The Dirty Independence Question

[eFestivals]

7 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Specifically on your post, I believe Sturgeon is strongly against brexit and trump ( try google ) and I don't imagine she's pals with better together Nigel. I doubt many in Scotland would give him the time of day.

and?

She's also strong on division, *exactly* like Farage and Trump.

 

7 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

UKIP have less MPs up here than the Tories.

Because,,,,?

You have your own UKIP in the SNP - you know, someone who puts Scotland at the front of the queue with her hand out, just as Farage wants the UK like that.

9 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

more than half of Folks down your way now vote for the Tories or UKIP.

and half up your way vote the us-us-us Scottish equivalent.

Get back to me when you've got as much concern about poverty in Middleboro as you have in Glasgow, instead of happily robbing Middleboro and cosying up to a leader who boasts how Scotland is the richest part of the UK at the expense of Middleboro.

[Comfy Bean]

4 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

it's very normal for a speech to have differences from a pre-released version, because it's a work in progress until the speech is given.

Meanwhile, the pre-release and the speech he gave didn't make the slur you're going round telling people it did.

Why don't you have the courage to be honest and the brain to manage it?

I'm aware of how the process around prereleasing a speech works.

I fully accept he is entitled to make last minute changes.

My point was more around him softening the tone.

If he thinks it's racist say it. My point was why are you not criticising him for changing it.

You agree with the racist theme which is fine. Kez was given the chance on BBC to distance herself from Khans remarks. She danced round it. 

Would you not prefer if folk came right out and made the racist claims like you do ?

That was the point I was trying to make.

For the record, I haven't been going around telling anyone what Labour are saying, you made that up. For a start I'd be too embarrassed.

 

[LJS]

19 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

and?

She's also strong on division, *exactly* like Farage and Trump.

 

Because,,,,?

You have your own UKIP in the SNP - you know, someone who puts Scotland at the front of the queue with her hand out, just as Farage wants the UK like that.

and half up your way vote the us-us-us Scottish equivalent.

Get back to me when you've got as much concern about poverty in Middleboro as you have in Glasgow, instead of happily robbing Middleboro and cosying up to a leader who boasts how Scotland is the richest part of the UK at the expense of Middleboro.

Where is middleboro? Is it in lord of the rings?

[LJS]

29 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

it's very normal for a speech to have differences from a pre-released version, because it's a work in progress until the speech is given.

Meanwhile, the pre-release and the speech he gave didn't make the slur you're going round telling people it did.

Why don't you have the courage to be honest and the brain to manage it?

  "those who try to divide us on the basis of whether we’re English or Scottish" ? 

[eFestivals]

12 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

My point was more around him softening the tone.

right, so LJS spends a week moaning about the tine, and then you criticise him for softening it?

It's almost like there's nothing he could do which would get approval.... apart from if he backed indy, of course.

So fucking transparent.

 

12 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

If he thinks it's racist say it. My point was why are you not criticising him for changing it.

He doesn't think its racist. If he did, he'd have said it. A first time, and then probably more times. Rather than not having said it or implied it or anything about it.

What is you find hard about words? Are you the living demonstration of that better Scottish education?

[eFestivals]

9 minutes ago, LJS said:

  "those who try to divide us on the basis of whether we’re English or Scottish" ? 

What don't you understand about what you support?

[eFestivals]

15 minutes ago, LJS said:

Where is middleboro? Is it in lord of the rings?

oh look, there's someone who's scared to discuss facts.

It's not because he doesn't want the greed of the indy-ists exposed, of course.

Edited March 5, 2017 by eFestivals

[LJS]

6 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

oh look, there's someone who's scared to discuss facts.

It's not because he doesn't want the greed of the indy-ists exposed, of course.

According to you the UK government will have £8bn or £10 bn or £15bn or some other bn to spend on the poor of Middleboro & Hobbiton & Bree, once we leave. 

And of course, down your way they keep voting for parties who love throwing money at the poor, don't they?

[LJS]

13 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

What don't you understand about what you support?

