The Dirty Independence Question

[eFestivals]

Nicola Sturgeon wants Scotland to keep powers it doesn’t currently have so it can return them one day to the body that actually has them.

 

 

[eFestivals]

9 hours ago, LJS said:

This is an astonishingly bile filled, opinionated, factless rant against sturgeon and the SNP. 

is it?

sturgeon didn't say "The Brexit process has emboldened a now powerful Westminster faction, which perhaps never fully embraced devolution, and which now sees an opportunity to rein in the Scottish Parliament…. [T]here is not yet any real guarantee from the Tories that the Scottish Parliament and the other devolved administrations won’t be stripped of some of their powers." ....?

You'll have to show me the facts to back up Sturgeon's claim as you're so very concerned about 'factless' things.

And it's not correct that Sturgeon "wants Scotland to keep powers it doesn’t currently have so it can return them one day to the body that actually has them"?

It appears to be. Scotland doesn't have fishing powers, but Sturgeon says she wants them, and says she wants Scotland in the EU where the EU will have fishing powers and not Scotland.

I've got to say, i'm impressed with how succinctly he's summed that up. Perfect!

[LJS]

18 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Khan didn't call anyone racist.

Can you say that truth? If you can, we can move on.

If you can't, show me where he said snippers were racist.

Or shut the fuck up with everything about Khan, the only thing you want discussed becauqse you know you lose on all other discussions.

 

I asked you a question first. You're still running from it, but when you've answered it I'll answer yours.

I asked you to tell me what relevance does "Scotland is a country" have to any discussion about the EU or English cities? 

Yes, we know you and Sturgeon think Scotland is a country. We know it so very much there's not need to say it.

So why say it? What relevance or point did it have in the discussion where you heard her say it within a discussion of english cities and EU?

You seem shy of addressing this question. Is there a reason why?

Comedy gold, Neil.

[eFestivals]

6 minutes ago, LJS said:

Comedy gold, Neil.

he's never answered the question, of what relevance "Scotland is a country" had in the convo where he saw Sturgeon say it.

That she thinks its a country isn't it. Everyone knows that's what she thinks, and if she thinks others have to be told it, she's a patronising little shit as bad as any tory.

So tell me what relevance is had in that convo.

But you never do, because you know what she meant. 

[eFestivals]

PS: you seem shy of still talking deficit, and seem keen to move onto something else.

 

[Comfy Bean]

34 minutes ago, LJS said:

Comedy gold, Neil.

Yeah........

I think I`m in a time warp here 

On Khan, we`ve moved from Comfy said Khan said all snippers were indisputably racist ( I didn`t ). To Neil saying Khan doesn`t think it`s racist, to me saying I agree with Khan, I don`t think it`s racist either to Neil saying can you show me where Khan said Snippers were racist 

In the mix of course is the fact that the only person who actually accuses Snippers of being racist is of course Neil ?! Who therefore disagrees with Khan and the vast majority of people on the planet. 

Then, a fortnight after I provided half a dozen links / quotes / articles where Sturgeon speaks about Cities, Countries, respect for how others vote etc and makes no claims at all about any " greater right to indy " we have some drivel about I haven`t addressed the question.

Neil, if you remember, you didn`t have time at that moment to provide evidence of your claims around what Sturgeon said. From memory you moved on quickly from my post with all the links you said it would be difficult for me to find ( it took 60 seconds ). As I said at the time, for balance I also googled what you claimed Sturgeon said but we both know what that turned up 

In fairness, my memory is not that great, but you`ll need to leave it more than a couple of weeks before you try and re-invent a conversation where your point turned out to be made up nonsense. I accept that you will now move goal posts, call me a moron or bring up something around gers or the uk deficit etc.

There is more chance of a brick wall admitting they were wrong 

 

[eFestivals]

Just now, comfortablynumb1910 said:

To Neil saying Khan doesn`t think it`s racist, to me saying I agree with Khan

Good. You can shut up about Khan then, and tell your fellow snippers he said nothing for anyone to take offence about.

