The Dirty Independence Question

[eFestivals]

9 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Not sure what the etiquette is for updating on SNP bad Telegraph links but looks like Neil forgot to update his post with his latest Telegraph link. If someone from the Unionist / Brit Nat side raises an SNP bad " story " is it ok for someone from the rabid / nutty snipper side to flag up the nothing to see here link ?

Apologies Neil if you were just about to post this 

Media cover up in my opinion. SNP still bad 

 

The story isn't "SNP baaad", it's "SNP the establishment" and "SNP just like everyone else".

To laugh in the face of those who once proclaimed them a different kind of politics.

It's another one of those 180 degrees u-turn things that is now standard stuff for every snipper, them cheering the very things they used to condemn.

(I'm looking forwards to Michelle Thompson being cleared to criminality for more of the same )

[LJS]

11 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

 

The story isn't "SNP baaad", it's "SNP the establishment" and "SNP just like everyone else".

To laugh in the face of those who once proclaimed them a different kind of politics.

It's another one of those 180 degrees u-turn things that is now standard stuff for every snipper, them cheering the very things they used to condemn.

(I'm looking forwards to Michelle Thompson being cleared to criminality for more of the same )

I am totally at a loss to see what the issue is with MacNeill & Hosie. Leaving aside their sexual morality (which I am sure we can agree is their own & their families' business) there is no breach either of the the letter or the spirit of the expenses rules unless it is now an offence to have sex with someone other than your spouse.

[eFestivals]

7 minutes ago, LJS said:

I am totally at a loss to see what the issue is with MacNeill & Hosie. Leaving aside their sexual morality (which I am sure we can agree is their own & their families' business) there is no breach either of the the letter or the spirit of the expenses rules unless it is now an offence to have sex with someone other than your spouse.

We went round this a week or two back. Someone round here found reasons to condemn.

'Tis quite funny how Sturgeon's frozen Hosie out, tho.

[Comfy Bean]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

 

The story isn't "SNP baaad", it's "SNP the establishment" and "SNP just like everyone else".

To laugh in the face of those who once proclaimed them a different kind of politics.

It's another one of those 180 degrees u-turn things that is now standard stuff for every snipper, them cheering the very things they used to condemn.

(I'm looking forwards to Michelle Thompson being cleared to criminality for more of the same )

You highlighted the " story " and suggested fingers in the till. I thought it was worth the update from the commissioner. As I said at the time, I don`t believe everything I read in the Telegraph 

[LJS]

44 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

You highlighted the " story " and suggested fingers in the till. I thought it was worth the update from the commissioner. As I said at the time, I don`t believe everything I read in the Telegraph 

I think the fingers were in the Jill (or the Serena) 

[eFestivals]

1 hour ago, LJS said:

I think the fingers were in the Jill (or the Serena) 

Yep, that side of things was a least 50% of why i raised it.

Just laughing at the normality of it all. Nothing different after all, so not what was claimed.

Oh, how I was surprised. Not!

[LJS]

3 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Yep, that side of things was a least 50% of why i raised it.

Just laughing at the normality of it all. Nothing different after all, so not what was claimed.

Oh, how I was surprised. Not!

Glad you have realised that some of us snippers are actually real people.

[eFestivals]

21 minutes ago, LJS said:

Glad you have realised that some of us snippers are actually real people.

real people with an unreal message.

Yeah, I know. It's precisely why it needs pointing out.

[eFestivals]

Anyone seen the latest TNS polling? It makes grim reading for the snippers.

http://www.tns-bmrb.co.uk/press-release/support-eu-remains-strong-scotland-demand-second-independence-referendum-limited

Firstly, with the indy question, it continues with the overall trend of support for indy falling away, rather than increasing. And, in fact, given the non-real-life aspect of the question asked now outside of an indy campaign plus the don't knows it's now starting to look like a real indy vote might struggle to get 40%. That "inevitable" that some loved to say looks more and more wrong each day.

But more - worse - than that, the UK leaving the EU makes no difference, and support for a 2nd indyref if the UK is out of the EU is clearly not going to be enough to give indy victory.

What was it the Snakeman* said a couple of weeks ago? If the UK is out they'll be a new indyref within 2 years, wasn't it?

(note for comfy: 'snakeman' isn't "Ruth, the only one to talk about a 2nd indyref". That needs pointing out to someone who can invent myths on the fly).

The polling Is yet another reason why the SNP will run scared from their own 2nd indyref claims - tho of course they'll spout all the bollocks about "the people of Scotland have decided" - which they have, again and again and again. They don't want the snake oil that's on sale.

