The Dirty Independence Question

[LJS]

2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Just to demonstrate this point a bit further....

Off-shore wind is about double the cost of onshore wind, when both use identical technology for generation. The difference in cost is essentially the different costs of mounting the turbine in the ground, where pouring a concrete base at sea is a much harder task and consequently cost.

So if we say that on-shore wind is half the price of off-shore wind (which it is, roughly), you can see that the mounting base is half the cost of those off-shore costs for wind, and the cost of that base with nothing on it is about the same (for each unit of electric produced) as Hinckley C.

So even if tidal stream came down in price to match off-shore wind (which it wont!), it's still poor value against nuke generation, while also being a poorer source of power because it doesn't generate constantly.

It's a useful addition to generation methods as part of an overall plan, but it'll never be a major part because of the high costs.

The cost of onshore wind power has fallen from $108 (£70.20) per megawatt hour (mWh) a year ago to $85 today, as they become more efficient and cheaper to build.

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/wind-power-now-the-cheapest-source-of-electricity-but-the-government-continues-to-resist-onshore-a6685326.html

So if wind power (which is a pretty mature technology) can get about 20% cheaper in 1 year, why would you think a similar reduction in the cost of tidal power is unlikely?

Whilst there ate no certainties, it seems reasonable to assume that a much greater than 20% reduction is likely over time.

Although you are right to point out that tidal power won't run 24/7, it will run for most of that time having 2 short lulls each day. These have the beauty of being entirely predictable, years in advance.

It seems to me the holy grail for all renewables is a cost effective means of energy storage. 

http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/the-long-term-storage-challenge-batteries-not-included

If they can get that sorted, then the sky's the limit.

(Not sure the guy who's making methane is going in the right direction, mind you!)

[eFestivals]

by the nature of tidal stream, the generation units are never going to be as cheap to build or service as off-shore wind turbines ... and wind turbines are more efficient too.

Those facts alone mean tidal stream will never become the prime renewable generating method, and will instead be a useful but minor part of a whole system  

The limited number of possible sites marginalise it further.

It's going to be a bit-part - tho a useful one - but nothing more.

[eFestivals]

i see another of the flies has dropped, again to fraud.

It truly is a different kind of politics.

(hey, maybe all MPs are on the fiddle, but its only the snippers who end up talking with plod ... perhaps the difference is just being crap at it? )

Yeah, i know, he says he can clear it all up, tho so did McGarry and Thompson.

The oddest thing of all is just how slow the centralised SNP-controlled Scottish plod is in getting SNP MPs to court. :

[LJS]

4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

i see another of the flies has dropped, again to fraud.

Allegedly.

4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

It truly is a different kind of politics.

Thank f@ck I never said it was.

4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

(hey, maybe all MPs are on the fiddle, but its only the snippers who end up talking with plod ... perhaps the difference is just being crap at it? )

I think the SNP are merely playing catch up. Plenty of "mainstream" politicians have helped the police with their enquiries in the past.

4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Yeah, i know, he says he can clear it all up, tho so did McGarry and Thompson.

& you never know , they might yet...

4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

The oddest thing of all is just how slow the centralised SNP-controlled Scottish plod is in getting SNP MPs to court. :

The wheels of justice frequently run slowly...on both sides of the Tweed.

Personally, I hope he's innocent. He's a breath of fresh air. He has a pony tail, so I reckon he must be OK.

 

[eFestivals]

53 minutes ago, LJS said:

& you never know , they might yet...

possible, tho probably only if McGarry gets a jury of indy supporters.

54 minutes ago, LJS said:

The wheels of justice frequently run slowly...on both sides of the Tweed.

Personally, I hope he's innocent. He's a breath of fresh air. He has a pony tail, so I reckon he must be OK.

and there was me thinking just a party card was enough for you to hand out free passes.

[zero000]

More "me, me, me" bollocks from Sturgeon today. Truly embarrassing posturing. May's far too shrewd to take the bait.

[Comfy Bean]

28 minutes ago, zero000 said:

More "me, me, me" bollocks from Sturgeon today. Truly embarrassing posturing. May's far too shrewd to take the bait.

In my view, sturgeon was positioning rather than posturing. We all know the main goal of her party.