But you won't, will you? :lol:

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

In the mix of course is the fact that the only person who actually accuses Snippers of being racist is of course Neil ?! Who therefore disagrees with Khan and the vast majority of people on the planet. 

I've merely pointed out that there's a not-insignificant racist element. Go on, tell me I'm wrong.

You only have lies. It's why you have to lie about what I've said and what Khan said.

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Then, a fortnight after I provided half a dozen links / quotes / articles where Sturgeon speaks about Cities, Countries, respect for how others vote etc and makes no claims at all about any " greater right to indy " we have some drivel about I haven`t addressed the question.

PMSL.

None of the links you provided were her saying it in the context of where you said you'd seen her use it.

And you won't say what she meant when you did hear her say it in relation to the EU & English cities. Why is that?

 

Edited March 7, 2017 by eFestivals

[Comfy Bean]

48 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

she's a patronising little shit as bad as any tory.

 

 Sizeist ( again ) 

I`ve no idea how a woman who holds true to her principles on things like nukes etc get`s under your skin so much. Is it because you have now abandoned some of the things she still stands for ?

Sturgeon is on record as saying she was inspired to enter politics because of Thatcher. I think you have never quite grasped what she means in that statement.

You resort here to calling her a Tory proving time and time again that you spectacularly miss her point.

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

you said it would be difficult for me to find ( it took 60 seconds ).

what you provided wasn't any of the relevant occasions. :rolleyes:

There's a reason why it wasn't, and why you're lying about it now.

 

[eFestivals]

Just now, comfortablynumb1910 said:

 Sizeist ( again ) 

I`ve no idea how a woman who holds true to her principles on things like nukes etc get`s under your skin so much. Is it because you have now abandoned some of the things she still stands for ?

Sturgeon is on record as saying she was inspired to enter politics because of Thatcher. I think you have never quite grasped what she means in that statement.

You resort here to calling her a Tory proving time and time again that you spectacularly miss her point.

What relevance does "Scotland is a country" have to a conversation about Scotland, English cities, and a (perhaps) special deal with the EU for some areas of the UK?

What is it about that question which scares you so much?

 

[Comfy Bean]

On 20/02/2017 at 10:24 AM, eFestivals said:

Nicola also says "Scotland is a country" to claim a greater right to independence than other places. 

 

 

On 20/02/2017 at 10:26 AM, eFestivals said:

Here's that question again:-

what is the 'civic' when Sturgeon claims a greater right to new-nationhood with the words "Scotland is a country"?

 

On 20/02/2017 at 0:12 PM, eFestivals said:

that was cock up, which I managed to copy and so cock-up twice. Ignore, don't be a twat by ignoring me saying it was cock-up. 

 

Scotland being a country gives it no greater civic right to independence than a place which isn't currently thought of as a country.

 

On 20/02/2017 at 0:32 PM, eFestivals said:

 

What is the civic in demanding a greater right to independence via "Scotland is a country"?

 

 

On 20/02/2017 at 1:16 PM, eFestivals said:

the 'greater' right to independence is what she claims when she says "Scotland is a country". 

 

 

On 20/02/2017 at 1:18 PM, eFestivals said:

demanding a greater right to independence via "Scotland is a country"?

 

 

On 20/02/2017 at 2:02 PM, eFestivals said:

 Sturgeon's use of that phrase to claim a greater right to independence. 

What is the civic in demanding a greater right to independence via "Scotland is a country"?

Unless you can tell me with an answer that stands up, the blood and soil stands as true.

 

 

On 20/02/2017 at 2:09 PM, eFestivals said:

What is the civic in demanding a greater right to independence via "Scotland is a country"?

Unless you can tell me with an answer that stands up, the blood and soil stands as true.

 

On 20/02/2017 at 6:28 PM, eFestivals said:

 

Sturgeon uses that phrase to claim a greater right to independence.

