The Dirty Independence Question

[eFestivals]

16 hours ago, LJS said:

Some of the rest of us care more about other issues.

but never about how dreams are paid for.

[eFestivals]

16 hours ago, LJS said:

I have never said my vote is dependent on anything.

you said you wouldn't support a plan for indy that involved cuts.

And now you love those cuts. :lol:

[eFestivals]

16 hours ago, LJS said:

No I still think they will need a plan and I suspect Sturgeon knows that too. 

she does. And there's only one plan that can make the numbers work.

Cutting like a tory on steroids.

[eFestivals]

16 hours ago, LJS said:

I am not in favour of division at all.

says the man committed to voting for division before all other options.

 

[eFestivals]

16 hours ago, LJS said:

 I am in favour of living in a country that plays a full part in the world.

apart from in NATO, as you've already made clear. 

Along with how you made clear you'll be happy to have NATO's protection while not paying for it.

I'm sure the rest of the world will see that as a full part.

[LJS]

11 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

the one and only subject of Scottish indy where you feel the facts are in your favour...? Yeah, I know.

It's why you won't talk about the properly important stuff and instead prefer a row about Khan. That's how weak you know the indy case to be.

What to talk about deficit?

I have regularly.

11 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

How about currency,

Done that too.

11 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

and how the Euro is obligatory with EU membership?

No it's not. It's a bit like NATO spending. Obligatory to sign up for it. In practice, not obligatory at all.

11 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

No? How odd.

 

[LJS]

13 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

you said you wouldn't support a plan for indy that involved cuts.

No, I didn't

13 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

And now you love those cuts.

No I don't.

[LJS]

13 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

she does. And there's only one plan that can make the numbers work.

Cutting like a tory on steroids.

Thanks for your opinion.

[LJS]

11 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

apart from in NATO, as you've already made clear. 

Along with how you made clear you'll be happy to have NATO's protection while not paying for it.

I'm sure the rest of the world will see that as a full part.

I'm genuinely unsure whether I would view NATO's role in the world as a positive one overall. 

[eFestivals]

16 hours ago, LJS said:

Yo unow accept that the (onshore) deficit gap in Scotland has been steadily narrowing. But you say this is because of Tory cuts. You also say government spending in Scotland has not been cut. So, what have the Tories cut? Your hair? your toenails? You can't have it both ways? have the Tories cut spending in Scotland or have they  not? And if they have how has government spending not reduced? These are truly magic cuts.

What's been cut?

Defence spending: no impact on the SG's budget, but reduction in all-of-Scotland's spending.
Welfare payments: no impact on the SG's budget, but reduction in all-of-Scotland's spending.
'National services': no impact on the SG's budget, but reduction in all-of-Scotland's spending.
the 'block grant': as cut this is made back up via new borrowing powers, there's no reduction in the SG's spending powers.

The SG claims they're having to make cuts in 2017-18 because of nasty Westminster. It's a lie. They're purely-Scottish cuts advocated and done by people in Scotland for effect onto people in Scotland, and lied about by people in Scotland. Is that the better Scotland you're wanting?

How much do these add up to? About 6% of GDP has been shaved off Scottish spending.
(tho some of that reduction is caused by GDP growth without a matched spending growth, and where rUK GDP growth is outperforming Scottish GDP growth)

If/when UK deficit reaches 0% of GDP, Scotland will still have a deficit of 6%-7%, and will still need to cut it down to around 2% as a minimum - *extra* cuts beyond what Westminster would do.

[eFestivals]

Just now, LJS said:

I'm genuinely unsure whether I would view NATO's role in the world as a positive one overall. 

well, that's an argument, but your sole given reason for leaving NATO was because you want to think it's a cut that can be made to help balance the books without impacting onto Scottish wealth - but it's not. It wouldn't be a 'free' cut.

[eFestivals]

16 hours ago, LJS said:

I certainly don't want Scotland's poor shat on, or Middleboro's poor or anyone's poor shat on.

and yet when I pointed out what YOU were advocating was shitting on the likes of the poor of Middleboro, your response was? "I don't care, I want every penny for scotland that I think it deserves".

Very carey-sharey, that was. :lol:

It's fuck all like the carey-sharey you falsely claim, and everything Trump-like.