The audience she's playing to whether yes or no aren't as convinced on May as you are.

Suppose we will find out at the next GE.

Would imagine May will be more focused on brexit for a while to give Scotland much thought.

 

[LJS]

39 minutes ago, zero000 said:

More "me, me, me" bollocks from Sturgeon today. Truly embarrassing posturing. May's far too shrewd to take the bait.

Really? Care to expand on how her speech  had anything to do with "me, me  me" 

You are Neil & I claim my 5.5 Euros.

[zero000]

48 minutes ago, LJS said:

Really? Care to expand on how her speech  had anything to do with "me, me  me" 

You are Neil & I claim my 5.5 Euros.

By proposing that Scotland receive additional powers to strike international trade deals and have more control over immigration. Both absolute non-starters. Instead of uniting with fellow politicians from the remain campaign to keep the UK in the single market, she's attempting to exploit the situation for her own nationalistic ends. 

[LJS]

6 hours ago, zero000 said:

By proposing that Scotland receive additional powers to strike international trade deals and have more control over immigration. Both absolute non-starters. Instead of uniting with fellow politicians from the remain campaign to keep the UK in the single market, she's attempting to exploit the situation for her own nationalistic ends. 

If you had listened to her speech, you would have heard this...

"But we will also work to persuade others - Labour, Liberals and moderate Tories - to join us in a coalition against a hard Brexit: not just for Scotland, but for the whole UK."

That came before any talk of referendums or separate deals for Scotland. A clear majority in Scotland's voted to remain in the EU. Nicola would be failing in her duty as first minister if she did not make every effort to limit the damage that brexit will cause to Scotland.

Of course you might say it is selfish to put the interests of Scotland first. I've got news for you. That's her job.

[lost]

Speaking to friends abroad they seem genuinely perplexed at this surge in nationalism across the country and that we seem to want to keep continually kicking ourselves in the head and completely dismantle our economy doing it, they all bought into the cool britannia image but that atmosphere around London 2012 currently feels like it was on a different planet.

[eFestivals]

I notice the unionists have been banging on about indy again, they just won't shut up about it.

Tho Dave Sturgeon has to bang on about a referendum she doesn't want to keep the nutters in her party happy, and after the vote Nicola Farage doesn't accept she lost the vote.

Those unionsists are mad, aren't they?

[eFestivals]

1 hour ago, LJS said:

If you had listened to her speech, you would have heard this...

"But we will also work to persuade others - Labour, Liberals and moderate Tories - to join us in a coalition against a hard Brexit: not just for Scotland, but for the whole UK."

That came before any talk of referendums or separate deals for Scotland. A clear majority in Scotland's voted to remain in the EU. Nicola would be failing in her duty as first minister if she did not make every effort to limit the damage that brexit will cause to Scotland.

Of course you might say it is selfish to put the interests of Scotland first. I've got news for you. That's her job.

Oh look, it's changed again.

It used to be an outrage that Scotland has a democratic deficit where the UK could take Scotland out of the EU against its will, but now only a hard brexit is an outrage.

So Sturgeon insists that Scotland swap it's democratic deifict with 10% control from Scotland and swap it for a democratic deficit with just 1% control from Scotland, cos that'll fix that democratic deficit.

And then there's that summer conversation of only-silence which convinced no one at all, the bill before parliament that gets watered down each time she opens her mouth, the amazing shrinking indy mandate of the Scottish people replaced by Sturgeon telling you that you can be sure she'll ignore you, and her promise to do what's best for Scotland even if what's best for Scotland is staying within the UK - which is where she's so hugely likely to end up.

Those more sophisticated better-engaged Scots, eh? Long live the Scottish Herring Party.

[LJS]

12 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I notice the unionists have been banging on about indy again, they just won't shut up about it.

Tho Dave Sturgeon has to bang on about a referendum she doesn't want to keep the nutters in her party happy, and after the vote Nicola Farage doesn't accept she lost the vote.

Those unionsists are mad, aren't they?

Your point is? 

In a shock move leader of SNP reveals she is pro-Indy.

This takes nothing away from the fact that the main people who have been banging on about indyref2 are Nicola Davidson, Nicola Dugdale and Nicola Rennie.