[Comfy Bean]

8 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Anyone seen the latest TNS polling? It makes grim reading for the snippers.

http://www.tns-bmrb.co.uk/press-release/support-eu-remains-strong-scotland-demand-second-independence-referendum-limited

Firstly, with the indy question, it continues with the overall trend of support for indy falling away, rather than increasing. And, in fact, given the non-real-life aspect of the question asked now outside of an indy campaign plus the don't knows it's now starting to look like a real indy vote might struggle to get 40%. That "inevitable" that some loved to say looks more and more wrong each day.

But more - worse - than that, the UK leaving the EU makes no difference, and support for a 2nd indyref if the UK is out of the EU is clearly not going to be enough to give indy victory.

What was it the Snakeman* said a couple of weeks ago? If the UK is out they'll be a new indyref within 2 years, wasn't it?

(note for comfy: 'snakeman' isn't "Ruth, the only one to talk about a 2nd indyref". That needs pointing out to someone who can invent myths on the fly).

The polling Is yet another reason why the SNP will run scared from their own 2nd indyref claims - tho of course they'll spout all the bollocks about "the people of Scotland have decided" - which they have, again and again and again. They don't want the snake oil that's on sale.

Did you read your own link ?

Not sure your numbers match with what it says but not to worry.

There will not be an Indy Ref 2 in the next few years. I`ve suggested it could be a decade or so. I`ve given my view on this timescale quite a number of times as I think you know. 

Some people can`t get used to this fact but that won`t change anything. It ain`t happening anytime soon but it will eventually. Until then we continue under Dave and the boys and the SNP will hopefully do everything they can to help keep the UK in Europe. I`m with that plan 100%. You have made your own view clear on the EU thread.... something about a wet fish as I recall 

[eFestivals]

35 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

There will not be an Indy Ref 2 in the next few years.

just a week or so ago, Salmond was expressing his certaity of one within 2 years if te uk votes out of the eu. I'm making the point that that looks very unlikely, both because a 2nd ref doesn't appear supported nor with enough support to win.

37 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

I`ve suggested it could be a decade or so.

I know, based in the idea that Scotland would be having Chinese levels of growth so that it would be affordable in 10 years. How's that going?

Sturgeon locked-in the deficit when she accepted the financial settlement, in case it passed you by? Ten years down the road nothing will have changed.

And, just because you often need reminding, Scotland's deficit is as it is *only* for the reason that Scotland is more expensive to run, as stated by the sainted one. Nowt to do with nasty Westminster.

Scotland's destiny is in Scotland's hands, but it only wants to follow Westminster even when the SNP are in charge.

 

41 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

You have made your own view clear on the EU thread.... something about a wet fish as I recall 

And you like to accuse me of making stuff up....?

I have my strong preference, but the result will be what the result will be. That's how it works in a democracy, and ultimately I'm comfortable with it as my own views have no more right to win out than anyone else's.

If the result goes against my preference, there's still parts within it both big and small I can find a way to appreciate. One will be laughing at the knots the SNP have tied themselves in by their own words, and they'll be mirth to be had however they decide to try to handle those.

I've ordered extra popcorn and everything, just on the off-chance.

 

[LJS]

11 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Anyone seen the latest TNS polling? It makes grim reading for the snippers.

http://www.tns-bmrb.co.uk/press-release/support-eu-remains-strong-scotland-demand-second-independence-referendum-limited

Firstly, with the indy question, it continues with the overall trend of support for indy falling away, rather than increasing. And, in fact, given the non-real-life aspect of the question asked now outside of an indy campaign plus the don't knows it's now starting to look like a real indy vote might struggle to get 40%. That "inevitable" that some loved to say looks more and more wrong each day.

But more - worse - than that, the UK leaving the EU makes no difference, and support for a 2nd indyref if the UK is out of the EU is clearly not going to be enough to give indy victory.

What was it the Snakeman* said a couple of weeks ago? If the UK is out they'll be a new indyref within 2 years, wasn't it?

(note for comfy: 'snakeman' isn't "Ruth, the only one to talk about a 2nd indyref". That needs pointing out to someone who can invent myths on the fly).

The polling Is yet another reason why the SNP will run scared from their own 2nd indyref claims - tho of course they'll spout all the bollocks about "the people of Scotland have decided" - which they have, again and again and again. They don't want the snake oil that's on sale.

Polls come & go & if x happens what will u think about u? polls are notoriously inaccurate. 