 

On 21/02/2017 at 6:47 AM, eFestivals said:

Sturgeon replied "Scotland is a country" to indicate a greater right to indy than a city.

 

On 21/02/2017 at 9:09 AM, eFestivals said:

It means she's demanding a greater right to indy than cities because of Scotland's history, Scotland's past history as a blood and soil tribal entity.

 

On 21/02/2017 at 10:40 AM, eFestivals said:

She says it all the time.

The context in which she says it gives it away. She's claiming a greater right to indy via Scotland's blood and soil past-history.

 

On 21/02/2017 at 10:43 AM, eFestivals said:

Sturgeon has said "Scotland is a country" to claim a greater right to indy.

[Comfy Bean]

On 21/02/2017 at 8:41 PM, comfortablynumb1910 said:

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/opinion/nicola-sturgeon-scotland-will-lead-brexit-fight-to-stay-in-single-market-1-8226175

There is a strong democratic justification for that approach. After all, 48 per cent of the electorate voted to remain in the EU. So did two of the four nations of the UK. And Sheffield is a perfect example of how close the referendum was in much of England. This city voted to leave by 51 to 49 per cent – only 6,000 votes separated the two sides........

I completely accept that there was a narrow majority in Wales and England for leaving the European Union. However I don’t believe it can be concluded that there was a majority anywhere for leaving the single market. Although a hard Brexit might appease some members of the UK Cabinet, it would damage trade, reduce employment and cause unnecessary hardship.

And for that reason – and this is the second strand of our approach – the Scottish Government is also investigating whether distinctive solutions are possible for Scotland.

I’m well aware that the scale of immigration in England makes it – understandably – a bigger topic of debate than in Scotland. And people may often have legitimate concerns about whether increased immigration affects their own access to public services and housing.

 

 

On 21/02/2017 at 8:42 PM, comfortablynumb1910 said:

I respect the result in England but every single MP from the SNP in the House of Commons represents a constituency that voted to remain and therefore they have a duty to represent how their constituents voted.

“All of that underlines the fact that we are currently in unprecedented circumstances. And so all of us - in Scotland, across the UK and throughout the EU – should approach discussions with creativity, flexibility, and a genuine desire to secure the best outcomes.

Read more at: http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/sturgeon-seeks-english-allies-to-shape-brexit-1-8224244

 

On 21/02/2017 at 8:56 PM, comfortablynumb1910 said:

AM: What do you say to those people across the UK who voted to leave the EU who listen to you now and say she’s just a wrecker. She’s trying to overturn the democratic vote of the entire UK?

NS: Well I’m not trying to do that but I would ask people to equally understand that I’m the First Minister of Scotland, Scotland is a country, we’re part of the UK right now but we voted to remain and I’ve got a duty, particularly given that this is not some academic debate, this is a debate that has real implications for jobs and living standards of people the length and breadth of the country. I’ve got an obligation to seek to protect Scotland’s interests and that’s what I’m trying to do. So I’m compromising. But at the end of the day I’m not going to sit back while Scotland is driven over a hard Brexit cliff edge with all the implications for jobs and the type of country we are that that would have.

AM: Theresa May is watching, one message to her very clearly, what do you say?

NS: Don’t disregard Scotland because it’s not acceptable to do so. You said during the independence referendum that Scotland was then a full partner in the UK. It’s now time to prove that and how you respond to the sensible compromise consensus proposals that the Scottish government has put forward will tell as much, possibly everything we need to know about whether Scotland really is an equal partner or whether that’s just rhetoric.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/08011701.pdf

 

On 21/02/2017 at 9:07 PM, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Ms Sturgeon said: "After a campaign that has been characterised in the rest of the UK by fear and hate, my priority in the days, weeks and months ahead will be to act at all times in the best interests of Scotland and in a way that unites, not divides us.

"Let me be clear about this. Whatever happens as a result of this outcome, England, Wales and Northern Ireland will always be Scotland's closest neighbours and our best friends - nothing will change that.