Ain't I hilarious playing with people's names?

Morning Neil.

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, LJS said:

Your point is? 

In a shock move leader of SNP reveals she is pro-Indy.

This takes nothing away from the fact that the main people who have been banging on about indyref2 are Nicola Davidson, Nicola Dugdale and Nicola Rennie.

Ain't I hilarious playing with people's names?

Morning Neil.

No, in not-a-shock move, the leader of the SNP says she doesn't want independence and that Scotland is better in the UK.

You weren't listening, you were too busy stuffing herrings down yer throat.

[LJS]

7 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

No, in not-a-shock move, the leader of the SNP says she doesn't want independence and that Scotland is better in the UK.

You weren't listening, you were too busy stuffing herrings down yer throat.

I was listening enough to know that she didn't promise a new referendum. 

You, clearly have been attentively listening to the voices in your head again 

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, LJS said:

I was listening enough to know that she didn't promise a new referendum. 

You, clearly have been attentively listening to the voices in your head again 

No, I *WAS* listening enough to know that she didn't promise a referendum. FFS.

Now, why isn't it full steam ahead? And why do you think it's going to be?

Again, she's said she'll do what's best for Scotland. Don't you remember me commenting last time she said that, and where it's going to end up...?

This is the death spiral, you've just not noticed yet.

Too busy with herrings, I'd say.

Edited October 14, 2016 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

maybe it's not herrings. maybe its Glasgow Smokies.

Yeah, Glasgow Smokies, a proper Scottish version.

 

[LJS]

18 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

No, I *WAS* listening enough to know that she didn't promise a referendum. FFS.

Yeah I'd worked that out. It was the other bollocks I was berating you about.

Quote

Now, why isn't it full steam ahead? And why do you think it's going to be?

Cos we Nick's no daft & I'm sure she'll ken when the time's right.

Quote

Again, she's said she'll do what's best for Scotland. Don't you remember me commenting last time she said that, and where it's going to end up...?

This is the death spiral, you've just not noticed yet.

The patient seems remarkably healthy at present. When do you expect this death spiral to start.

Quote

Too busy with herrings, I'd say.

I love herring. It is possibly my favourite fish.

[LJS]

20 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

maybe it's not herrings. maybe its Glasgow Smokies.

Yeah, Glasgow Smokies, a proper Scottish version.

 

Am I missing something? 

Anyway Arbroath smokies are nearly as tasty as herring.

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, LJS said:

Cos we Nick's no daft & I'm sure she'll ken when the time's right.

Are you resigned to no new indyref ever then?

I suspect she'll have to go for it anyway.

4 minutes ago, LJS said:

The patient seems remarkably healthy at present. When do you expect this death spiral to start.

It's started. How quick the spiral is is dependent on how far heads are up arses, and whether you notice her saying that it's best for Scotland to remain in the UK.

5 minutes ago, LJS said:

I love herring. It is possibly my favourite fish.

I bet you prefer them smoked.

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, LJS said:

Am I missing something? 

Anyway Arbroath smokies are nearly as tasty as herring.

smoked fish is smoked fish, but I guess one of those two is more appropriate for Scotland.

[LJS]

Just now, eFestivals said:

Are you resigned to no new indyref ever then?

No.

Just now, eFestivals said:

I suspect she'll have to go for it anyway.

I suspect you are right.

Just now, eFestivals said:

It's started. How quick the spiral is is dependent on how far heads are up arses, and whether you notice her saying that it's best for Scotland to remain in the UK.

She didn't.

Just now, eFestivals said:

I bet you prefer them smoked.

No, but kippers are very good especially with a poached egg on top.

[eFestivals]

PS: what happened to "the people of Scotland will decide"?

Yesterday Dave Sturgeon-Glasgow-Smokie made clear that everything's on her say-so.

Edited October 14, 2016 by eFestivals

[LJS]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

PS: what happened to "the people of Scotland will decide"?

Yesterday Dave Sturgeon-Glasgow-Smokie made clear that everything's on her say-so.

The people of Scotland have effectively decided by electing an SNP government with a mandate for an injured if we get dragged out of Europe kicking & screaming , and then voting to remain in Europe