The Dirty Independence Question

[russycarps]

14 minutes ago, LJS said:

Only £2bn more? 

 

You guys must be gutted.

I'm gutted that lots of idiots will read the report and still support independence regardless. Because it puts the poor of scotland in a perilous position.

 

 

Edited March 9, 2016 by russycarps

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, russycarps said:

I'm gutted that lots of idiots will read the report and still support independence regardless. Because it puts the poor of scotland in a perilous position.

This ^^^^

Indy only makes sense for the likes of LJS and his claims of why he supports it if Scotland is able to continue to fund public services at the current levels or higher ... and it just can't.

No amount of baseless hopes can cover the missing revenues. Even a recovery in the oil price won't to $120 a barrel won't do it.

[LJS]

Cos you can't fund public services and run a deficit.

[eFestivals]

Just now, LJS said:

Cos you can't fund public services and run a deficit.

not of that size, no you can't.

Does anyone have a plan to address it, or even an idea of how it might be addressed (apart from massive cuts and massive tax increases)? Nope.

FFS.

 

[LJS]

7 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

not of that size, no you can't.

Does anyone have a plan to address it, or even an idea of how it might be addressed (apart from massive cuts and massive tax increases)? Nope.

FFS.

 

We don't need a plan to address an estimated deficit under the current arrangement.

We will need a plan for a viable economic future for an independent Scotland if and when we are given the opportunity to vote for one.

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, LJS said:

We don't need a plan to address an estimated deficit under the current arrangement.

Cool, so we can keep on laughing.

 

3 minutes ago, LJS said:

We will need a plan for a viable economic future for an independent Scotland if and when we are given the opportunity to vote for one.

get back to me when someone has the first inkling of an idea for how.

No one does, apart from with massive spending cuts - far bigger than anything tory.

[Stash]

2 minutes ago, LJS said:

We will need a plan for a viable economic future for an independent Scotland if and when we are given the opportunity to vote for one.

[russycarps]

and as if by magic, an idiot appears...

It beggars belief that the raving nationalists even when smashed in the face with cast-iron indisputable facts still wriggle and squirm and spout nonsense to justify their short sighted and self centred dream.

Meanwhile, it's the poor who get bent over and fucked up the arse by unimaginable spending cuts. But hey, at least the cuts will be made by scotland rather than the english. That's absolutely the only thing that matters, right?

 

 

[Stash]

13 minutes ago, russycarps said:

and as if by magic, an idiot appears...

It beggars belief that the raving nationalists even when smashed in the face with cast-iron indisputable facts still wriggle and squirm and spout nonsense to justify their short sighted and self centred dream.

Meanwhile, it's the poor who get bent over and fucked up the arse by unimaginable spending cuts. But hey, at least the cuts will be made by scotland rather than the english. That's absolutely the only thing that matters, right?

I know, it doesn't make sense from someone who professes to actually understand the issues and care for the welfare of his countrymen. 

Either the SNP were absolutely naive in their economic plans or they were playing very fast and loose with the truth. Neither option would have me supporting them or sticking my head in the sand hoping for better times, but they are apparently still good enough for John's vote. 

[eFestivals]

Just now, Stash said:

Either the SNP were absolutely naive in their economic plans or they were playing very fast and loose with the truth.

oh, they very deliberately lied.

While the oil price predictions used in the whiote paper were OBR estimates, the part that *really* matters - oil revenues to govt - were Salmond's own fabrication, made up out of nothing, and contrary to all official and industry predictions.

Salmond took a gamble that he could get away with his big lie via the booming oil prices - but iScotland would have been deeply in the shit even if the high oil prices had remained. The high oil revenues in the last available year of GERS were always known to be an exception and not the rule.

As for the snippers, it's on thing clinging to the dream Salmond presented at the time with the best high hopes, but it's laughable to keep on clinging to it now.

[russycarps]

It is now proven beyond all doubt that the raving nationalists want independence no matter what the cost. The only thing that matters is no westminster influence on scottish affairs. The financial ruin of the country is a price worth paying for that. 

Hopefully now all the laughable lies about them wanting independence to benefit the poor can be put to bed. 

It is only about nationalism. 

 

 

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, russycarps said:

It is now proven beyond all doubt that the raving nationalists want independence no matter what the cost.

That was always very obvious. I've spent the last two years saying just that.

 

Quote

The only thing that matters is no westminster influence on scottish affairs. The financial ruin of the country is a price worth paying for that. 

Thing is, this current Sunday trading thing gets to show that Westminster cannot be ever removed from Scottish affairs.... so they're ruining the country and not even getting the thing they want most.

 

Quote

Hopefully now all the laughable lies about them wanting independence to benefit the poor can be put to bed. 

It is only about nationalism. 

it's always been about insular parochial flag-waving ... or didn't you notice how the SNP have hijacked the flag?

Even their claimed liking of the EU is utter utter bullshit - you only have to read all the exceptions they'd claimed they'd get in the white paper to see the truth.

Edited March 9, 2016 by eFestivals

[russycarps]

43 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

That was always very obvious. I've spent the last two years saying just that.

 

Thing is, this current Sunday trading thing gets to show that Westminster cannot be ever removed from Scottish affairs.... so they're ruining the country and not even getting the thing they want most.

 

it's always been about insular parochial flag-waving ... or didn't you notice how the SNP have hijacked the flag?

Even their claimed liking of the EU is utter utter bullshit - you only have to read all the exceptions they'd claimed they'd get in the white paper to see the truth.

and yet....ljs and comfy seem like decent sorts. Are they just in absolute denial about reality then? At what point do they accept scotland is better off as part of the UK? I guess they've invested too much energy into the independence dream to ever turn back now. I guess it's the same for a lot of the raving nationalists. It's now impossible for them to ever admit they were wrong.