"But I want to leave no-one in any doubt about this. I am proud of Scotland and how we voted yesterday.

"We proved that we are a modern, outward looking and inclusive country and we said clearly that we do not want to leave the European Union.

"I am determine to do what it takes to make sure these aspirations are realised."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36621030

 

On 21/02/2017 at 9:30 PM, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Sturgeon said the intervention was “not an attempt to frustrate the will of the people of England and Wales. But it is part of our overall attempt to protect the will of the Scottish people. My priority is to seek to protect Scotland’s interests and part of that is to protect the voice of the Scottish parliament.”

She added: “Let me be clear: I recognise and respect the right of England and Wales to leave the European Union. But the democratic wishes of the people of Scotland and the national parliament of Scotland cannot be brushed aside as if they do not matter.

 

[Comfy Bean]

16 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

What relevance does "Scotland is a country" have to a conversation about Scotland, English cities, and a (perhaps) special deal with the EU for some areas of the UK?

What is it about that question which scares you so much?

 

The question doesn`t scare me. If anything it bores me !

NS is the FM of Scotland, she mentions Scotland quite a bit. I`ve also seen her mention England and also cities in all parts of the world.

Today........ you have removed the part from your question about the " greater right to indy " you claim she is always saying. 

The reason for that is crystal clear as you know  The only person always saying that is you.

You are determined to force a narrative of hate and blood and soil. Fortunately, there are very few ( relatively speaking ) like you.....on both sides of course.

[eFestivals]

13 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

The question doesn`t scare me. If anything it bores me !

and yet you post endless guff to avoid answering it. Is posting the irrelevant endlessly more interesting than answering a simple question once?

There's a reason why you won't answer the simple question.

That reason is that you know I'm right.

[eFestivals]

14 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Today........ you have removed the part from your question about the " greater right to indy " you claim she is always saying. 

You're either the world's biggest liar or too stupid to deserve a vote.

I've never claimed she's said that. 

I've claimed that's what her "Scotland is a country" is being used to imply on some - only some - of the occasions she says it.

Because saying "Scotland is a country" has absolutely no relevance to whether anywhere in the UK should get a special EU deal unless it's being said to claim a greater right to a special deal.

A greater right via history is what? It's nothing civic, that's purely about the self-determined. It's about the blood and soil of Scotland's past.

[Comfy Bean]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

and yet you post endless guff to avoid answering it. Is posting the irrelevant endlessly more interesting than answering a simple question once?

There's a reason why you won't answer the simple question.

That reason is that you know I'm right.

In your mind you are right. That much I do know. The quotes from you and NS and the context around them are there in black and white. We can all make up our own mind.....again 

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

In your mind you are right. That much I do know. The quotes from you and NS and the context around them are there in black and white. We can all make up our own mind.....again 

But they're not the right quotes.

Is that because you're stupid or deceptive?

What relevance does "Scotland is a country" have to a conversation about Scotland, English cities, and a (perhaps) special deal with the EU for some areas of the UK?

[Comfy Bean]

21 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Today........ you have removed the part from your question about the " greater right to indy " you claim she is always saying. 

 

 

3 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

You're either the world's biggest liar or too stupid to deserve a vote.

I've never claimed she's said that. 

 

Are you taking the piss ?....................................

I genuinely hope you were laughing when you posted this earlier. Here are a selection of just some of the times you claimed she`s said that........

Perhaps your account was hacked ?

I`ll ignore the bit about me being stupid and a liar and won`t hold on for my apology  

 

On 20/02/2017 at 10:24 AM, eFestivals said:

Nicola also says "Scotland is a country" to claim a greater right to independence than other places. 

 

 

On 20/02/2017 at 10:26 AM, eFestivals said:

Here's that question again:-

what is the 'civic' when Sturgeon claims a greater right to new-nationhood with the words "Scotland is a country"?

