The Dirty Independence Question

[Comfy Bean]

7 hours ago, eFestivals said:

I searched google instead.

7 days ago: Dugdale rules out Scottish Labour support for a second independence referendum

Not what you claimed is this: Kezia Dugdale would allow indyref 'free vote'

So you lied and lied again, and again.

But never mid, eh? It's the only weapon in your indy armoury.

I didn`t lie. Why would I ?

Indy armoury   

 

 

[Comfy Bean]

6 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Barnett has been maintained to date.

OK Neil. I`m sure your right and that the consequentials have never been affected by any Tory smoke and mirrors. They would never do that...........

I suppose we would all consider NHS England as a stand alone body if we looked at it in a certain light, perhaps through some smoke or via some mirrors.

[eFestivals]

33 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

OK Neil. I`m sure your right and that the consequentials have never been affected by any Tory smoke and mirrors. They would never do that...........

The UK budgets for the things Scotland gets funds for are public, so I'm guessing you've checked the numbers and found some missing millions that the SNP hadn't noticed (cos they've not complained)?

In the absence of a proper grievance, don't hold yourself back.

Edited July 1, 2016 by eFestivals

[LJS]

 

[LJS]

 

15 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Can Scotland realistically act as lender of last resort for the financial services firms based in Scotland currently? Nope. A bank without backing is not bank.

And how viable would be much of Scottish industry with a 3%-50% added tariff for exports to its main market?

Of course, if the UK keeps it's free market access - and so no tariffs - there's no need for anything to change at all, which of course means Scottish prosperity if indy would take the same 16% hit that it would have taken 2 years ago and was unacceptable back then so will be unacceptable now.

You say it's guesswork and everything's changed, and yet if everything has really changed it's no guesswork for what happens in these sectors, the guesswork is the size of the hit - but it's not guesswork to know the size is always massive.

Of course it's guesswork- spend a few minutes reading the vast array of opinions - no one with any sense is predicting with any certainty what is likely to happen and lots of them are much better qualified than you or me..

Which means you  do not have any sense.

Makes sense to me. 

I can only assume it is some sort of deep seated insecurity which prevents you ever being able to admit to anything other than total certainty about the future. 

I feel quite sorry for you.

 

 

[gary1979666]

LJS, you know those Brexit, who said Stirling wouldn't nose dive if we voted to leave.  And thought everything would be back to normal with no job losses or further spending cuts down the line.

 

That's you, that is.

[eFestivals]

9 hours ago, LJS said:

 

Of course it's guesswork- spend a few minutes reading the vast array of opinions - no one with any sense is predicting with any certainty what is likely to happen and lots of them are much better qualified than you or me..

Which means you  do not have any sense.

Makes sense to me. 

I can only assume it is some sort of deep seated insecurity which prevents you ever being able to admit to anything other than total certainty about the future. 

I feel quite sorry for you.

 

 

 

If Scotland isn't prepared to back its fellow countrymen via a Scottish sovereign currency it sure as hell can't back a bank.

Or don't you understand what gives currency its value?

 

[eFestivals]

37 minutes ago, gary1979666 said:

LJS, you know those Brexit, who said Stirling wouldn't nose dive if we voted to leave.  And thought everything would be back to normal with no job losses or further spending cuts down the line.

 

That's you, that is.

Exactly this.

Plenty in Scotland have spent the last month saying how it would be madness to ignore the experts and brexit, and now plenty in Scotland are saying the English are all insane and kippers whilst planning on insanely ignoring the experts just like a kipper.

I guess it's an OK thing for nationalist Scots to do. They have a super-special exceptional insanity, so everything will be all right.

Edited July 2, 2016 by eFestivals

[lost]

Scotland in the euro would turn the country into Greece without the sun:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/02/independent-scotland-in-the-euro-like-greece-without-the-sun-stu/

[eFestivals]

6 minutes ago, lost said:

Scotland in the euro would turn the country into Greece without the sun:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/02/independent-scotland-in-the-euro-like-greece-without-the-sun-stu/

hey, Edinburgh is the Athens of the north.

 

[Comfy Bean]

5 minutes ago, lost said:

Scotland in the euro would turn the country into Greece without the sun:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/02/independent-scotland-in-the-euro-like-greece-without-the-sun-stu/

Got as far as...the right wing think tank conceded that Scotland's position would not be directly comparable.... 

But thanks for another telegraph link guys.

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Got as far as...the right wing think tank conceded that Scotland's position would not be directly comparable.... 

But thanks for another telegraph link guys.

translation: small mind finds reason to reject listening to ideas contrary to his fact-free religious beliefs. FFS comfy, wake up to yourself.

Of course Scotland's position wouldn't be directly comparible. If you compare Scotland to Greece, they're different in countless ways.