Pride is one of the 7 deadly sins for a reason!

I suppose it is hard for us to comprehend such extreme patriotism. I just see england as the place where my billions-to-one chance of birth took place. Nothing more. They see scotland in a much more romantic light. It is a curious thing.

Edited March 9, 2016 by russycarps

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, russycarps said:

and yet....ljs and comfy seem like decent sorts. Are they just in absolute denial about reality then? At what point do they accept scotland is better off as part of the UK? I guess they've invested too much energy into the independence dream to ever turn back now. I guess it's the same for a lot of the raving nationalists. It's now impossible for them to ever admit they were wrong.

Pride is one of the 7 deadly sins for a reason!

I suppose it is hard for us to comprehend such extreme patriotism. I just see england as the place where my billions-to-one chance of birth took place. Nothing more. They see scotland in a much more romantic light. It is a curious thing.

Identity politics, innit? They have bought into something that they believe somehow defines them, and it's then all about how that becomes self-reinforcing. So behind the flag waving is something a bit more complex than just-patriotism (tho i'm sure for some it is that simple).

All the same things can be seen in any number of identity politics things that are playing out at the moment, but the biggest two are the kippers and the corbynistas. The same detachment from every inconvenient fact, they cannot be reasoned with, they cannot criticise their own side.

And that last part is very integral to it too, because everything is always the fault of 'the other'. That's now it works.

[LJS]

Thanks guys. Just finished work after a pretty shitty day & you guys have cheered me up beyond meausure with your arrogant & ignorant waffle. 

You all seem to have had fun too!

Everyone's a winner, eh?

[eFestivals]

8 minutes ago, LJS said:

Thanks guys. Just finished work after a pretty shitty day & you guys have cheered me up beyond meausure with your arrogant & ignorant waffle. 

You all seem to have had fun too!

Everyone's a winner, eh?

for all the while Scotland isn't self-financing, yep.

[eFestivals]

it's occurred to me, isn't it odd that yesterday, GERS release day, that the release of GERS got over-shadowed by a little spat in Parliament, that seems just a little bit too convenient when that HoC vote could have happened on any day  .... and in fact should have originally happened months ago but didn't, and then happened yesterday because the tories had supposedly had an SNP guarantee that turned out to not be true....?

It's almost like the tories didn't want the rest of the UK to notice GERS, and I'm sure the SNP are appreciative that their embarrassment about the white paper lies hasn't been a main UK news feature.

How very very odd.

[LJS]

32 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

it's occurred to me, isn't it odd that yesterday, GERS release day, that the release of GERS got over-shadowed by a little spat in Parliament, that seems just a little bit too convenient when that HoC vote could have happened on any day  .... and in fact should have originally happened months ago but didn't, and then happened yesterday because the tories had supposedly had an SNP guarantee that turned out to not be true....?

It's almost like the tories didn't want the rest of the UK to notice GERS, and I'm sure the SNP are appreciative that their embarrassment about the white paper lies hasn't been a main UK news feature.

How very very odd.

Yeah, it is odd. 

Probably because you made most of it up.

[eFestivals]

9 minutes ago, LJS said:

Yeah, it is odd. 

Probably because you made most of it up.

The vote was originally supposed to happen in November. It was cancelled after the SNP said they'd vote against. Not made up.

The tories claim the vote was re-scheduled for yesterday after they'd received assurances from the SNP that they'd abstain. The tories might have made that claim up, but me repeating their claim is not me making anything up.

The vote happened yesterday. Not made up.

And yesterday just so happened to be the day when GERS was announced. Not made up.

Coincidences happen, and yet it's a very unusual coincidence that it happened on one of the biggest days of the year for Scottish politics and took the focus right away from the absolutely dreadful GERS figures. Something else I've (not) made up.

Yeah, I made up a lot, most of it in fact, yeah?

You really are struggling, aren't you?

Edited March 10, 2016 by eFestivals

[russycarps]

16 hours ago, LJS said:

Thanks guys. Just finished work after a pretty shitty day & you guys have cheered me up beyond meausure with your arrogant & ignorant waffle. 

You all seem to have had fun too!

Everyone's a winner, eh?

I presume the fact that it is now clear that a complete and utter disaster for scotland was averted by the brave 55% also cheered you up. 

Or is this report just fifteen billion pounds worth of bluff and bluster?

 

Edited March 10, 2016 by russycarps

[LJS]

3 minutes ago, russycarps said:

I presume the fact that it is now clear that a complete and utter disaster for scotland was averted by the brave 55% also cheered you up. 

Or is this report just fifteen billion pounds worth of bluff and bluster?

 

Something like that, Russy.

Off to polish my sporran & oil ma bagpipes.

[eFestivals]

13 minutes ago, LJS said:

Something like that, Russy.

Off to polish my sporran & oil ma bagpipes.

maybe you'll find the missing £8bn deficit-gap money under the sporran...? .... oh no, that's the cock you've been talking.

[LJS]

2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

maybe you'll find the missing £8bn deficit-gap money under the sporran...? .... oh no, that's the cock you've been talking.

Some cock, though!

[eFestivals]

13 minutes ago, LJS said:

Some cock, though!

no, that's just another thing you've claimed contrary to the facts.

 

[LJS]

6 hours ago, eFestivals said:

no, that's just another thing you've claimed contrary to the facts.

 

rather my cock than your Bull!