I understand exactly what I support and why. It's folk like Sadiq Khan and you who claim to know better from your ideal vantage point 400 mikes away, that don't understand the nature of the Scottish Indy movement.

[Comfy Bean]

17 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

 

He doesn't think its racist. If he did, he'd have said it. 

Right ok. I agree with him. I don't think it's racist either.

So you disagree with Khans words. Glad we cleared that up :-)

Back to my original point...

Why are you not criticising Khan for not calling out the snp and Indy supporters who are racist and want Indy as they hate the English?

You have openly and specifically called me a racist and Tory many times. As I said, atleast you are clear and open about your opinions. 

 

[Comfy Bean]

6 minutes ago, LJS said:

According to you the UK government will have £8bn or £10 bn or £15bn or some other bn to spend on the poor of Middleboro & Hobbiton & Bree, once we leave. 

And of course, down your way they keep voting for parties who love throwing money at the poor, don't they?

Exactly this. Neil keeps criticising the no voters for wanting to keep stealing money from the pockets of poor people living in England while calling Indy supporters selfish !

Hes all over the place here.

[eFestivals]

40 minutes ago, LJS said:

According to you the UK government will have £8bn or £10 bn or £15bn or some other bn to spend on the poor of Middleboro & Hobbiton & Bree, once we leave. 

And of course, down your way they keep voting for parties who love throwing money at the poor, don't they?

Fact is, if that money wasn't being sent to Scotland, it would add more benefit to England no matter what was done with it.

And if it's such a cuddly carey-sharey Scotland, why was your First Minister - and you - demanding every last penny you could get, when your first minister proudly boasts Scotland as the richest part of the UK?

The carey-sharey stuff is just pretence, that doesn't stand up against the facts. It's no less money grabbing as a tory, it's about money for 'me'. As i've always said, it's about the money.

Talking of which, I used to know someone who guaranteed that for indyref2 the SNP would have a financial plan to bridge the deficit gap so spending wouldn't need cutting, and even said they'd vote against indy if the SNP didn't ... but who now seems to be suggesting they won't have that financial plan, but will happily still support indy. 

It's almost as tho division is more important than all other things. Fancy that.

Edited March 5, 2017 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

38 minutes ago, LJS said:

I understand exactly what I support and why. It's folk like Sadiq Khan and you who claim to know better from your ideal vantage point 400 mikes away, that don't understand the nature of the Scottish Indy movement.

he gets it 100%.

It's about division before all other things.

I know people who used to claim to support indy to help the poor but now welcomes tory cuts that gets Scotland closer to being able to financially self-support, and so love those cuts to the poor. I know people who used to say they'd vote against indy if it had to make cuts, but now wants Scotland's poor shat upon.

Care for the poor? Nah, fuck em. It's about me-me-me before all other things including intelligence.

[eFestivals]

39 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Why are you not criticising Khan for not calling out the snp and Indy supporters who are racist and want Indy as they hate the English?

I'd have thought it was Sturgeon's job to do that first. She never has, despite it being a strong part of the indie movement.

I've mentioned it before, how she'll call it out in other parties but not in her own.

Even Jezza betters her about this. 

Fancy, Sturgeon being bettered by Jezza. 

[eFestivals]

37 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Exactly this. Neil keeps criticising the no voters for wanting to keep stealing money from the pockets of poor people living in England while calling Indy supporters selfish !

Hes all over the place here.

Nope, that's just your tiny mind.

The no voters are welcome to the money. They're not moaning about or lying about it.

You say you don't need English money while money-grabbing for every last English penny ... every last penny that you insist you don't need because Scotland will be glorious without that English money that you desperately want.

And then you say you want to help the poor while stealing from the poor and making the poor poorer, while boasting about how rich you are.

And you reckon it's me that's all over the place? PMSL

You, LJS and Sturgeon lined up together and demanded every last penny, *only* on the basis of 'because Scotland'.  The poor didn't get a second thought, even when mentioned to you. You deserved it 'because Scotland'.