 

16 hours ago, LJS said:

As always let's end with a gratuitous insult because anyone who dares to disagree with Neil is clearly an idiot.

Not necessarily an idiot.

Quite often it's a very deliberate and knowing choice to impoverish others for Scotland's benefit, just as the lie that accompanies it is.

So not an idiot, just a greedy c**t that's not the carey-sharey you claim.

Which is precisely why Scotland's poor will be shat-on post indy. Any govt and people who are happy to rob the poor when they don't need to - like they are right now - to benefit the richer types are certainly going to do it and do it much more when circumstances force it upon an independent Scotland.

[eFestivals]

16 minutes ago, LJS said:

No it's not. It's a bit like NATO spending. Obligatory to sign up for it. In practice, not obligatory at all.

and not fulfilling your agreed obligations can never be the "full role in the world" you want to imagine Scotland as having.

[LJS]

8 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

well, that's an argument, but your sole given reason for leaving NATO was because you want to think it's a cut that can be made to help balance the books without impacting onto Scottish wealth - but it's not. It wouldn't be a 'free' cut.

That's not my argument at all.

[eFestivals]

16 hours ago, LJS said:

This is a bit rich from the man who championed Tory cuts, praised Osborne for giving some money to the poor but taking twice as much away and is relaxed about the UK gov turning its back on vulnerable child refugees,

You'll excuse me if I choose to take my lectures from someone else, Neil

I see the better Scotland will be full of your lies. 

I pointed out the books have to be balanced, for the UK and for Scotland. Consistent. I pointed out that the best solution to current troubles are higher wages and fewer benefit payments. consistent.

And i'm also someone who recognises you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs, while you say any and all pain in any direction is inexcusable ... when done by tories in Westminster while advocating the same and much more for Scotland.

Anyone might think there's xenophobia in the mix of that. Go on, tell me how you're xenophobia-free, and i'll tell you how you're intelligence-free.

Edited March 6, 2017 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

9 hours ago, LJS said:

Excellent work Comfy.

I think though we should give some credit to Neil for his staunch defence of free speech. Although Neil knows for a fact that Scottish Nationalists are racists and fascists, he has been prepared to defend to the hilt Sadiq Khan's right to (sort of) say that they aren't racists. Well at least not much.

Good on you Neil. And well done comfy for pointing out the selfless and heroic way that Neil is prepared to champion the views of those he disagrees with. Its what makes Britain Great.

and all we have is  a flag to wrap ourselves in

 

oh look, there's that (lying) argument again, the only one of Scottish indy where the facts do fall in Scotland's favour.

Which has got nothing to do with why it's the only thing snipers want to be discussed, of course.

Deficit: go on, tell me where the cuts will fall.

Currency:

- go on, tell me what currency you'll use

- go on, tell me what money will be used to support it (you can even do that comparison with other small European countries while you're at it, as you love that so much, if you're brave enough with real facts)

- and go on, tell me how you're good Europeans absolutely committed to the EU project and how you're going to lie to the EU about how you love the Euro. 

 

Edited March 6, 2017 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

11 minutes ago, LJS said:

That's not my argument at all.

that was the argument you previously gave for why iScotland shouldn't join NATO.

I see that you're now trying to present it as a moral argument. Fair enough then, just remember to sell it to the rest of the country and see how they back it.

Cos I seem to remember that there's a reason why the SNP suddenly became pro-NATO.

[Comfy Bean]

22 hours ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Right ok. I agree with him. I don't think it's racist either.

So you disagree with Khans words. Glad we cleared that up :-)

Back to my original point...

Why are you not criticising Khan for not calling out the snp and Indy supporters who are racist and want Indy as they hate the English?

You have openly and specifically called me a racist and Tory many times. As I said, atleast you are clear and open about your opinions. 

 

 

21 hours ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

I agree that it is part of Sturgeons role but I was talking about your view and how you personally disagree with Khan.

I was crediting you for having the courage of your convictions. 

You regularly accuse Sturgeon and the Indy supporters of being racist English haters. Is Khan a moron for not agreeing with you and calling out the snp ?

Hes wrong or your wrong !

Cat got your tongue on this ? 