But what was the cause of Greece's crisis? A massive deficit. What's Scotland got?

While the positions are not comparable, the pain would be much the same.

[Comfy Bean]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

hey, Edinburgh is the Athens of the north.

 

Morning Neil. 

Anything to say on Osbornes announcement yesterday? 

You may recall that we had a good blether about how it would turn out on this very thread around 6 months ago.

Just shows that it's a bit daft to hang your hat on financial predictions way down the line in a world of uncertainty ;-)

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Morning Neil. 

Anything to say on Osbornes announcement yesterday? 

You may recall that we had a good blether about how it would turn out on this very thread around 6 months ago.

Just shows that it's a bit daft to hang your hat on financial predictions way down the line in a world of uncertainty ;-)

A few days ago, Osborne said they'd need to be an emergency budget. Shortly after frontrunner May says she won't allow an emergency budget Osborne relaxes rule so no emergency budget is necessary.

Can you work it out?

Osborne might be fucking up, but his fuck up is just one third of Scotland's fuck-up with the same thing.

Does the fact that Scotland is three times worse than Osborne count for nothing?

Edited July 2, 2016 by eFestivals

[Comfy Bean]

9 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

translation: small mind finds reason to reject listening to ideas contrary to his fact-free religious beliefs. FFS comfy, wake up to yourself.

Of course Scotland's position wouldn't be directly comparible. If you compare Scotland to Greece, they're different in countless ways.

But what was the cause of Greece's crisis? A massive deficit. What's Scotland got?

While the positions are not comparable, the pain would be much the same.

Fact free religious beliefs? 

I always listen to ideas contrary to my own. It's something I enjoy. I just thought it was worth pointing out a line from the article that wasn't in keeping with the telegraph headline or the reason it was posted on here.

Right wing think tank against the break up of their beloved Kingdom shocker :-)

Unsurprisingly you have also compared Scotland to Greece countless times on here. Laughable stuff.

Edited July 2, 2016 by comfortablynumb1910

[eFestivals]

6 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Just shows that it's a bit daft to hang your hat on financial predictions way down the line in a world of uncertainty ;-)

Show me a developed economy that grows at the rate of China like you claim, comfy.

We know exactly what will happen if £10bn isn't pumped from outside into the Scottish economy each year, and that's the rapid contraction of the Scottish economy (by much more than £10Bn).

That's not a prediction that's a certainty.

[Comfy Bean]

4 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

A few days ago, Osborne said they'd need to be an emergency budget. Shortly after frontrunner May says she won't allow an emergency budget Osborne relaxes rule so no emergency budget is necessary.

Can you work it out?

Osborne might be fucking up, but his fuck up is just one third of Scotland's fuck-up with the same thing.

Does the fact that Scotland is three times worse than Osborne count for nothing?

I was talking about his deficit target getting missed again. Who knew lol.

He's given you the excuse....now run with it ;-)

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

I was talking about his deficit target getting missed again. Who knew lol.

He's given you the excuse....now run with it ;-)

So what would you do to be more successful than the failure Osborne, then comfy?

Without an answer (and one that's not fantasy) you're criticising someone while agreeing you're even more shit than they are.

To be more successful than Osborne is being, the only real answer is to cut harder like an even bigger c**t. Is that you, comfy?

Meanwhile, I call squirrel. Osborne being shit here has got fuck all relevance for Scotland. The UK has a just-about manageable deficit, but Scotland does not.

[LJS]

50 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Show me a developed economy that grows at the rate of China like you claim, comfy.

We know exactly what will happen if £10bn isn't pumped from outside into the Scottish economy each year, and that's the rapid contraction of the Scottish economy (by much more than £10Bn).

That's not a prediction that's a certainty.

I smell a squirrel.

[Comfy Bean]

Leaving my religious beliefs aside for a moment, I have always said that an indy Scotland would take a different path to the one chosen by England. I am trying to leave a left leaning or right leaning path out of it and going with different.

The Tories have one seat here and the path they chose for us was one of deep and fast cuts as opposed to small and slow cuts balanced with increased investments.

We continue to see the gap between rich and poor widen.

As Neil has correctly pointed out, the UK finances are in a mess so I`m not sure how continuing on the Tory path is good for any of us.

A Labour or SNP Govt running an indy Scotland remains my hope for a better future. As Belle and Sebastian tell us at the end of the attached vid, perhaps we could be the torch bearers for something different than Tory rule from Westminster ( I mean for all of the UK ). 

I have always said that how " different " the path would be for us is open to debate. Some on here said that politically we are no different so politically indy is pointless. I will continue to point to the 1 Tory MP and now the EU result as proof of Scotland being a bit different. I have always stated that I believe Scots would be perfectly capable of running their own country via the Govt they choose to elect.