Me me fucking me. Just like every tory.

[Comfy Bean]

18 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I'd have thought it was Sturgeon's job to do that first. She never has, despite it being a strong part of the indie movement.

I've mentioned it before, how she'll call it out in other parties but not in her own.

Even Jezza betters her about this. 

Fancy, Sturgeon being bettered by Jezza. 

I agree that it is part of Sturgeons role but I was talking about your view and how you personally disagree with Khan.

I was crediting you for having the courage of your convictions. 

You regularly accuse Sturgeon and the Indy supporters of being racist English haters. Is Khan a moron for not agreeing with you and calling out the snp ?

Hes wrong or your wrong !

[Comfy Bean]

30 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Fact is, if that money wasn't being sent to Scotland, it would add more benefit to England no matter what was done with it.

Agreed. Let's get on with it then. The Scottish Govt can then distribute the dough and prioritise and invest as they see fit. An end to Barnett and the consequentials and a share of debts can then let us all go our own path.

Like in England, if voters living in Scotland aren't happy with their government then they can deal with them at the ballot box. 

No more 1 Tory mp but Tories and their priorities pulling the strings.

Scotland already has its own government and things like education and health are devolved.

The Brit nats can keep their flag suits and we can continue to all be friends and neighbours :-)

I appreciate you think Sturgeon will bottle it but I think it's happening.

[LJS]

4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Fact is, if that money wasn't being sent to Scotland, it would add more benefit to England no matter what was done with it.

And if it's such a cuddly carey-sharey Scotland, why was your First Minister - and you - demanding every last penny you could get, when your first minister proudly boasts Scotland as the richest part of the UK?

Does she? I've certainly not heard her say it recently and I would be very surprised if that claim were to play much of a part in the forthcoming campaign.

4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

The carey-sharey stuff is just pretence, that doesn't stand up against the facts. It's no less money grabbing as a tory, it's about money for 'me'. As i've always said, it's about the money.

For you, it clearly is. Some of the rest of us care more about other issues.

4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Talking of which, I used to know someone who guaranteed that for indyref2 the SNP would have a financial plan to bridge the deficit gap so spending wouldn't need cutting, and even said they'd vote against indy if the SNP didn't 

Just to keep you right, I have never said my vote is dependent on anything. I don't need persuaded that an Independent Scotland would be financially viable as you well know because you regularly tell me i'm an idiot for believing it: so I don't need the SNP to come up with any plan to convince me. I find it hard to envisage circumstances in which I would not vote Yes in a referendum held in the next few years. What I think you are getting confused about is that I have said that the SNP will have to come up with some sort of credible financial plan if they are going to convince enough no voters to change to Yes. 

4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

but who now seems to be suggesting they won't have that financial plan, but will happily still support indy. 

No I still think they will need a plan and I suspect Sturgeon knows that too. 

4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

It's almost as tho division is more important than all other thing

 I am not in favour of division at all. e.g. I am not in favour of dividing us from the EU. I am not in favour of dividing EU citizens from UK citizens. I am not in favour of dividing ourselves fom the rest of Europe when it comes to dealing with refugees. I am not in favour of politicians who sow division based on race or country of origin.

 I am in favour of living in a country that plays a full part in the world. Unfortunately the UK is not that country. The small division of drawing a line on a map is a price well with to say farewell to a  divisive right wing isolationist UK

 

[LJS]

4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

he gets it 100%.

It's about division before all other things.

I know people who used to claim to support indy to help the poor but now welcomes tory cuts that gets Scotland closer to being able to financially self-support,

Here's your choice Neil. Yo unow accept that the (onshore) deficit gap in Scotland has been steadily narrowing. But you say this is because of Tory cuts. You also say government spending in Scotland has not been cut. So, what have the Tories cut? Your hair? your toenails? You can't have it both ways? have the Tories cut spending in Scotland or have they  not? And if they have how has government spending not reduced? These are truly magic cuts.

4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

and so love those cuts to the poor.

behave!