You also ducked sharing your views on Scottish Labour`s latest plan for the future. A federal UK !

 Kez is all over it and claims to have UK wide support. It`s their big move against the SNP and Greens indy plans and the Tory and Unionist party`s campaign to save the brave, powerful union. It`s the ace up Kez`s sleave apparently so we now have 3 options  Pick a side, any side !

Is Khan right that there is no racism or hatred behind the vast majority of the Indy movement or should he be more open in his views that it is based on blood and soil, hatred of the English, racism etc like your good self ? 

Are Scottish Labour right that carving up England is a good plan ( though not supported by England )....some would say it`s creating borders ? 

 

[Comfy Bean]

54 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

And i'm also someone who recognises you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs, while you say any and all pain in any direction is inexcusable ... when done by tories in Westminster while advocating the same and much more for Scotland.

Anyone might think there's xenophobia in the mix of that. Go on, tell me how you're xenophobia-free, and i'll tell you how you're intelligence-free.

Hatred, racism, facism, some nazi references and now you bring xenophobia into the mix.

Have you been reading the comments under those newspaper articles again ?

Idiots on both sides of course 

 

[eFestivals]

10 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

 

Cat got your tongue on this ? 

i've already addressed it. Your lack of intelligence in recognising it is your own problem.

 

10 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

You also ducked sharing your views on Scottish Labour`s latest plan for the future. A federal UK !

i've already addressed it. Your lack of intelligence in recognising it is your own problem.

 

10 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Is Khan right that there is no racism or hatred behind the vast majority of the Indy movement

oh look, a lie.

10 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

or should he be more open in his views that it is based on blood and soil, hatred of the English, racism etc like your good self ? 

oh look, a lie.

Either you're dumb beyond belief, or all you have are lies. 

 

[Comfy Bean]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

i've already addressed it. Your lack of intelligence in recognising it is your own problem.

 

i've already addressed it. Your lack of intelligence in recognising it is your own problem.

 

oh look, a lie.

oh look, a lie.

Either you're dumb beyond belief, or all you have are lies. 

 

Ok, thanks for clearing that up.

 

[eFestivals]

6 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Hatred, racism, facism, some nazi references and now you bring xenophobia into the mix.

All of which are present within indy, and all of which no snippers calls out.

Even Jezza is better than Sturgeon on this. Jezza, for fucks sake. :lol:

 

6 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Idiots on both sides of course 

yep. But you don't have to be the best idiot of all, do you, by spreading lies?

How about a conversation about something which matters: what are you going to cut to save £9bn?

and then came only silence.

A better country, but no one wants to talk about how it will be better, and it's full of liars. :lol:

[LJS]

45 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

All of which are present within indy, and all of which no snippers calls out.

Even Jezza is better than Sturgeon on this. Jezza, for fucks sake.

 

yep. But you don't have to be the best idiot of all, do you, by spreading lies?

I'm not aware of any lies from comfy. Sadly, the same cannot be said for you.

45 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

How about a conversation about something which matters: what are you going to cut to save £9bn?

Nothing, because we don't need to save £9bn. We need to reduce the deficit but unlike your tesconomics we understand that crude cuts are a very inefficient way to achieve this.

45 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

and then came only silence.

A better country, but no one wants to talk about how it will be better, and it's full of liars.

It will be better because it won't be run by an increasingly right wing & isolationist Tory party.

 

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, LJS said:

I'm not aware of any lies from comfy.

he's tried suggesting that Khan said all snippers were indisputably racist. 

Which is the only bit of ground where the facts are actually positive towards indy. 

Which is why there's nothing else about indy you want to talk about.

[eFestivals]

6 minutes ago, LJS said:

Nothing, because we don't need to save £9bn.

there's a £9bn deficit which needs to be covered, and the only option is cuts.

 

Quote

We need to reduce the deficit but unlike your tesconomics we understand that crude cuts are a very inefficient way to achieve this.

because artificially inflating an economy beyond what it can support with borrowed money works so well, just look at Greece....?

The option is cuts and only cuts. 

The fact that you feel the need to lie about it only ensures that indy will be a disaster. Farage won on a lie too, which makes him your bessie mate.

Edited March 6, 2017 by eFestivals