equally to the previous labour/libdem administrations.

can I just point out that the SNP have been in power for eight years - longer than the tories - yet they're still blaming Labour for everything that goes wrong?

You complain about the tories doing this. You give the SNP a free pass.