That doesn't mean I think a second Indy ref is inevitable if Scotland is dragged kicking & screaming out of Europe by English voters.

However, if Scotland votes 2 to 1 to remain and the leavers win, it's not difficult to imagine that would give enough momentum to the independence movement to make almost anything possible. 

I genuinely interested hope it doesn't happen as I want an independent Scotland in the eu with the rUK. 

[eFestivals]

10 hours ago, LJS said:

Polls come & go & if x happens what will u think about u? polls are notoriously inaccurate. 

yep, whenever the polls are against the parochial-ists, they claim the polls are meaningless.

That was last week's chant from the kippers, but this week the polls are in their favour and that means they're definitely going to win.

It's particularly wonderful when the same people say they'll be another indyref when opinion polling for indy is at 60%. The polls seem to mean something again..:lol:

It really is pathetic, and just shows how small-minded non-accepting people lie around the evidence.

 

10 hours ago, LJS said:

That doesn't mean I think a second Indy ref is inevitable if Scotland is dragged kicking & screaming out of Europe by English voters.

But Alex does, when he wears a dress and says he's a lesbian.

Oh, no, that was Ruth, wasn't it?

 

10 hours ago, LJS said:

However, if Scotland votes 2 to 1 to remain and the leavers win, it's not difficult to imagine that would give enough momentum to the independence movement to make almost anything possible. 

Yeah, it's not difficult to imagine all that if you also imagine the poll I linked to doesn't exist.

FFS.

And we're back again to me half-hoping I get to see that wet fish slapped round your face.

 

10 hours ago, LJS said:

I genuinely interested hope it doesn't happen as I want an independent Scotland in the eu with the rUK. 

Yeah, tet's make the poor in Scotland even poorer.

Oh, too late, that's already SNP policy in June 2016. You don't even need indy.

 

[LJS]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

yep, whenever the polls are against the parochial-ists, they claim the polls are meaningless.

That was last week's chant from the kippers, but this week the polls are in their favour and that means they're definitely going to win.

It's particularly wonderful when the same people say they'll be another indyref when opinion polling for indy is at 60%. The polls seem to mean something again..:lol:

It really is pathetic, and just shows how small-minded non-accepting people lie around the evidence.

 

But Alex does, when he wears a dress and says he's a lesbian.

Oh, no, that was Ruth, wasn't it?

 

Yeah, it's not difficult to imagine all that if you also imagine the poll I linked to doesn't exist.

FFS.

And we're back again to me half-hoping I get to see that wet fish slapped round your face.

 

Yeah, tet's make the poor in Scotland even poorer.

Oh, too late, that's already SNP policy in June 2016. You don't even need indy.

 

The only point I'm really making here, is that if there is a brexit with a large remain majority in Scotland then everything gets a bit hard to predict. There is likely to be a fair bit of general chaos about, not least within the Tory party. How that'll play out in Scotland is equally hard to predict. But to rely on a hypothetical opinion poll to predict what happens seems somewhat foolhardy.

Popcorn all round methinks...

[eFestivals]

6 minutes ago, LJS said:

The only point I'm really making here, is that if there is a brexit with a large remain majority in Scotland then everything gets a bit hard to predict. There is likely to be a fair bit of general chaos about, not least within the Tory party. How that'll play out in Scotland is equally hard to predict. But to rely on a hypothetical opinion poll to predict what happens seems somewhat foolhardy.

Popcorn all round methinks...

so you think people gave an answer to that poll while having no idea of what their opinion about it is...?

You do know that you'd be voting for Scotland to build a border - for both passports & customs - with rUK, don't you? The same thing you spent a year saying how unacceptable it would be. That sort of thing?

Yep, it's yet another of those 180 u-turn things, only proving yet again that the answer to everything Scottish is the opposite of English in some minds. But there's no chips, just lots of north sea fish.

Luckily for those you want to make poorer just like the kippers, Scotland is waking up to itself.

Edited June 10, 2016 by eFestivals

[Comfy Bean]

32 minutes ago, LJS said:

The only point I'm really making here, is that if there is a brexit with a large remain majority in Scotland then everything gets a bit hard to predict. There is likely to be a fair bit of general chaos about, not least within the Tory party. How that'll play out in Scotland is equally hard to predict. But to rely on a hypothetical opinion poll to predict what happens seems somewhat foolhardy.

Popcorn all round methinks...