 

On 20/02/2017 at 0:12 PM, eFestivals said:

that was cock up, which I managed to copy and so cock-up twice. Ignore, don't be a twat by ignoring me saying it was cock-up. 

 

Scotland being a country gives it no greater civic right to independence than a place which isn't currently thought of as a country.

 

On 20/02/2017 at 0:32 PM, eFestivals said:

 

What is the civic in demanding a greater right to independence via "Scotland is a country"?

 

 

On 20/02/2017 at 1:16 PM, eFestivals said:

the 'greater' right to independence is what she claims when she says "Scotland is a country". 

 

 

On 20/02/2017 at 1:18 PM, eFestivals said:

demanding a greater right to independence via "Scotland is a country"?

 

 

On 20/02/2017 at 2:02 PM, eFestivals said:

 Sturgeon's use of that phrase to claim a greater right to independence. 

What is the civic in demanding a greater right to independence via "Scotland is a country"?

Unless you can tell me with an answer that stands up, the blood and soil stands as true.

 

 

On 20/02/2017 at 2:09 PM, eFestivals said:

What is the civic in demanding a greater right to independence via "Scotland is a country"?

Unless you can tell me with an answer that stands up, the blood and soil stands as true.

 

On 20/02/2017 at 6:28 PM, eFestivals said:

 

Sturgeon uses that phrase to claim a greater right to independence.

 

On 21/02/2017 at 6:47 AM, eFestivals said:

Sturgeon replied "Scotland is a country" to indicate a greater right to indy than a city.

 

On 21/02/2017 at 9:09 AM, eFestivals said:

It means she's demanding a greater right to indy than cities because of Scotland's history, Scotland's past history as a blood and soil tribal entity.

 

On 21/02/2017 at 10:40 AM, eFestivals said:

She says it all the time.

The context in which she says it gives it away. She's claiming a greater right to indy via Scotland's blood and soil past-history.

 

On 21/02/2017 at 10:43 AM, eFestivals said:

Sturgeon has said "Scotland is a country" to claim a greater right to indy.

 

 

 

[Comfy Bean]

9 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

But they're not the right quotes.

Is that because you're stupid or deceptive?

 

 Define the difference between " the right quotes " and just " quotes ".

Desperate stuff.

I`m using the wrong type of quotes is certainly an amusing response that I didn`t see coming. I thought you would have only went with the insults and maybe something around gers.

As I said, it`s all there in black and white ( again ). Maybe you are right and I hacked your account with these wrong quotes. We can go with that if you like. Happy to move on.

[eFestivals]

12 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Are you taking the piss ?....................................

No, I'm pointing out that I've never claimed she's explicitly said those words.

You're now claiming I have to avoid addressing what i've really said.

Which is exactly the same thing as the lies about Khan, because you didn't want to face what he'd really said.

Lies lies and lies. That's you. That's scottish indy.

Now, can you try to address what I've asked?

23 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

What relevance does "Scotland is a country" have to a conversation about Scotland, English cities, and a (perhaps) special deal with the EU for some areas of the UK?

 

 

[eFestivals]

10 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

 Define the difference between " the right quotes " and just " quotes ".

Desperate stuff.

You say the word 'the' a lot. Is every use of it the same?

The desperate stuff is your lies here. Just because Sturgeon says "Scotland is a country" a lot, it's not said with the same purpose every time. 

The question is simple, but you keep avoiding it.

What relevance does "Scotland is a country" have to a conversation about Scotland, English cities, and a (perhaps) special deal with the EU for some areas of the UK?

[LJS]

2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

PS: you seem shy of still talking deficit, and seem keen to move onto something else.

 

If I had a pound for every word I'd written about the deficit, I could pay it off. But yeah, I'm reluctant to talk about it.

 

[eFestivals]

8 minutes ago, LJS said:

If I had a pound for every word I'd written about the deficit, I could pay it off. But yeah, I'm reluctant to talk about it.

but not reluctant to lie about it.

Lies are all indy has.