I don`t agree with Neil`s figures as they make no sense to me when we do not have a clue what year or even decade we are talking about. 

I had thought personally that Indy was unlikely for around a decade. I think the recent eu events may give the SNP an opportunity that they may see as too good to miss.

If the starts align and they go for it sooner than I had expected then they will have my support.

Small sample I know but a good few of my pals voted no as they hoped / expected Milliband would win the ge. I`ve always thought that the Labour voters hold the key next time round. There is evidence that enough of them have changed sides.

Sturgeon and Harvie in my view would be a formidable team and with soft support from Labour who would stand in their way next time round ?

If there is a next time of course ..................

 

 

Edited July 2, 2016 by comfortablynumb1910

[Comfy Bean]

53 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Osborne being shit here has got fuck all relevance for Scotland. 

Not sure if serious 

[LJS]

2 hours ago, gary1979666 said:

LJS, you know those Brexit, who said Stirling wouldn't nose dive if we voted to leave.  And thought everything would be back to normal with no job losses or further spending cuts down the line.

 

That's you, that is.

Hmm. I tend to think that , while there has been some negative impacts on Sterling (not sure its had any effect in Stirling!) & the stock markets but there has been no emergency budget, the scale of this impact is nothing like what the remain campaign was predicting, and although it is far too early to know with any degree of certainty, there seems to be a widespread feeling amongst those who only a few days ago were predicting Armageddon, that, surprise surprise, things might not be so bad at all.

My view has always been that the claims of the remain campaign were implausible & ridiculous and that whilst leaving the EU would have negative impacts, they would be nothing like as bad as they had claimed.

Similarly with all the crazy claims made by Better Together last time & no doubt to be repeated again this time - I did not deny that there would be likely to be some short term negative impacts on Scotland from going it alone & I certainly was not one of those who believed we would instantly be better off, but as with the remain campagin these claims were wildly exaggerated.

 

That's me that is

[LJS]

1 hour ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Leaving my religious beliefs aside for a moment, I have always said that an indy Scotland would take a different path to the one chosen by England. I am trying to leave a left leaning or right leaning path out of it and going with different.

The Tories have one seat here and the path they chose for us was one of deep and fast cuts as opposed to small and slow cuts balanced with increased investments.

We continue to see the gap between rich and poor widen.

As Neil has correctly pointed out, the UK finances are in a mess so I`m not sure how continuing on the Tory path is good for any of us.

A Labour or SNP Govt running an indy Scotland remains my hope for a better future. As Belle and Sebastian tell us at the end of the attached vid, perhaps we could be the torch bearers for something different than Tory rule from Westminster ( I mean for all of the UK ). 

I have always said that how " different " the path would be for us is open to debate. Some on here said that politically we are no different so politically indy is pointless. I will continue to point to the 1 Tory MP and now the EU result as proof of Scotland being a bit different. I have always stated that I believe Scots would be perfectly capable of running their own country via the Govt they choose to elect.

I don`t agree with Neil`s figures as they make no sense to me when we do not have a clue what year or even decade we are talking about. 

I had thought personally that Indy was unlikely for around a decade. I think the recent eu events may give the SNP an opportunity that they may see as too good to miss.

If the starts align and they go for it sooner than I had expected then they will have my support.

Small sample I know but a good few of my pals voted no as they hoped / expected Milliband would win the ge. I`ve always thought that the Labour voters hold the key next time round. There is evidence that enough of them have changed sides.

Sturgeon and Harvie in my view would be a formidable team and with soft support from Labour who would stand in their way next time round ?

If there is a next time of course ..................

 

 

Excellent points, Comfy as always & a great song.

I think he point you make about many no voters banking on a Miliband victory is spot on. It is hard to imagine any no voters being able to bank on a Labour victory this time round. I know we live in exceedingly volatile times but those voting no this time will in all probability be staring at 10 years of Tory rule outwith the EU.

There is also the question of who will be at the heart of the BT2 campaign - Last time round the Labour party did the bulk of the work. There must be serious question marks over their desire or ability to do the same again. Ruthie Tank Commander will do her best but her appeal is limited. 

If the SNP are able to hold to some sort of realistic prospect of EU membership, I find it hard to see anything other than a Yes win. 

 

(p.s. my daughter was up on stage with B&S as their gig at Glasgow Uni a couple of weeks back!!!)

[LJS]

2 hours ago, lost said:

Scotland in the euro would turn the country into Greece without the sun:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/02/independent-scotland-in-the-euro-like-greece-without-the-sun-stu/

I am sure you will forgive me if I take anything form the Centre for Policy Studies with a bucket of salt.

Here's what sits right at the top of their website.

[zahidf]

sturgeon is bravely and openly pro immigration. for that reason, i have a lot more respect for her than for any of the self serving, pandering politicians from othet parties.