I agree there is alot in the mix and it`s getting quite interesting but I`m no fan of popcorn so count me out on that front 

If.....a large % remain victory up here affects the overall outcome then I suspect some of the more right wing elements of the Conservative and Unionist Party may not be quite as keen on being " better together " which could also have implications going forward. With Labour MSP`s " allowed " to openly support and campaign for Indy then the unionists side could be significantly weakened.......in my opinion of course.

 

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

I agree there is alot in the mix and it`s getting quite interesting but I`m no fan of popcorn so count me out on that front 

If.....a large % remain victory up here affects the overall outcome then I suspect some of the more right wing elements of the Conservative and Unionist Party may not be quite as keen on being " better together " which could also have implications going forward. With Labour MSP`s " allowed " to openly support and campaign for Indy then the unionists side could be significantly weakened.......in my opinion of course.

no one in Scotland cares about being hugely poorer?

Boris bad for trying to make the UK poorer, Sturgeon a hero for trying to make Scotland poorer.

You're fucking lucky that the SNP don't believe the bollocks you think they do, and they're saving you from your own stupidity.

Oh, let's pretend being poorer doesn't matter in suppoirting an idea we joined because of people being poor.

Here's your indy dream today comfy...

 

[Comfy Bean]

I thought, you thought, that I only supported indy `cause I wanted Mrs Comfy to have diamonds on the soles of her shoes.......*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* I`m already wearing my coat 

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

I thought, you thought, that I only supported indy `cause I wanted Mrs Comfy to have diamonds on the soles of her shoes.......

Pretty much, yeah.

You spent months denying that the economic case given in the white paper were lies, if you remember.

Nowadays you're saying another ref in ten-ish years time when the economy has been built up enough to make indy affordable.

Which is of course an acceptance of the thing you'll never explicitly say, that the white paper was bullshit, and that you believed that bullshit.

It's great fun watching the mental aerobatics.

(PS: I'm not sure which version of 'mental' I'm using there )

[eFestivals]

Am loving how "a democratic outrage" has suddenly become "a bit unfair".

I'm also loving Sturgeon re-stating a currency position that ensures Scotland can't meet EU entrance criteria, and that she knows can't be shown as workable.

Have you ever stopped and wondered what's being set-up....?

[eFestivals]

2014: Labour share platform with tories in support of 'Project Fear. Labelled as a betrayal of Scotland.

2016 SNP share platform with tories in support of 'Project Fear'. Not a dickie-bird.

There goes another myth.

[LJS]

2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

2014: Labour share platform with tories in support of 'Project Fear. Labelled as a betrayal of Scotland.

2016 SNP share platform with tories in support of 'Project Fear'. Not a dickie-bird.

There goes another myth.

funnily enough, the real fact in this is that Labout have learnt their lesson from 2014 and are running their own remain campaign. The fact that Nicola appeared on one tv show hardly equates to Labours love fest with the Tories in 2014.

 

Take the blinkers off Neil.

[eFestivals]

20 hours ago, LJS said:

funnily enough, the real fact in this is that Labout have learnt their lesson from 2014 and are running their own remain campaign. The fact that Nicola appeared on one tv show hardly equates to Labours love fest with the Tories in 2014.

Take the blinkers off Neil.

So the message doesn't matter, the message must be rejected if you don't like one of the people with the message?

My blinkers have always been off.

If you want to call your countrymen utter brain-dead morons that's up to you. I credit them with far more intelligence, including the intelligence to create themselves a lie to self-justify their actions

Edited June 13, 2016 by eFestivals

[LJS]

23 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

So the message doesn't matter, the message must be rejected if you don't like one of the people with the message?

Of course the message matters. Just as who you hang about with matters. Labour have worked that out.

Quote

My blinkers have always been off.

Quote

If you want to call your countrymen utter brain-dead morons that's up to you.

It is. But I don't ...so no idea what your point is.

Quote

 

I credit them with far more intelligence, including the intelligence to create themselves a lie to self-justify their actions

Presumably that'll be when we're not punching ourselves in the face.

[eFestivals]

23 minutes ago, LJS said:

Of course the message matters. Just as who you hang about with matters. Labour have worked that out.

Labour hang out with tories over indy ref, Labour and SNP hang out with tories over EU ref.

But never let the facts get in the way of bigotry.

 

25 minutes ago, LJS said:

It is. But I don't ...so no idea what your point is.

it's brain dead to vote against something because you don't like some of the supporters.

It's only snippers who say they did that about themselves.

26 minutes ago, LJS said:

Presumably that'll be when we're not punching ourselves in the face.

punching yourselves in the face, voting against things because of some of who said it, stupidity is stupidity.