4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

 I know people who used to say they'd vote against indy if it had to make cuts,

Do you? where are these people? How many are there. 

4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

but now wants Scotland's poor shat upon.

I certainly don't want Scotland's poor shat on, or Middleboro's poor or anyone's poor shat on.

4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Care for the poor? Nah, fuck em. It's about me-me-me before all other things including intelligence.

As always let's end with a gratuitous insult because anyone who dares to disagree with Neil is clearly an idiot.

[LJS]

4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Nope, that's just your tiny mind.

The no voters are welcome to the money. They're not moaning about or lying about it.

You say you don't need English money while money-grabbing for every last English penny ... every last penny that you insist you don't need because Scotland will be glorious without that English money that you desperately want.

And then you say you want to help the poor while stealing from the poor and making the poor poorer, while boasting about how rich you are.

And you reckon it's me that's all over the place? PMSL

You, LJS and Sturgeon lined up together and demanded every last penny, *only* on the basis of 'because Scotland'.  The poor didn't get a second thought, even when mentioned to you. You deserved it 'because Scotland'.

Me me fucking me. Just like every tory.

This is a bit rich from the man who championed Tory cuts, praised Osborne for giving some money to the poor but taking twice as much away and is relaxed about the UK gov turning its back on vulnerable child refugees,

You'll excuse me if I choose to take my lectures from someone else, Neil

[LJS]

5 hours ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Agreed. Let's get on with it then. The Scottish Govt can then distribute the dough and prioritise and invest as they see fit. An end to Barnett and the consequentials and a share of debts can then let us all go our own path.

Like in England, if voters living in Scotland aren't happy with their government then they can deal with them at the ballot box. 

No more 1 Tory mp but Tories and their priorities pulling the strings.

Scotland already has its own government and things like education and health are devolved.

The Brit nats can keep their flag suits and we can continue to all be friends and neighbours :-)

I appreciate you think Sturgeon will bottle it but I think it's happening.

It's OK Comfy, Ruth will sort it out

Davidson: "Scottish Tories are ready to be the party of government"

Ruth Davidson told the Scottish party faithful in Glasgow that her party will be “up for a fight” and that her party is the “government in waiting.”

https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/10458/davidson-scottish-tories-are-ready-be-party-government

 

 

[LJS]

11 hours ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

I agree that it is part of Sturgeons role but I was talking about your view and how you personally disagree with Khan.

I was crediting you for having the courage of your convictions. 

You regularly accuse Sturgeon and the Indy supporters of being racist English haters. Is Khan a moron for not agreeing with you and calling out the snp ?

Hes wrong or your wrong !

Excellent work Comfy.

I think though we should give some credit to Neil for his staunch defence of free speech. Although Neil knows for a fact that Scottish Nationalists are racists and fascists, he has been prepared to defend to the hilt Sadiq Khan's right to (sort of) say that they aren't racists. Well at least not much.

Good on you Neil. And well done comfy for pointing out the selfless and heroic way that Neil is prepared to champion the views of those he disagrees with. Its what makes Britain Great.

and all we have is  a flag to wrap ourselves in

 

Edited March 5, 2017 by LJS

[eFestivals]

20 hours ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

but I was talking about....

the one and only subject of Scottish indy where you feel the facts are in your favour...? Yeah, I know.

It's why you won't talk about the properly important stuff and instead prefer a row about Khan. That's how weak you know the indy case to be.

What to talk about deficit? How about currency, and how the Euro is obligatory with EU membership?

No? How odd.

[eFestivals]

20 hours ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

The Scottish Govt can then distribute the dough and prioritise and invest as they see fit. An end to Barnett and the consequentials and a share of debts can then let us all go our own path.

and your path will be one with much less money to spend on public services - so the Scottish Govt can prioritise, but not invest.

Only cut, cut and cut again, by much more than a tory on steroids.

[eFestivals]

16 hours ago, LJS said:

I've certainly not heard her say it recently

OMFG

Talk about diversion.